OT - Remember the Pilot's gun that went "bang"?

[Old Ironsights]

Here's Why:





The above is a photo of the TSA approved "locking holster". It comes from the following Dec 2007 article.
------------------------------------------
TSA Arrogance Threatens Safety Of Air Travelers-Classified Information

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2007/12/ts ... f-air.html

I’m about to expose “classified informationâ€

[Old Ironsights]

A March 2008 update:

http://www.crimefilenews.com/2008/03/tr ... -deck.html

The TSA public relations spinners are out in full force defending their deadly, booby-trap FFDO holster design. They want to suggest that the solid week of intense training does not qualify the pilots to carry and retain guns like other federal officers.

One weeks training is shorter than agencies like the FBI but pilots don’t need the additional training on criminal law, evidence collection, rules of evidence and investigative functions. The actual FFDO firearm and tactics training is equal to that of any other federal officer’s.

I can’t even imagine a real firearms trainer teaching FFDO pilots to use any piece of equipment that allows or invites a foreign object like their “safety padlockâ€

[KirkD]

That is so preposterous, it has to be an April Fools joke. Please tell me it is.

[Old Ironsights]

Sorry. The only April Fool's Joke is the TSA itself...

[KirkD]

It looks like something planned by a committee of clued-out bureaucrats who spend their entire careers trying to justify their existence while protecting their own backsides. Trouble is, anyone who comes up with ideas like that, couldn't find their own backside with both hands.

[kimwcook]

Let me get this right (TSA), you want me to put a hasp from a lock across the trigger on a striker fired weapon and render the safety inoperative? Is that what you want me to do?

I can't believe more people haven't been injured, or worse, with this mentality. Who the H**l is in command here? A moron? This is government brilliance at it's best.

One reason I do like my 1911. Any banger that can walk and pick his nose knows you pull the trigger to make one of these type pistols fire. In other words there is no safety on a striker fired weapon.

[El Mac]

...and to further shed light on TSA's ignorance/arrogance is that they were TOLD and WARNED by the FBI's Firearms Training Unit at Quantico, VA that what they proposed was dangerously stupid.

[Leverdude]

Who the H**l is in command here

Ultimately, a man named George Bush.

The RIGHT way to handle this is simply let people carry on airplanes.

[Boomer45]

Scary stuff for sure. Too many brain dead bureaucrats running loose and making decision on things that they really don't understand

[1894]

That is so preposterous, it has to be an April Fools joke. Please tell me it is.

Nope , I saw that a week or so ago , ignorant nincompoops making regulations that they don't understand just because it makes them feel like they did some more good

[dkmlever]

OK, I spent three years in third grade but heck even I am smarter than the TSA guys! How idiotic can you get?

[Old Ironsights]

It strikes me as the diliberate, evil, sandbagging of a program that they fought tooth and nail to prevent in the first place.

So they set up the circumstances for a potentially catestrophic/lethal situation so they would have "cause" to cancel the program.

They didn't care how many people got hurt or inconvienenced, so long as they can continue to declare guns in planes to be a bad thing.

There really can't be any other explanation.

There was/is too much information and commentary by professionals to just say they were too stupid to know you don't put s foreign object into the trigger well...

[Blaine]

Who the H**l is in command here

Ultimately, a man named George Bush.

The RIGHT way to handle this is simply let people carry on airplanes.

AH, Geeeez........If you carry that logic to it's extent, then you and I and every other American is at fault, right?

[Old Ironsights]

Who the H**l is in command here

Ultimately, a man named George Bush.

The RIGHT way to handle this is simply let people carry on airplanes.

AH, Geeeez........If you carry that logic to it's extent, then you and I and every other American is at fault, right?

The problem is... the TSA is Bush's Baby, created along with "Homeland Security" by his Administration, after 9-11. There was no cause for either.

The FAA was pretty screwed up before HS/TSA... and the Bush Policies made it worse.

There are a lot of things people lob a Bush that he doesn't deserve - this, like the "Patriot Act", ain't one of them.

[TedH]

I've never seen anything so absurd.

[Leverdude]

Who the H**l is in command here

Ultimately, a man named George Bush.

The RIGHT way to handle this is simply let people carry on airplanes.

AH, Geeeez........If you carry that logic to it's extent, then you and I and every other American is at fault, right?

Nah,
What could you or I do to end that stupidity?
Bush found it fine to make several executive decisions that curtailed our rights or freedoms. He could as easilly have thrown his weight behind the people & demanded realistic sensible air security. He could have demanded that TSA respect peoples RKBA. Theres alot he could have done,,, but he didn't.
After all, theres armed guards on his plane already.

[Kismet]

Who the H**l is in command here

Ultimately, a man named George Bush.

The RIGHT way to handle this is simply let people carry on airplanes.

AH, Geeeez........If you carry that logic to it's extent, then you and I and every other American is at fault, right?

Nope, just under 48% of the voting public, actually!

Seriously, though, this kind of program is ridiculous. A strong argument can be made that pilots are too pre-occupied to act as law enforcement and that if general safety (as opposed to simply the immediate defense of the pilot) is the goal then either the other flight crew should be trained or air marshalls should be more common. If you are going to allow pilots to carry guns on planes, though, do it right! No matter the political stripe, we should all be outraged by incompetence.

Michael in NH

[piller]

Pilots used to carry. I think that ended in the 80's. The last pilot to use his gun to defend the cockpit is the one at the head of the group trying to get the guns back. The pilots don't need to be law enforcement, just able to protect the cockpit and ultimately, the plane. Oh, well. This is the result of 40+ years of voting for the worst possible people to run the government, a few notable exceptions not withstanding.

[runfiverun]

specially screened and trained pilots ?

with all those rules they probably screened only

m.i.t. graduates, my god they can fly a passenger jet !
i would think they would be able to operate a firearm.


of course i keep thinking [ board room scenario ]
we do not want this but they say were gonna do it so here is what
were gonna do so they wont to be able to do it, even though we have to let them.

[allhands]

God Bless George Bush, but it is time for a President like Teddy Roosevelt.

[2571]

I won't say anything that makes me sound like Jeremiah Wright but let me comment that I have one of those calendars counting down the days GW Bush still has in office.

[Quick Karl]

This kind of thing just disgusts me.

People get the government they deserve - when people keep fricken voting for their entitlements that is how moronic idiots like the dolts that make rules like these get into positions of power.

How fricken absurd can this country get before people are going to pull their heads out of their butts?

It won't change because most of the people in our country lack spines and we are getting the government we deserve because of it.

ALL politicians suck - Democrats AND Republicans. They just smile and lie and you choose who's lies you want to believe and defend.\

And screw Jeremiah Wright, he can go live in China and then complain about America. He should be hung in the town square.

[RAC]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/ ... lots_N.htm


More than 10% of pilots allowed to fly armed
Updated 7h 32m ago | Comments219 | Recommend32 E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions | Subscribe to stories like this
These images show a purported bullet hole in a US Airways jet. The hole is shown in the left third of the top photo and the lower center of the bottom photograph. A gunshot fired from a pistol belonging to the pilot blasted a small hole through the plane's cockpit wall.
Enlarge image Enlarge By AP
These images show a purported bullet hole in a US Airways jet. The hole is shown in the left third of the top photo and the lower center of the bottom photograph. A gunshot fired from a pistol belonging to the pilot blasted a small hole through the plane's cockpit wall.

REQUIREMENTS FOR PILOTS

For pilots to be armed, they must:

* Pass a psychological test and training course.
* Requalify after five years.
* Work for a commercial passenger airline or large cargo airline.
* Take possession of a .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun.
* Carry guns only on domestic flights.

Source: Transportation Security Administration



By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — More than one in 10 of the nation's airline pilots are cleared to carry a handgun while flying, and the number will continue to grow, according to a Transportation Security Administration projection.

The TSA, which has declined to disclose the number of armed pilots, revealed in a recent budget document that 10.8% of airline crewmembers were authorized to carry guns.

The Federal Air Marshal Service, a TSA agency that runs the armed-pilots program, reports that 85,000 to 90,000 pilots and crewmembers flying domestic passenger and cargo planes are eligible to carry a gun. That puts the number of armed pilots at about 9,500 — a figure Air Marshal spokesman Nelson Minerly did not dispute. The marshal service keeps the exact number confidential.

The TSA projects the program to grow to 16.5% of eligible pilots by the year 2011.

Aviation experts were surprised and alarmed that so many pilots are toting guns in the sky.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: Congress | Houston | Denver | New Mexico | US Airways | Transportation Security Administration | Air Line Pilots Association | Transportation Department | Federal Air Marshal Service | Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department | Greg Alter

"That's a big number compared to what I thought it would be," said aviation-security consultant Rich Roth, who said he had predicted there would be fewer than 1,000 armed pilots. The 5-year-old program trains pilots for one week and arms them with .40-caliber semiautomatic pistols.

"That's a scary number," said Joseph Gutheinz, a former Transportation Department special agent and aviation attorney in Houston. "By allowing so many pilots the opportunity to fly armed, we're giving terrorists opportunity to identify somebody who has a gun and overpower him."

Capt. Bob Hesselbein, head of security for the Air Line Pilots Association, said the number of armed pilots is "a tremendous deterrent" to hijackings. "An organized terrorist team, their challenge is to take control of the cabin, then the flight deck."

Armed pilots have come under scrutiny since March 22 when the gun of a US Airways pilot fired in the cockpit of Flight 1536 as it approached Charlotte from Denver. No one was hurt, and the plane landed safely after the bullet pierced the fuselage.

A report by the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department said the gun fired while the pilot was stowing it.

The marshal service is investigating. The firing was the first such incident, which indicates that "this isn't a problem with the program," Air Marshal spokesman Greg Alter said.

Hesselbein, whose union lobbied Congress for the program, said armed pilots are on about 15% of domestic flights.

Marcus Flagg, president of the Federal Flight Deck Officers Association, which represents armed pilots, said their numbers could grow more if training facilities expanded.

Pilots train at a federal center in New Mexico. Classes hold 48 people and have been filled or nearly filled for five years, Minerly said.

[Hillbilly]

I dont know the recent figures, but ATP rated pilots include a lot of military trained aviators.

Seems to me any guy who flew armed with a handgun for how ever many years he was in the service should be able to tote a pistol without a padlock.

But what do I know?

Jeff

[Texican]

Let me get this right (TSA), you want me to put a hasp from a lock across the trigger on a striker fired weapon and render the safety inoperative?

A padlock or handcuffs closed behind the trigger of a sidearm is a long standing way to deter unauthorized use; but never with a loaded gun. I agree with you - it was a moronic idea.

One reason I do like my 1911. Any banger that can walk and pick his nose knows you pull the trigger to make one of these type pistols fire. In other words there is no safety on a striker fired weapon.

Often times I carry a revolver. I use a hankerchief. That said, if safeties are the answer (and they aren't) why not mandate a sidearm with a magazine safety and do away with the padlock? Just pull the mag when the pilot leaves the cockpit. Makes a least as much sense; maybe that's the problem...

[Old Ironsights]

In case y'all were wondering, you too can buy and use one of these lovely holsters.

Behold, the Desantis F.D.O. Padlock available.

http://www.desantisholster.com/31l.html

(And some people on another site thought I was posting an April Fools joke...)

[Jeeps]

I still agree with that gent from NY city.

THEY SHOULD HAND OUT BASEBALL BATS WHEN YOU COME ABOARD.

[JReed]

God Bless George Bush, but it is time for a President like Teddy Roosevelt.

+1
To bad I dont see any on the horizon that fit the bill.

[Texican]

In case y'all were wondering, you too can buy and use one of these lovely holsters.
Behold, the Desantis F.D.O. Padlock available.
http://www.desantisholster.com/31l.html

Galco, too.

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?P ... atalogID=4

I doubt either would advocate 'locking' them while loaded.

[Old Ironsights]

In case y'all were wondering, you too can buy and use one of these lovely holsters.
Behold, the Desantis F.D.O. Padlock available.
http://www.desantisholster.com/31l.html

Galco, too.

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterPT3.asp?P ... atalogID=4

I doubt either would advocate 'locking' them while loaded.

Actually, Desantis does just that... which means that that is EXACTLY what the Fed Specs require of it.

The #31L is a new variant of our #01L that is the current issue for Flight Deck Officers. It is an asymmetrical pancake style holster with three slots for use as a strong side forward cant, cross draw, or strong side neutral cant. The asymmetrical design helps keep the weapon?s slide from moving out of battery when re-holstering and aids in concealment. The 31L features a reinforced upper section and provision for padlock. The purpose of the padlock hole is to secure the weapon inside of the holster when it is not being worn. This also eliminates the need to load and unload the weapon when it is to be stored safely. This holster is available immediately for the H&K P2000, and the USP Compact 9mm/40cal LEM models. In addition, we now have a 2? solid brass combination lock, style #T72, to aide in the storage of your holstered handgun for $14.50.

Go back and watch the video I linked to showing exactly why this is a BAD idea...

[Jaguarundi]

Freak'n Dumba*** !!!