Nice write-up I found on carrying 1911 on another site...

[86er]

COPIED:

My experiences will vary from others quite a bit, but the following may provide insight and provoke thought for anyone considering a 1911 or wondering why?

In 1988 I carrying the Dept. approved .38 revolver. in 1998 this was replaced with a .40 Glock 23. At some point things changed and I was issued 9mm's in Sig 228, Sig 239 and Glock 26 for about 2 years each. In 2001 the .40 Glock 23 was issued again along with a same-caliber Glock 27 as a second weapon. Overlapping as a back-up or off duty pistol for 13 of those years was a .40 Kahr PM.

The revolver never has any fuctioning issues. The two Sig's each had a few failure to feed problems that were random but not persistent. The Glock 26 did not have any issues but the Glock 27 sometimes would fail to feed with certain ammo, although rarely. The last Glock 23, a Generation 3 had 41,400 rounds through it when I turned it in to be issued a Generation 4. Having a virtually unlimited supply of ammo makes it very easy to shoot almost too much. That Generation 3 Glock had the recoil spring replaced four times as a precaution. It never had a single failure of any kind with at least three different types of "duty" ammo. The Kahm PM had 3450 rounds through it and just started to have some failure to feed when I switched from Gold Dot to HST ammo.

Having carried the Glock every day and firing over 41,000 rounds without a single malfunction seems like a very good reason to stick with it and I might have if the Dept. didn't mandate turning it in for a Gen 4 Glock. The Gen 4 did not start off with such stellar performance as its previous generation brethren. However, after a bit of minor tuning and 400 rounds it too has operated flawlessly for 3600 consecutive rounds now, all 165 gr HST ammo.

I have been personally at three shootings, one with a 38 special, and two with .40 caliber. I have also handled nearly one hundred shootings by civilians, some of which were also bad guys. Additionally, as a supervisor I responded to and did preliminary investigations for over a dozen officer involved shootings. Three things stand out about these experiences.

Officers with carrying the 38's shot 3 to 6 rounds, those with 9mm shot from 8 to 15 rounds and those with .40 caliber shot an average of 7 rounds. There is no particular rhyme or reason to this that can be proven, but one can be highlighted. While I have no idea of the statistics related to the 38 Special used by my Dept. are, I do know that over a dozen people were shot with 9mm. All were hit with more than 2 rounds and well over half lived. When the Dept. switched to .40 caliber the number of people that were shot in a certain time period was one more than what I observed shot with the 9mm. These people shot with the .40 caliber were hit with more than 3 rounds and all but one (who was shot in the leg) died.

You could conclude the .40 is more effective, but that does not take into account advances in bullet technology, experience level of the Officers, better training or pure coincidences. I cannot say which cartridge is more effective with any scientific basis I can only make my own decision based on a level of confidence that comes from observations.

As far as a "safety record", I've not personally observed any negligent discharges with the revolvers and just one with a Sig where the magazine was removed and the trigger pulled (operator error). I have seen quite a number of negligent discharges with the Glock, but I must preface that by saying I saw a lot more Glocks for a much longer period of time.

One guy lost control of his Glock as he reached for it to take it off a high dresser. As it was falling he tried to catch it and accidentally got a finger in the trigger guard causing it to fire. Another time a Deputy Sheriff in our Task Force pulled his Glock while sitting in the passenger seat of a car as a bad guy rapidly approached the vehicle in an alarming manner. The bad guy figured out this was not a good idea and retreated. The Deputy attempted to re-holster and promptly fired a round through the seat. Lastly, a young lady had her Glock in a gym back with who knows what else. The Glock was in a kydex holster of some kind. When she reached in to pull it out it apparently came out of the holster but got snagged. She pushed and pulled the pistol and it discharged. Now, none of these incidents are the pistols fault but the fact that they could fire under these circumstances is contributed to by the pistols design.

My sons have been taught firearms safety since before they could talk or walk. With major care and supervision they could pull the trigger on the Glock at 5 years old while holding it in two hand and aiming it (no ammo). Prior to this I can only presume they could pull the trigger somehow, but not in an aimed, two hand hold.

With this background and experience nestled in my brain, I was gifted a Colt Commander in 45 ACP about 3 years ago. I did not know the operating system at all when I got it. I appreciated the 45 ACP because I had seen civilian shooting with this caliber and it was very effective although I have no idea what ammunition was used. I also appreciate heavy, slow moving bullets and low pressure cartridges from hunting experiences. These are ballistic qualities that I migrate to when hunting bears or boars at close range.

I fired 500 rounds through that Colt over a two week period and never could get along with it. The small sights were not readily visible in a fast, fluent situation. The arched MSH was not comfortable to me and made the pistol point where I could not instantly pick up the sights. One time at the end of the day I took it out of the holster and the dang safety had come off. Another day I put it in a holster where the barrel stuck out a bit and by the end of the day the slide where it stuck out of the holster was rusted and left pock marks on it. It also was noticable to carry due to the weight and edges.

Furthermore, it never was totally reliable. I had Wilson Combat magazines but the pistol would occasionally fail to feed or stovepipe on ejection. One of these issues would crop within every 50 rounds. One day while qualifying the pistol jammed up solid. It ended up being the firing pin stop that had backed out. That was it - this pistol had to go.

Suddenly, not having a 1911 haunted me. I enjoyed the low recoil and straight axis of movement that the 45 ACP cartridge offered. I like the safety features that the thumb and grip mechanisms offered. There were times when the pistol seemed more comfortable than the Glock to carry when it was IWB and I was sort of sitting around. I went on a quest to find just the right one for me - that turned into a year long search.

I handled everything I came across in gun stores and flipped through every catalog or on-line site I could find. One day a partner from the State introduced me to STI. Made in my home State of Texas and with a stellar reputation for customer service I made the trip to Georgetown. I will not say that this brand is better than any other because I have no experience with others, I will just say that they had the right gun for me.

I found a pistol that was much lighter than the Colt, fit my hand perfectly by a combination of frame width, grip width and MSH configuration and beavertail, and was promised to be totally reliable. I began to train, train , train with this pistol.

First, out of curiosity I told my sons about this gun. They had a very hard time moving the thumb safety and could not properly hold the pistol to disengage the grip safety and pull the trigger a few years ago. NOTE: Now at 8 years old my oldest son actually shoots this pistol with my supervision. A year or two makes a huge difference in the ability to operate it.

My typical qualification scores with the Glock were from the high 280's to an occassional 300 out of 300 consistently. With the 1911, I run in the high 290's to the occassional 300 consistently, so there is a slight improvement in my performance level. This is a timed course, so clearly the safety and the additonal reloading necessary can be done in the allotted time and does not effect my scoring.

I have carried this 1911 every day, mostly IWB but sometimes OWB. It is by far the most comfortable pistol I have ever carried. This one has a coating on it, so rust is not an issue on the outside. The manual of arms is different than the Colt. This pistol comes apart much like the Kahr pistol. 1) remove the slide stop 2) remove the slide from frame 3) pick out the recoil spring/guide rod assembly 4) pick out the plug 5) slide the barrel out. Cleaning is quick an easy. I use Gun Scrubber and an air compressor to blast the frame. A toothbrush and some solvent are used on the ramp-starter and the base of the dust cover where I see gunk. Blast with scrubber and air again and run Break Free on the rails and a few spots that show metal-to-metal contact. The slide is cleaned much the same way. Of course the barrel is cleaned separately. Re-assembly is the reverse order of assembly with a function test at the end.

I did fret about the ballistic performance of the 45 ACP and how the actual barrel length effected performance. Again, I have seen quite a few civilian shootings with 45 ACP after-the-fact so I do not have the information about range, circumstances or ammo that makes a big difference in results. I've been at just a few LE shootings with 45's and never noticed any deficiency that would raise concerns. I also was a little uneasy about the lower round count than my Glock afforded me.

Having access to a ballistic laboratory and a variety of ammo is a convenient blessing when you are trying to learn about a cartridge/firearm combination.
To be short, I've compared .40 cal Gold Dot and HST (165 grain) and HST (180 grain) with .45 cal Gold Dot (230 grain standard and short barrel) and HST (230 grain standard and +P). Throughout the FBI protocol tests I have personally performed, the 45 always ends up a greater diameter than the 40's and the penetration varies somewhat inconsistently. Sometimes the 40's show up to 2.5" more penetration, but sometimes it was the 45's that had the 2.5" advantage. When comparing a Glock 27 with a 3.25" 1911 the ballistics were very similar as they were with a Glock 23 compared to a 4.26" 1911 and a 5.0" 1911. So to me with my findings, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. I reload ammo for practice, so I do have to pay to shoot the 45 where the .40's are free to me, but I like the 45 more - enough to not mind paying for duty ammo and reloading for practice. Frankly, if my 1911 was in .40 caliber I wouldnt mind - it would make no practical difference to me based on my observations of both calibers performance.

I've fired 6880 rounds through my 1911 so far. In the first 200 rounds I did have 3 malfunctions. Since then I stopped by STI with the pistol so they could look it over. A half hour later they did a few things to it and it has not had a single malfunction since with a variety of reloaded ammo and duty ammo. Training with many repetitions out of the holster, on and off "threats" and in "officer down, disabled officer" scenarios was paramount to efficiency and confidence. I also worried about the distinction between the Glock and the 1911 operating procedures. Well, with all the dry fire practice and live fire with the 1911 over just about 2 years now I can literally switch between the two guns without any consciousness needed for my brain to make the proper transition for operation. This is much like a single or double trigger shotgun. I use both regularly and I never have thought about the triggers or accidentally pull the same trigger twice, nor tried to pull a trigger that wasnt there.

I did start off uneasy about the round count. However, I went back to my direct experiences. Most of the LEO shootings were 8 rounds or less (per officer). I can reload quickly and easily and 2 spare magazine carry much more comfortably than even one spare Glock magazine. When times call for it, I still have a second gun on me anyway (same as when I carried the Glock) and if I am going to a planned situation that may be touchy I have a long gun as a primary.

I really enjoy the 1911 and wish I started with one sooner. Practice, practice, practice and familiarity with the firing system and maintenance are very important as is a good holster that is comfortable, secure and keep the gun in the same place always, always, always. Make sure to find the right one for you and tests its reliability, not settling for anything but 100% all the time with duty ammo for thousands of rounds.

I hope this info helps guide someone who may be thinking of a 1911, or reinforces ideas for those that may be hesitant or uncertain.

[MrMurphy]

Especially in your case, read everything Hilton Yam's ever written on 1911s, it is LE-specific and useful.

[Centennial]

That is quite a good write up. Lots of good advice.
The cost for me to shoot thousands of rounds of top of the line factory/duty or carry ammo would be not doable for me.
I'm lucky to just have the 1911. All my ammo is cast bullets and reloaded for any and all occasions. I haven't had any feeding failures unless it was cartridge length, my fault. Time consuming but all my ammo that is going to get carried or be in the magazine gets function tested by racking the slide.

[Griff]

I've had a 1911 since the Navy issued me one... and a Combat Commander since 1980. I had our dept armorer go over it before I qualified with it the first time. Utterly reliable. What all he did is still a mystery. I know he changed the recoil spring, and polished the feed ramp...

I still had to carry the .38 revolver until 1991... and qualify with both on our PPC course. With the .38+P ammo I would consistently score a 300 with a mid-high 30's in "x" count. With the 45CP Combat Commander I would consistently get 290ish. Rarely below, but only once above 295. All qualifying with the .38s was done with departmental reloaded (inmates... "trustees"...) ammo, while the 45ACP was commercially loaded ball ammo.

After 1990, all qualifying was mainly still with reloaded ammo, but... at least 5 of the 60 had to be the same ammo as carried (legal requirement). This was a requirement for both the .38 & .45.

Luckily, I never had to transition into the 9mm.

I've not made a study of shootings, and only have personal experience (knowledge) of 3. All involved the .38+P duty ammo we carried. Two were fatalities, and both those had the least number of shots fired.

Mr. Murphy, I'll have to look that up. But, little shakes my confidence in the .45ACP and 1911 platform. I don't have a Series 80 type, but have no personal experience shooting one... Other's experiences have made me a little shy of them. But, and in spite of it reading "Marine" on it, I'd like one of the new Colt's M45 CQB...

[OldWin]

I'm not a cop or an expert. I've never fired a shot in anger.
I've shot all my life. I've carried a pistol for 25 years.

I have a Glock 21SF on the nightstand. It shoots well, I trust it, it's a nice pistol.

I carry a Colt LW Commander. It shoots well, I trust it, it's just beautiful.

I have many handguns I could carry and have tried dozens over the years. The 1911 is just simply the one I'd rather carry.
It just has it all. More than the sum of it's parts. It will never be irrelevant.

[piller]

Good information and a lot to think about.

[tman]

Always thought the Colt 1911A1 Commander was the holy grail of carry, defence, pistol, untill i bought a Baby Glock 27 .40 when it 1st came out. The Glock became my carry piece and I haven't looked back, or found anything equal or better, since 1996.

[Ysabel Kid]

Thanks for sharing Joe!

[Mich Hunter]

I have a few 1911's to include one or two with elk antler grips Still on the hunt for a 70 series blued commander to have full coverage engraving done just for me. I trust the platform more than any other besides a Ruger wheel gun. As of today, I have been carrying a Glock 19 for my CCW for the last 8 years. Reason? It will go bang every time as well and if it gets damaged I really won't care that much. However, I am not a fan on how it points and the factory sights are crude at best. If I am out in the mountains scouting for elk or mules, one of the 1911's go. The grip angle is perfect and by nature comes up on target.

[M. M. Wright]

Good stuff Joe, thanks.