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If a person wants you to hold an item for them (he's not local) and sends you a check, and he no longer wants the deal, are you obligated to return his ernest money?
A little background: I might be getting set up for a Craig's List scam If it follows the usual pattern, this guy will back out of the deal, want his money back, then I'll find out the bank cheque was a fraud. My plan, if he wants his money back, is to refuse.
None of this has happened as of yet, but, I've not heard from him for several days....just getting ready for some fun. Maybe I'll invite him down to the Sheriff's Barracks to work it out
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Mescalero wrote:Was'nt the guy a Canadian citizen?
May be some issues there.
I'm not going to stress about this....If he wants it back, it's a scam....I might even see if I can file a suit in British Columbia for Failure To Perform....
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Just tell him you will be happy to return his funds to him after the usual 180 day clearing/cooling off period. If the check it bad it will show up way before 6 months, if not you have the use of the money for 6 months and then you can send his money back.
jazman wrote:Just tell him you will be happy to return his funds to him after the usual 180 day clearing/cooling off period. If the check it bad it will show up way before 6 months, if not you have the use of the money for 6 months and then you can send his money back.
The bank deposited it with the proviso that I should keep the cash handy for awhile in case it's fraud.....I'm just pretending that it's not in the checking account....CLEARLY, I should have kept the check until he shows up with the US Dollars Cash for the bike.... What a dummy I is....
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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My oldest step son was looking for a summer job last year and, unbeknownst to us, answered a baby sitting ad on Craigslist. The "father" that placed the ad sent him a check for $2500 for "supplies", and was going to bring the child to be cared for in "a few weeks". When he told us about his new summer job, his mother was pretty mad that he was stupid enough to fall for something like that, and I calmly explained to him why it had to be a scam, and how it was probably going to play out. All the poor lad could see was the $$$. I asked him, do you really think a total stranger is going to front you $2500 to watch his child when he's never even spoken to you on the phone, much less met you or checked out the place where his kid was going to be cared for??? Wisely he tore up the check, and sent an email back to the scammer, ripping him up and down. Hope your guy turns out to be legit.
Sorta like those outfits that want you to haul their freight... but won't confirm in writing what the details of the load are... including the agreed upon rate! I don't care if they're offering $5/mile on the phone... put it writing big guy... or I'll be down the road. I know their "codes" on the website now... I don't even return their phone calls.
I often wonder how they're still able to find suckers to haul their stuff...
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
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GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession! AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Blaine: I think you need to take some reasonable steps so that he can not cry foul. Tell him you:
1- Deposited the cheque and are awaiting for it to clear your and his bank.
2- Will, after the funds have been deposited in your account, send him a refund in 5- 10 days. (As an aside, if the cheque does clear, I would send the refund out on the last day.)
If the above is done by E-mail, do you have a way of flagging the E-mail as to when he opens and reads it? That way you have some proof that he was informed and read what is going on.
If the cheque bounces, inform him of it and then proceed as to what you think is best. I have the feeling though that depending upon the amount and if returned for insufficient funds, etc., law enforcement just may very well do nothing.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
This may still happen. I have already told him that the sale will not proceed unless it's in US Dollars, cash, at the Credit Union where they can inspect the bills....I told him that I'm wary about Craig's List Scams. He might very well be writing me off as one to mess with....
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Earnest money is for earnesty. If the seller is not earnest about the purchase, he loses it. If you accept earnest money you are beholden to reject any subsequent offers, even better ones, as you have agreed to sell when the seller closes the deal. If he doesn't, you do not refund and thus reward "disearnesty".
So, accept it and cash it and keep it. Discount it against the final price when (if) the buyer closes as he promised. If he doesn't keep it and go back on the market with your item. This is simple, honorable, and correct. Refunding earnest money doesn't money doesn't make any sense.
I missed that it was earnest money the first read through.
As long as the $$$ was sent to hold the item for him, you need not send it back if he backs out.
Now if you can sell item to another buyer and refund the first guy's deposit money with no hard feelings, then it wasn't earnest money. Earnest money is risked by the buyer in order to hold the item, and is not typically refunded unless the seller backs out of the deal.
Ray Newman wrote:
1- Deposited the cheque and are awaiting for it to clear your and his bank.
2- Will, after the funds have been deposited in your account, send him a refund in 5- 10 days. (As an aside, if the cheque does clear, I would send the refund out on the last day.)
From what I have read, having the check initially 'clear' is NOT good enough.
The real crooks send you a forged bank check which passes thru your bank okay and your account is credited.
As the check winds its way thru the FED back to what would be the original bank then the forgery is discovered and then your bank will take the money back. I am quite certain this is more than a standard 5 to 10 business day check clearing time-frame.
Your local car dealer will take a local bank check and have no problems repossessing the car if necessary.
Any check from a stranger that is not local....no thanks.
Ray Newman wrote:
1- Deposited the cheque and are awaiting for it to clear your and his bank.
2- Will, after the funds have been deposited in your account, send him a refund in 5- 10 days. (As an aside, if the cheque does clear, I would send the refund out on the last day.)
From what I have read, having the check initially 'clear' is NOT good enough.
The real crooks send you a forged bank check which passes thru your bank okay and your account is credited.
As the check winds its way thru the FED back to what would be the original bank then the forgery is discovered and then your bank will take the money back. I am quite certain this is more than a standard 5 to 10 business day check clearing time-frame.
Your local car dealer will take a local bank check and have no problems repossessing the car if necessary.
Any check from a stranger that is not local....no thanks.
Bill
Yep, Yep, and Yep.......If he backs out, that "so called deposit" is a footnote for his history lesson. No way in heck I'm returning it.....
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Ray Newman wrote:
1- Deposited the cheque and are awaiting for it to clear your and his bank.
2- Will, after the funds have been deposited in your account, send him a refund in 5- 10 days. (As an aside, if the cheque does clear, I would send the refund out on the last day.)
From what I have read, having the check initially 'clear' is NOT good enough.
The real crooks send you a forged bank check which passes thru your bank okay and your account is credited.
As the check winds its way thru the FED back to what would be the original bank then the forgery is discovered and then your bank will take the money back. I am quite certain this is more than a standard 5 to 10 business day check clearing time-frame.
Your local car dealer will take a local bank check and have no problems repossessing the car if necessary.
Any check from a stranger that is not local....no thanks.
Bill
Bingo. This is why I would wait 180 days to refund, by that time you will know if it's real or not.
Blaine, I've sold a bunch of stuff on Craigslist and almost without fail I get people trying to scam me. They are even getting lazy where they pretty much send a form letter type response which usually starts out, "I am interested in our "item", (they don't even say what it is). It goes on to say they will send you a check that you can deposit and once it clears your bank they will send "their people" to come pick it up. Like another poster said, the bad check will take a few weeks to discover at which time the bank takes the money back from you. In the meantime, you either have reimbursed the scammer, who all of a sudden didn't want the item, or they pick up the item and are long gone. The best way is cash and even then, if it's a high dollar item such as a car. motorcycle, etc., do the actual transaction at your bank where they can run the money through a counter to weed out any counterfeit bills. This happens a lot, especially with the high quality printers some have. Banks usually do this for free. If not, simply exchange the money for new bills during the transaction. Craigslist has been great for me to get rid of stuff but it sure attracts a bunch of crooks.
I'm reluctant to sell high dollar items on Craig's, but recently did sell my wife's Avalon for $8000.
Buyer showed up with the money in fresh new bills in bank bundles, left the money with me on a Fri night, and told me if there was a problem with the money at my bank to call and let him know. He came back to get the car the next evening.
The scams go both ways. He had several horror stories about driving 2-4 hours to look at "cream puff" cars that weren't even close, or missing out by minutes after the owner told him they would wait for him. He was the first and only person I showed the car to, though I did email two others that it was sold after he left.
Have never had anyone try to scam me, but both cars I sold there went to the first lookers and I killed my ad right away.
___________________________________________________________________
I'm not paranoid because I carry a gun. Why should I be paranoid. I've got a gun.
You have heard the phrase CALM BEFORE THE STORM. I have little doubt that the check will bounce. My nephew sold a vehicle on craigslist the same way. A guy sent him a cashiers check and told him he would coordinate shipping to get the vehicle to him. It took about a week and then a transporter showed up for the vehicle which he gladly assisted them in loading. It took about a month when the check FINALLY BOUNCED.
I have bought and sold several vehicles on craigslist but it has always been a face to face transaction.
Best of Luck!
“Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”
You have heard the phrase CALM BEFORE THE STORM. I have little doubt that the check will bounce. My nephew sold a vehicle on craigslist the same way. A guy sent him a cashiers check and told him he would coordinate shipping to get the vehicle to him. It took about a week and then a transporter showed up for the vehicle which he gladly assisted them in loading. It took about a month when the check FINALLY BOUNCED.
I have bought and sold several vehicles on craigslist but it has always been a face to face transaction.
Best of Luck!
That's what I think....I'm not going to get taken, but, I should have known better, too
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Second Amendment Foundation
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I was having a little trouble with a homo sapien female in N.M. one time.
I consulted one of my female friends about it.
She laughed at me!
It made me angry, I said " this is not a laughing matter "
She said " yes it is, you are too old of a cat to be had by a kitten "
Good, female friends: are hard to come by: and indespensible.
Last time I sold a motorcycle on a well known site, I got scam contacts on a 10 to 1 ration of legitimate ones. It used to be such a good site to sell things on, now I will probably not use them again.
Most are so lazy they text you!!! I am not doing business (concerning thousands of dollars) via text! I may miss a sale...but I doubt it.
I just told them all I wanted cash and cash only. "But sir, a cashier's check is the same as cash." Not anymore, I want cash.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
You asked for amateur legal advice and that's what you're getting. Any Canadian bank will seize the buyer's$ from your American accounts through routine international banking compacts. They'll get punitive damages as well.
2571 wrote:You asked for amateur legal advice and that's what you're getting. Any Canadian bank will seize the buyer's$ from your American accounts through routine international banking compacts. They'll get punitive damages as well.
What you contemplate doing is outright fraud.
Fraud? Not hardly.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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So, the guy shows up at my place tonight. With his trailer, and about 20,000 cash (which verifies the pan USA trip he was taking to buy several motorcycles.....) When he picks up four motorcycles in AZ, and TX, I told him to arrange to complete our deal at mid-day at my credit union....CASH, US Dollars.......I'm feeling better about this all the time.....
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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BlaineG wrote:So, the guy shows up at my place tonight. With his trailer, and about 20,000 cash (which verifies the pan USA trip he was taking to buy several motorcycles.....) When he picks up four motorcycles in AZ, and TX, I told him to arrange to complete our deal at mid-day at my credit union....CASH, US Dollars.......I'm feeling better about this all the time.....
Send him my way. I haven't ridden my motorcycle since I broke my leg. It's gathering dust.
Then I can buy some guns...
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle
Send the cheque back. I would not accept a cheque drawn on a foreign bank. Cash or bank deposit only.
Here we have Trade Me which I guess is similar. I do a bit of buying and selling. Everything from guns to firewood. Rule one never release goods until the money is in your account. Which I check with Internet banking. So far no problems. Also I look at their feedback. Usually if there is something strange about an item others will ask questions of the seller. Like a guy trying to sell fake belt buckles as genuine "Colt" antique buckles, a scam which goes back to the 1960s. Or another trying to sell a fake Breitling watch.
Cheques will be gone soon in New Zealand. Too much trouble for the banking system I guess.
Anyway, here an international cheque takes about 6 months to clear. I know this because I had to wait a long time for a cheque to clear on some educational software I sold to a school in England who had to pay by a cheque signed by the school governors. Never again.
I have had good luck from deals done on forums like this one.
My last gun deal I've decided to inspect before money transfer.
We use EMT a lot here but it protects the seller but the buyer could transfer funds and have trouble.
The deal does leave a track as the bank handles both sides with direct e-mail transfers so it is trackable.
It works and allows a guy to buy online and not use a digital credit card transaction, that is getting to be dadly trouble.
These Craig's list places, mine is Kijiji, are getting serious scam sites.
Glad to hear a Canadian didn't screw you hopefuly.
A number of Canadians buy from the US and import cars and bikes, boats, and such.
Some BC lads just might be washing a wheelbarrow of wacky tabacky cash. It certainly qualifies as a cash crop in BC.
The one's I know are honest but ….
Likely to ease up with our dollar dropping to about 90-91 cents.
If it follows the usual pattern, this guy will back out of the deal, want his money back, then I'll find out the bank cheque was a fraud. My plan, if he wants his money back, is to refuse. 
Maybe I'll invite him down to the Sheriff's Barracks to work it out 
Not spending the down payment, and not giving it back to him.
It used to be such a good site to sell things on, now I will probably not use them again.
