300 Blackout 'Quiz' - not impressed yet with the round...

[AJMD429]

I bought three barrels and/or uppers in 300 Blackout to 'go with' my Encore barrel, and plan to fiddle with them and see which one is most functional with the variety of loads out there, and most accurate, then trade the others for something else.

This is from my first Range Session a ways back - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48448

I initially couldn't get much factory ammo, but found a few hundred primed new brass cases to load, but hadn't acquired the complete set of barrels/uppers to test yet. Now that there is some factory ammo available, I decided to test them all out for function and accuracy with the factory ammo (220 grain Remington, allegedly 'subsonic').

Will post pictures shortly.

[cas]

It's very strange. I've been shooting the 300 Whisper in contenders for 15 plus years now and I love the little round. But.... I don't get everyone else's fascination with it. There's a whole lot of buzz and hype and misconception out there, people buying them and they don't even know why.

It bored me to tears in the AR15 and I sold it right quick way back when. I think it would make a great short range weapon, but it don't use my AR's as weapons (just like most everyone else (they may think about it, practice for it, but they don't actually use it as a weapon) so it gained no ground there.


It's more efficient in an say an 8-12" barrel than a 30-30, but that really doesn't apply to most folks.

[MrMurphy]

I have a friend who uses it professionally (suppressed SBR in executive protection) and also hunts with it, and he likes it.

But he's also using it how it was intended to be used. Short barrel, suppressed or unsuppressed at short and medium ranges.


Lot of other people don't have a clue.

[AJMD429]

Yep. I originally was just wanting something for my Encore that would enable me to use my Mystic (.357 Max on down, loadable with heavy-for-caliber bullets), on a 16" barrel. Then decided to get some 'AR' barrels for it and experiment.

I think it is at it's best using a 'pistol' barrel with integral suppressor, whether on an AR platform or whatever. I'm not excited about it on any of the AR setups I've created, but I have to admit I'm really disappointed that it doesn't perform in the Encore.

The Firearms:

(Note: The Mystic suppressor was used on each firearm when chronographed and targeted.)




The Chronograph Data:



The Targets:

(Note: There are a couple 'penciled-in' bullet-holes relocated' due to mid-session changes in aiming-point.)

1.


2.


3.


4.

[cas]

You know I've had probably 7 different 300/221 barrels from 5 different makers, 10, 11, 12, 16 inches, a couple of twist rates, and none of them were very accurate, relatively speaking. I've had one or two that were sub MOA, but just. (compared to other contender barrels I've owned that were genuinely 1/2 MOA shooters, a couple even less.)

[3leggedturtle]

How do they headspace?

Off of the tiny shoulder or

Off the case mouth.

[Thunder50]

Have a carbine barrel for my AR, but I shoot my 24" barreled bolt gun in 300 BLK more. Full speed with a 125-130gr bullet. Might keep the AR in the blackout, but might rechamber the bolt gun to 30 TCU. One thing nice about the bolt gun, is being out at our range and hitting our 7" X 7" gong @500yds with the round. People have their 300 win mags, trying to hit the gong and making alot of noise, then eventually, someone wanders over and asks what I am shooting. Show them the round. They have a hard time believing that I can hit the gong and the gun makes so little noise.

I guess they think the louder it is, the better its supposed to shoot!!

[AJMD429]

One thing nice about the bolt gun, is being out at our range and hitting our 7" X 7" gong @500yds with the round.

Now that would be nice accuracy, and the kind of thing my Encore platform attains with other chamberings.

I think I'll try some supersonic rounds, handloads, and so on, and see what I can get the Encore to do. THAT is my main '300 Blackout' goal anyway.

Then, if whatever that load winds up being, shoots functionally and with halfway-decent accuracy in one of the AR's, so be it.

It won't be the first time I've 'invested' in a particular cartridge or firearm, and decided it wasn't for me, and moved on to other things. . .

[rogn]

From looking at the targets it appears that not all the bullets were flying "point on center". Some of the accuracy/precision issues may be the lack of stability, hence the beginning "keyholes". Target #4 appears to have the greatest offenders.

[AJMD429]

From looking at the targets it appears that not all the bullets were flying "point on center". Some of the accuracy/precision issues may be the lack of stability, hence the beginning "keyholes". Target #4 appears to have the greatest offenders.

I'll have to go back and check the different twist rates.

The targets are :

• 1 - firearm C
  2 - firearm B
  3 - firearm E
  4 - firearm A

The Encore (E) was shot from a bipod, vs. the others off a sandbag, and I could never shoot worth a darn using a bipod, so that may explain target 3's lack of accuracy. I'd think the Encore capable of about anything with the proper load, and I think it is 1:7.

The first target, other than the one high flyer, is excellent, and ironically is the pencil-thin barrel and open sights. Not only that, but the front sight was only held on by the rear attachment (the red plastic ribbon is going under the loose front attachment). I'd planned to figure out some sort of sleeve for the sight so it would work with the thin barrel.

[firefuzz]

I've got (had) two 300 Blackout setups.... a Remington AAC SD 700 with a 16", 1-7" twist, suppressor ready barrel and (had) an AR15 15" LAR side-charging upper with a 16" 1-8" twist Stoner barrel. I decided to let go of the AR platform as I'll never replace my .223/5.56 guns in a LEO/bad times mode (I have way too much ammo on hand and reloading supplies to think about trying to build up to that level in another caliber)

I got into the Blackout for a short-range, very quiet, special purpose rifle. I use an Yankee Hill Machine 7.62 Stainless Phantom suppressor, heavy but effective. I never intend to shoot super's in it.

The AR setup was my first venture into the 300 Blk and was a fairly accurate gun, just over an inch at 100yds with Remington 220gr sub-sonic and I never even really got the barrel broke in, less than 200rds. The rifle functioned fine after about the first 10rds and was reasonably accurate, 1.25 or less @ 100yds all day long, and I thought very quiet. I got rid of it only because I didn't need a semi-auto for what I intended the gun for.

I've got about 125 rounds down the barrel of the Remington and it's accuracy with the same Remington 220gr subs is fantastic, 10 shots in less than a dime sized hole at 50yds with a 10x scope, opens up to about a nickel sized hole @ a hundred. I've still got the "flexible, crappy, stock and the new X-Pro trigger that every seems to gripe about, I've had no problems with either. Bullet drop at longer ranges is dramatic, but consistent. Using a laser range finder takes the guess out of ranging, 300yds and closer is all I'm interested in, and once you get your dial-ups worked up that's no problem with a 20 MOA scope base.

Remember I said I thought the AR was quiet....the 700 is about as close to Hollywood quiet as I'll ever get. I'm working on a dual-optic, day-night rig with this gun, but I'm having one consistent problem with the gun. It fails to EJECT the empty almost every round, flipping the case around backwards or just lying the case on the top of the next round. (If anyone can help out here please contact me.) Annoying more than anything, a $700 rifle shouldn't do this. I'm also wanting to do some heavy-cast bullet experimenting with this rifle.

I view the 300 Blackout as a special purpose type cartridge, not a replacement for anything in my arsenal, and for that purpose it will serve well.

AJMD429 I am EXREMELY interested in how well you like your Mystic suppressor. Been looking at one myself for my third can.

Rob

[Old Ironsights]

(A) I wish the .gov was not extorting people with the NFA & GCA so
(B) I could addord a suppressor in the .357 to .308 range.

I like the Mystic, but I really don't shoot .22 enough to care and DO shoot .357/.308/x54R enough to want that class of can.

but I'm not keen on/willing to put my name on another List to get there.

What's the best option (NFA or not) for a .308/.311/.357 class rifle for a non-.gov off book suppressor?

[AJMD429]

. . . accuracy with the same Remington 220gr subs is fantastic, 10 shots in less than a dime sized hole at 50yds with a 10x scope, opens up to about a nickel sized hole @ a hundred.

That's what I expected with the Encore; it does that with every other chambering/barrel I have for it, but none of the factory ammo (or any of my first batch of 220 grain loads using primed new brass) are nearly that accurate (and I'm not THAT bad a shot)... Frustrating...

AJMD429 I am EXREMELY interested in how well you like your Mystic suppressor. Been looking at one myself for my third can.

I plan on having four suppressors eventually (already have the first three):

1. Most Versatile - Mystic (Liberty Cans) - good for 357 Maximum on down, including subsonic 308 Win, 223, 22 Hornet, 32-20, 38/357, plus all the 'dirty' rimfire rounds (you can take the Mystic apart for cleaning). Light weight even though not as small as 'dedicated' 22 LR suppressors. "If I could only have one suppressor..."

2. 223-dedicated can - Trek (Gemtech) - Sturdy as a tank, compact, and light enough I can use it on my Ruger Mark-3/45 in 22 LR without feeling too unbalanced. I avoid rimfire use though since I don't want to mess with cleaning wax and powder fouling out of it all the time, and I have the Mystic.

3. 22 LR LEVERGUN can - Operative (Thompson Machine) - This is an 'integral' suppressor, so it appears just like a 0.750" non-tapered barrel. These folks make the cool version that is set up on a Ruger 10/22 Takedown, but you can take the non-takedown 10/22 model and in about five minutes use a hand-file to make the second extractor-groove needed for a 99/22 - THEN you have a totally quiet 22 LR levergun. (Honestly, I shot it at a 500-yard snow bank a few years ago just so I could get the bullet impact quiet enough to appreciate the thing; if your bullet hits a pile of leaves in the woods behind a 100 yard backstop, the bullet impact is way louder than the sound of the gun firing.)

4. Someday a "45-70" can - just so I can launch a 700 grain .458" projectile at 900 fps or so, or maybe the opposite extreme, a tiny 22-LR-only can for a threaded Beretta-21 barrel.

I like the Mystic, but I really don't shoot .22 enough to care and DO shoot .357/.308/x54R enough to want that class of can.

but I'm not keen on/willing to put my name on another List to get there.

What's the best option (NFA or not) for a .308/.311/.357 class rifle for a non-.gov off book suppressor?

Personally, I figure I'm already on enough "lists" that I don't care. I haven't bought a gun from an 'individual' in decades, so have tons of 4473's "on file", plus I already had two NFA entries when I owned the Striker shotguns (which weren't Class-III when I bought them, legally, from a dealer, but when it came time to sell them I had to go through all the NFA paperwork). So, I figure why not be on yet another "list".

Besides, the penalties are SO severe for 'noncompliance', even though it is just a stupid 'paperwork' crime, that I'd never want to risk that. There ARE laws I intentionally refuse to comply with ("seatbelt laws" among them - even though I always wear mine, if there is a 'checkpoint' I often unbuckle mine just to 'rebel'), but in that case the penalty is a $50 fine, not loss of gun ownership rights for the rest of my life.

[firefuzz]

1. Most Versatile - Mystic (Liberty Cans) - good for 357 Maximum on down, including subsonic 308 Win, 223, 22 Hornet, 32-20, 38/357, plus all the 'dirty' rimfire rounds (you can take the Mystic apart for cleaning). Light weight even though not as small as 'dedicated' 22 LR suppressors. "If I could only have one suppressor..."


4. Someday a "45-70" can - just so I can launch a 700 grain .458" projectile at 900 fps or so, or maybe the opposite extreme, a tiny 22-LR-only can for a threaded Beretta-21 barrel.

I like the Mystic, but I really don't shoot .22 enough to care and DO shoot .357/.308/x54R enough to want that class of can.

but I'm not keen on/willing to put my name on another List to get there.

What's the best option (NFA or not) for a .308/.311/.357 class rifle for a non-.gov off book suppressor?

Personally, I figure I'm already on enough "lists" that I don't care. I haven't bought a gun from an 'individual' in decades, so have tons of 4473's "on file", plus I already had two NFA entries when I owned the Striker shotguns (which weren't Class-III when I bought them, legally, from a dealer, but when it came time to sell them I had to go through all the NFA paperwork). So, I figure why not be on yet another "list".

Besides, the penalties are SO severe for 'noncompliance', even though it is just a stupid 'paperwork' crime, that I'd never want to risk that. There ARE laws I intentionally refuse to comply with ("seatbelt laws" among them - even though I always wear mine, if there is a 'checkpoint' I often unbuckle mine just to 'rebel'), but in that case the penalty is a $50 fine, not loss of gun ownership rights for the rest of my life.

My first can was a Tactical Innovations TAC-65 dedicated .22 L.R. can. Easy to clean and pretty quiet, mounted on a Gen I Glock 17 with a trigger guard mounted laser it makes a terrific neighborhood pest removal tool. Now that Oklahoma has legalized suppressors for hunting the squirrels may get a dose of suppressed Ruger 10/22.

My second can, the YHM 7.62 is rated for an M60 machine gun. I wanted something to suppress a 20" .30-06 and smaller stuff I've got including the Blackout and a couple of .223's. I know you can't truly suppress a super-sonic round but no muzzle blast or flash can be advantageous at times and the '06 will shoot sub-moa out to 300yds (longest range I have close enough to play on regularly) with the suppressor mounted.

I'd like the Mystic to use on my Glock 17 and the lighter weight would make it appealing on the Blackout, .223's and a .30 carbine I'm wanting to be able to suppress. I think you're right about the one can choice.

Old Ironsights, buddy please think long and hard about that, I did. The 10 and 10 penalty (10 years and $10k per offense) pretty much convinced me to avoid the oil can "patch catcher" devices found on Ebay and at gunshows and go the NFA route. I'm hoping the move to get suppressors re-classified to a $5 stamp succeeds, I'll have a dedicated suppressor on a lot of my guns if it does.

LOL, it's funny but I'd like to suppress a .45-70 also.

Rob

[AJMD429]

I'm working on a dual-optic, day-night rig with this gun. . .

Kind of my thoughts, as well.



Here's a link on Leverguns about the scope - Pulsar DigiScope 550

Not a ready-for-combat optic, but the Rabbits in my garden don't generally shoot back, and I don't generally get excited enough about protecting my peas that I go lay in the mud and rain to hunt them. I'll leave the $4,000 rigs to those who need them.

[firefuzz]

I'm working on a dual-optic, day-night rig with this gun. . .

Kind of my thoughts, as well.



Here's a link on Leverguns about the scope - Pulsar DigiScope 550

Not a ready-for-combat optic, but the Rabbits in my garden don't generally shoot back, and I don't generally get excited enough about protecting my peas that I go lay in the mud and rain to hunt them. I'll leave the $4,000 rigs to those who need them.

LOL, you and I must think a lot alike, I bought the N750 for coyotes. Caught one NIB on gunbroker about 30 minutes after it listed that the seller priced at $1,100 starting bid, $1,100 buy it now, and free shipping. I think he erred on the buy it now price as he listed another at $1,350 buy it now about an hour after I bought mine. Had been looking at them for about 2 months and couldn't pass it up.

BTW, unless you like changing batteries the extended life, external mount rechargeable battery pack is well worth the price. Mine eats the regular batteries pretty quick, I burned thru two sets just playing with the scope and trying to learn how to fine tune it. The daytime capabilities of this scope are handy for sighting in, but leave a lot to be desired in comparison to regular optics in the bright sunlight. I'm also trying to get GG&G to make one of their QD mounts for these scopes, it would be the same between models. I've had very good luck with their QD mounts on other applications and think they would be just the ticket for a day/night outfit.

Rob

[Old Ironsights]

The object of the question is not to procure one, but technical curiosity.

Between the tax stamp and the hyper-inflated prices caused by the .gov skewing the market over what is essentially a hollow tube full of fender washers and spacers, I can't begin to afford one anyway.

[7.62 Precision]

There is a company that makes a barrel adapter for oil filters. The adapter is the NFA device, and you screw an oil filter on it.


I can see the attraction for the .300 BLK, and even have a barrel here that I need to get around to selling, but for me it jut does not fit my needs. A 6.5 Grendel is more useful from the the same type of firearm in almost every circumstance. It might not be a bad idea where people hunt from trees.

[Old Ironsights]

There is a company that makes a barrel adapter for oil filters. The adapter is the NFA device, and you screw an oil filter on it.

I've seen those. Might be OK on a spray & pray subgun. Hard to use the sights.

I'm not adverse to being on yet another "list" per se, but I'm mostly annoyed at the total cost of ownership that being an NFA item creates.

Still, it would be nice to have a can that is functional, cleanable and will swap from .357 to .308...

[AJMD429]

BTW, unless you like changing batteries the extended life, external mount rechargeable battery pack is well worth the price. Mine eats the regular batteries pretty quick, I burned thru two sets just playing with the scope and trying to learn how to fine tune it.

Mine even ate batteries when 'off', and I've contemplated building a switch/disconnect into the battery compartment cap. I picked up the external power pack at the NRA show a couple weeks ago.

[Rusty]

I wonder if there are any plans to make this sub sonic? http://www.broadswordgroup.com/sharps_ammunition.html