Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32800
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
My nurse practitioner recently saw a patient of mine for an annual physical who is now in his 80's, but started seeing me years ago when he was a (relatively) young man in his 50's. Knowing his wife of nearly 70 years passed away recently, I wanted to know how he was doing, so I asked her.
She said he was a really nice gentleman, and she commented that he had a couple old wounds she asked about, and he said they were "bullet wounds from World War II", so she told me she said "Thank you so much for your service; we need more like you...".
I asked her how he responded, and she said he just kind of nodded awkwardly, and she figured he was embarrassed at her compliment.
I started grinning and she asked "What...???" but I wouldn't tell her what I was grinning about until the end of the day (partly because the whole story takes some time to tell, and partly just because I'm sadistic and wanted her to have to wait).
The story is that he was growing up in Germany, and at age 14 years old or so, when the Nazi soldiers told him he was now a 'soldier', he didn't want to go, but they let him know his family would be killed, and the females 'enjoyed' beforehand, if he didn't go. So this guy she "thanked for his service" was in fact a Nazi Soldier...
I asked him how he survived the war, and even though he's a big guy (I picture him in his late teens as one BIG Kraut Soldier), he said he just tried not to get shot, by either the enemy (us), or by his officers (for not fighting hard enough). After the war, he reunited with a school sweetheart, and got the heck out of Germany, winding up here.
One of the nicest guys I've known, but boy what a history of his youth...!
She said he was a really nice gentleman, and she commented that he had a couple old wounds she asked about, and he said they were "bullet wounds from World War II", so she told me she said "Thank you so much for your service; we need more like you...".
I asked her how he responded, and she said he just kind of nodded awkwardly, and she figured he was embarrassed at her compliment.
I started grinning and she asked "What...???" but I wouldn't tell her what I was grinning about until the end of the day (partly because the whole story takes some time to tell, and partly just because I'm sadistic and wanted her to have to wait).
The story is that he was growing up in Germany, and at age 14 years old or so, when the Nazi soldiers told him he was now a 'soldier', he didn't want to go, but they let him know his family would be killed, and the females 'enjoyed' beforehand, if he didn't go. So this guy she "thanked for his service" was in fact a Nazi Soldier...
I asked him how he survived the war, and even though he's a big guy (I picture him in his late teens as one BIG Kraut Soldier), he said he just tried not to get shot, by either the enemy (us), or by his officers (for not fighting hard enough). After the war, he reunited with a school sweetheart, and got the heck out of Germany, winding up here.
One of the nicest guys I've known, but boy what a history of his youth...!
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:41 pm
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
I knew one man who was in the Hitler Youth and then the German Army. Another man who was a Ukrainian college professor who was drafted, he lost everything for 17 years in USSR gulags. Both emigrated to the US after those hard times, were productive US citizens, Christians, and you could tell that those early years of NAZI Germany had put a dent in them.
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
I wonder about our own...umm....well, I won't turn this one political. It had a happy ending for him.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:41 pm
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Those are details and features that stood out in both of the men I knew. I think they are long gone now.AJMD429 wrote:). .........................." After the war, he reunited with a school sweetheart, and got the heck out of Germany, winding up here.
One of the nicest guys I've known, but boy what a history of his youth...!
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Quite a few men were "drafted" into the German army. Few were Nazis. However, after going thru Buchenwald my dad's outfit quit taking prisoners. The draftees may not have been directly involved with the what happened during that war, but to a front line soldier seeing what my dad did, it didn't matter.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
- horsesoldier03
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2107
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:32 pm
- Location: Kansas
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Sadam Husain did the same thing back during Desert Storm. A lot of the soldiers that were forced to fight were not even Iraqi but Kurds that were trying to flee the country. We came across one family where the wife had been raped and beaten a baby had it's hand dipped into boiling oil before the dad finally agreed to go with the Iraqi soldiers to fight.
Just another reason to be thankful that you live in the United States!
Just another reason to be thankful that you live in the United States!
Gun Control is not about guns, it is about control!
- gundownunder
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1449
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:02 pm
- Location: Perth. Western Australia
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
A lot of people make the mistake of calling it the nazi army. It was the German army. The nazi party was the political power at that time.
It would be like calling the US army a liberal army or republican army based on who the president is at that time.
It would have been a tough army to get conscripted to. Stick your head up too high and the enemy would blow it off and if you don't stick it up high enough your own officers would blow it off, and if you questioned orders you'd wish to God that they had blown your head off.
It would be like calling the US army a liberal army or republican army based on who the president is at that time.
It would have been a tough army to get conscripted to. Stick your head up too high and the enemy would blow it off and if you don't stick it up high enough your own officers would blow it off, and if you questioned orders you'd wish to God that they had blown your head off.
Bob
***********************************
You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
***********************************
***********************************
You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
***********************************
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 19243
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
That was a cool story.
I have heard many times that the German soldier was the best disciplined of all of the armies involved. I always got the impression that the discipline was self motivated.
Yea, motivated at the end of a bayonet.---6
I have heard many times that the German soldier was the best disciplined of all of the armies involved. I always got the impression that the discipline was self motivated.
Yea, motivated at the end of a bayonet.---6
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Why deprive the german guy of that same unthinking idol worship that servicemen receive nowadays?
He served a government not a bit different than the one we've got now.
He served a government not a bit different than the one we've got now.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:41 pm
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
I don't know what you are referring to or mean FWiedner?
The 2 examples I knew were thinking and didn't want to go.
One had a family and everything including his horses was confiscated for the German Army.
The 2 examples I knew were thinking and didn't want to go.
One had a family and everything including his horses was confiscated for the German Army.
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain....He was once bit by the Marine Corps bulldog mascot, and has been bitter ever since.Centennial wrote:I don't know what you are referring to or mean FWiedner?
The 2 examples I knew were thinking and didn't want to go.
One had a family and everything including his horses was confiscated for the German Army.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
"Both emigrated to the US after those hard times, were productive US citizens, Christians, and you could tell that those early years of NAZI Germany had put a dent in them.
I too know a folk who emigrated to the US after those hard times, were productive US citizens, Jews and you could tell those early years of NAZI Germany had put a dent in them.
I too know a folk who emigrated to the US after those hard times, were productive US citizens, Jews and you could tell those early years of NAZI Germany had put a dent in them.
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4443
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:33 pm
- Location: Wyoming and Arizona
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
I worked with a guy whose father was an interesting story. Captured in North Africa, he spent the rest of the war in a POW camp in northern Wyoming, town of Powell IIRC. While there, he was among the prisoners who were paroled to work the farms around the area and became close friends with one of the farm families there. After the war, he was repatriated to Germany, where he was able to locate his wife, get her out of East Germany and come back to the US , sponsored by the same farm family.
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:41 pm
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
I don't doubt it for a second. That generation is fast dying now too.2571 wrote:"Both emigrated to the US after those hard times, were productive US citizens, Christians, and you could tell that those early years of NAZI Germany had put a dent in them.
I too know a folk who emigrated to the US after those hard times, were productive US citizens, Jews and you could tell those early years of NAZI Germany had put a dent in them.
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
I worked with a man in his 60's when I was young and stupid, 17-18. He a crusty old coot who took a liking to me. After working with him a few years he started to talk one day. He was in an artillery unit that was the first into Auschwitz. He said he was not particularly bothered by the war until then, even after a couple years of fighting. He said after that he hated the enemy and did everything he could to eliminate them.
Saw a documentary awhile ago about Auschwitz and it mentioned his unit and I thought about him.
Don
Saw a documentary awhile ago about Auschwitz and it mentioned his unit and I thought about him.
Don
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
There were a couple guys captured when everyone went ashore at Normandy. Intelligence guys couldn't figure out who this group of guys were as every translated language (European) failed.
Finally, they figured it out. These guys were Korean (at the time, a 'protectorate' of Japan and being drained of it's resources) forced to work for the Japanese army (conscript labor). During the Khalkin Ghol battles against the Soviets, they became captured.
Given the option of being worked to death/starved in the process, they went to work for the Soviet army. During the early fighting against the Germans, they were captured by the Germans, along with several million Russians. Given the option of starvation or work, they ended up in the German army, and were posted to the Atlantic Wall defenses and trained as machine gunners.
With a German sergeant and a pistol ensuring they stayed in place, they shot a lot and probably didn't try real hard to hit anyone until their position was overrun. They didn't want to particularly fight in ANY war and managed to survive 'serving' in the Japanese, Soviet and German armies before finally getting captured by the U.S......
Up till recently, I worked with a former member of the East German Air Force, a SA-6 crew member who tried very hard to get target locks on our SR-71s. After 15+ years in capitalist America, we generally get along, until one day he was telling some of our younger coworkers (18-20ish) about how great East Germany had been growing up.
They received a rapid history lesson from me and he got a serious talking to.....
Finally, they figured it out. These guys were Korean (at the time, a 'protectorate' of Japan and being drained of it's resources) forced to work for the Japanese army (conscript labor). During the Khalkin Ghol battles against the Soviets, they became captured.
Given the option of being worked to death/starved in the process, they went to work for the Soviet army. During the early fighting against the Germans, they were captured by the Germans, along with several million Russians. Given the option of starvation or work, they ended up in the German army, and were posted to the Atlantic Wall defenses and trained as machine gunners.
With a German sergeant and a pistol ensuring they stayed in place, they shot a lot and probably didn't try real hard to hit anyone until their position was overrun. They didn't want to particularly fight in ANY war and managed to survive 'serving' in the Japanese, Soviet and German armies before finally getting captured by the U.S......
Up till recently, I worked with a former member of the East German Air Force, a SA-6 crew member who tried very hard to get target locks on our SR-71s. After 15+ years in capitalist America, we generally get along, until one day he was telling some of our younger coworkers (18-20ish) about how great East Germany had been growing up.
They received a rapid history lesson from me and he got a serious talking to.....
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:36 pm
- Location: Western Australia
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Russian?Nazgul wrote:I worked with a man in his 60's when I was young and stupid, 17-18. He a crusty old coot who took a liking to me. After working with him a few years he started to talk one day. He was in an artillery unit that was the first into Auschwitz. He said he was not particularly bothered by the war until then, even after a couple years of fighting. He said after that he hated the enemy and did everything he could to eliminate them.
Saw a documentary awhile ago about Auschwitz and it mentioned his unit and I thought about him.
Don
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
YUPFWiedner wrote:Why deprive the german guy of that same unthinking idol worship that servicemen receive nowadays?
He served a government not a bit different than the one we've got now.
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
You have both gone completely off your rockers.1894cfan wrote:YUPFWiedner wrote:Why deprive the german guy of that same unthinking idol worship that servicemen receive nowadays?
He served a government not a bit different than the one we've got now.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
You don't know until you ask.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:41 pm
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
When I was just starting out, break time at work, the old timers (old to me then, not so old now, they were working hard) would be swapping war stories. The German guy from Hitler Youth and a US Marine from San Ysidro California. I listened intently and asked the Marine where/what he did during WWII? "I was in the Pacific at a place called Bougainville." he said.
Later a man that was a horse cavalry instructor and then the 2nd Rangers for WWII, one from NJ that was on the Yorktown at Midway and spent 3 days on a raft, and another that led the last US horse cavalry charge against the Japs.
I feel I been lucky to meet and sometimes work alongside those people, all became friends even though a big age spread. Now they are gone.
Later a man that was a horse cavalry instructor and then the 2nd Rangers for WWII, one from NJ that was on the Yorktown at Midway and spent 3 days on a raft, and another that led the last US horse cavalry charge against the Japs.
I feel I been lucky to meet and sometimes work alongside those people, all became friends even though a big age spread. Now they are gone.
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 249
- Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:12 am
- Location: Boise, Id
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Prior war but the same out come for the conscripted "pawn". Most of the war vets I have met would be more than happy to have skipped the experience.
Chris
DULCE ET DECORUM EST(1)
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares(2) we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest(3) began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots(4)
Of tired, outstripped(5) Five-Nines(6) that dropped behind.
Gas!(7) Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets(8) just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime(9) . . .
Dim, through the misty panes(10) and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering,(11) choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud(12)
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest(13)
To children ardent(14) for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.(15)
Wilfred Owen
Chris
DULCE ET DECORUM EST(1)
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares(2) we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest(3) began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots(4)
Of tired, outstripped(5) Five-Nines(6) that dropped behind.
Gas!(7) Gas! Quick, boys! – An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets(8) just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime(9) . . .
Dim, through the misty panes(10) and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering,(11) choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud(12)
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest(13)
To children ardent(14) for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori.(15)
Wilfred Owen
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:41 pm
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
^ My Grandfather was in the trenches of that one. ^
- Paladin
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1932
- Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:55 am
- Location: Not Working (much)
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Put a former SS Medic in prison for life+ for some things he did. Did not know his history until later. Some change some do not.
It is not the critic who counts
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
" NAZI Germany had put a dent in them."
Had a friend a generation older than me. 17 year old Czech national in WWII. Imprisoned with his entire family in a slave labor camp. Escaped when an American plane strafed his road gang; he fled west to the approaching Americans. Never saw his kith nor kin again.
One of the nicest guys you could meet, a genuine prince among men. He saw enough acrimony as a kid, he never let anything bother him. He could see the good in any man although others would or could not.
I'm honored to say I knew him.
Had a friend a generation older than me. 17 year old Czech national in WWII. Imprisoned with his entire family in a slave labor camp. Escaped when an American plane strafed his road gang; he fled west to the approaching Americans. Never saw his kith nor kin again.
One of the nicest guys you could meet, a genuine prince among men. He saw enough acrimony as a kid, he never let anything bother him. He could see the good in any man although others would or could not.
I'm honored to say I knew him.
- Old Ironsights
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 15084
- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:27 am
- Location: Waiting for the Collapse
- Contact:
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
Most conscripts are not "true believers" - though some can become so through sufficient indoctrination.
I had some good times playing drinking games with my Soviet-Russian counterparts at a VIP detail in Frankfurt before the Wall was brought down.
Decent Joes (Ivans) and we would greet each other with "Tomorrow we kill each other, but Tonight we Drink!"
The only sticks in the mud were their Zampolit and our MI handlers...
I had some good times playing drinking games with my Soviet-Russian counterparts at a VIP detail in Frankfurt before the Wall was brought down.
Decent Joes (Ivans) and we would greet each other with "Tomorrow we kill each other, but Tonight we Drink!"
The only sticks in the mud were their Zampolit and our MI handlers...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
I grew up with a kid whose dad was a conscript in the German army in WWII. He was captured during the Battle of the Bulge and after his release brought his wife and family back to live in the U.S. He became a proud American despite never losing his heavy German accent.
I wonder how many of us would have enlisted in the Nazi war machine had we grown up in Germany at the time??
I wonder how many of us would have enlisted in the Nazi war machine had we grown up in Germany at the time??
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4296
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:57 pm
- Location: Vinita, I.T.
Re: Be careful who you "thank for their service..."
While I was serving in the US Army, our CO was a guy who got drafted into the german army. He made sergeant though. This was in '62-'63. Maybe he was in Korea too as a lot of our NCOs were.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS