Need advice please

Barcelona Rick · Post by **Barcelona Rick** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:30 am

A buddy is looking to buy a small frame 38 special. He is not going to be shooting it much...just a couple boxes to break it in and then he is going to stick it in his pocket, console in the truck and in the nightstand...he has a pretty tight budget. My first response was buy a S&W but the used models are sky high and I have heard some negatives about the new revolvers (high priced also). He has been looking at Rossi, Charter Arms. EAA and Taurus...I have zero experience with any of these brands...so does anyone have real world experience with any of these and what are y'alls opinions ?

rick

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:49 am

I've got a little Taurus Ultralight and I really like it. It's about the only CCW I carry anymore.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:50 am

I am doing a build on a Rossi ( J frame sized ) D/A revolver right now.
Once you get it open they are pretty rough inside, I always polish them up.
But they go bang every time you operate the action, from your description that is really all he wants.

Mac in Mo · Post by **Mac in Mo** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:11 am

Ruger LCR

Kevin

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:19 am

I've had a Taurus 85 (J frame size, steel frame/cylinder) for several years and I have never regretted getting it. Loves DEWC over stiff loads, 3" @ 20 yds. I was looking for a Taurus Ultra Lite in .44 Special but haven't had much luck finding one. I'm not a rabid Tarus fan, just that they have guns that seem to fit my wants/needs...

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:30 am

The Charter Arms have a lifetime warranty. If you send one back for inspection and upgrades, for $45 they will make it perfect. I would suggest something hammerless if you're (or he's) going to throw it in a pocket or glove box.

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:05 pm

I am not a small revolver person, but everyone I know who has had a Charter Arms has never complained about them.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:02 pm

I carried a Taurus 85 ultralight for quite some time. It saw a lot of day in/day out use and only ever had +P's shot in it. I never had any trouble with it. Only thing I did to it was slick it up a bit and take a coil or two off the mainspring. I gave it to my dad who still is daily carrying it.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:26 pm

I have My Moms old Charter Arms .38, and I picked up a Taurus Ultra light .38 for the Wife when We took the CCW class. Momma is no Gun buff but She had no problem with the Taurus finishing the class. for what it is and cost it does it's job.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:52 pm

I've many times carried a Charter Arms as my primary CCW gun, and never felt worried it would fail me. Less experience with Taurus, and I know 'these days' they ALL can produce lemons, but the ones I've had seem decent as well.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 pm

I really nice used S&W 642 hammerless Airweight (or 342 or 442) can be bought for $350 or less. Spend the extra (very few extra) dollars and get a S&W and you'll never regret it.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:56 pm

The tough little Ruger LCR (hammerless) or new LCRx (hammer exposed) are quite fairly priced and, if you can get around the ugly, very compact and easy to carry or conceal. You should at the very least take a look here, and then look online for the pricing. Very affordable for the quality and reliability.
http://ruger.com/products/lcr/index.html?r=y

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:07 pm

Can't say firing it to break it in then leaving it sit is a good idea. Practice is important. But, be that as it may, go with Charter or Taurus and he'll do fine.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:11 pm

If he can't get a suitable S&W... go to the LCR.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:29 pm

I'm as big of a Ruger fan as anyone, but around here the LCRs are more expensive than the S&W J-frames and ugly to boot.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:37 pm

If I was buying a gun for my wife or daughter, I might give a crud what it looks like.

My main concern is that it works and is 100% reliable.

loader · Post by **loader** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:41 pm

I have a Taurus 85 Ultralight that I carry when my I am not carrying my NAA Sidewinder .Put a couple of 1000 rounds through it without a moments problem also have a 94 2" that's fired at least as many rounds without a stutter.

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:02 pm

Have a 642 S&W that gets packed all the time & shot a lot
great little gun, fits in my back pocket just great, trouble is my Wife has discovered
how easy it carries also

ollogger

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:21 pm

FWiedner wrote:If I was buying a gun for my wife or daughter, I might give a crud what it looks like.

My main concern is that it works and is 100% reliable.

If everything else is the same, I'll choose the one that's more economical AND better looking. (and holds resale better) But that's just me using logic.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:31 pm

You guys are ignoring operative part of the original post.
There are budgetary restrictions in play.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:38 pm

I have owned a Rossi 68 for more than 10 years and have carried and shot a lot of rounds through it with no trouble at all. Now that I carry a Taurus .44 special she claims the .38.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:22 am

And in it's role, will serve her well.

redlevel42 · Post by **redlevel42** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:28 am

I was looking at j-frame S&Ws, along with the off-brands, a few weeks ago. I remarked to the salesman that I didn't see how he ever sold one of the off-brands while S&Ws were only $40-$50 more. He said they were a tough sale with that small a difference. I would never send my daughter or wife off with an off-brand. Nothing but a S&W, new or old.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:43 am

I agree with many of you. While I carried a Taurus for several years, my wife has a flatlatch model 36 and a model 442 S&W. Nothing else for her.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:09 am

Mac in Mo wrote:Ruger LCR

Kevin

+1 ... :)

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:47 am

Taurus 85 or Ruger LCR. I got my daughter the Taurus in .357, slicked the action up some...fine little gun. Cuz has the LCR which I've shot. Both fine little guns.

Rob

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:49 am

Is he a good buddy ?

Problem is even the cheap junk is getting expensive. Unless you want cheap junk used! Then ???

My take, loan him the tiny amount of difference for a decent gun!
Tell him pay me when you can, even $5 a week or what the he## ever $5 a month!

If it was my friend wanting something to save his or families life
CZ P-07
I love that gun. Extremely capable and shoots very fine.

http://shootersmagazine.com/cz-p-07-dut ... ows-about/

Have seen them recently go for $375 on sale if you can catch one otherwise around $430 but still that is cheap.
Least to save my life I consider cheap.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:13 am

if $50 more gets you a Smith, seems like a no-brainer.

Barcelona Rick · Post by **Barcelona Rick** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:54 am

Men I agree 100% that a Smith or Colt is the way to go however, there is a money issue involved. There appears to be some troublesome QC issues with S&W now. The vintage S&W revolvers have risen in price over the past year or two and are becoming difficult to locate. As an example of the new revolvers available...S&W Model 360 $599...S&W Model 642 (with internal lock) $449...again QC issues ? Rossi (not sure of Model) $299...QC ? Several Taurus Models in the low to mid $300 range...QC ? He wants to buy new if possible...

Appreciate the input...

rick

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:57 am

LCR is excellent but not front pocket sized. Get a small loan and a S&W 642,

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:08 am

jumbeaux,
Guess I was the only one who " got " the monetary restrictions.
We fortunate ones can afford the S&W's Colts Rugers.
Some folks simply do not have the means to indulge themselves in that manner.
This man seems to be facing the problem of being armed in the manner many would consider proper, or not being armed at all.
Not a pleasent prospect.

Mac in Mo · Post by **Mac in Mo** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:15 pm

I saw the "tight budget" part. I am also on a very tight budget. I had to sell something to buy my LCR. While it doesn't "look" traditional, I don't consider that aspect of a gun when I am considering one for serious business. I have my other "nice looking" revolvers to show off or carry for hunting. The LCR isn't one that you will have to worry too much about if and when it gets wear and tear. It is a tool, it works well, and I must say, I like the utilitarian look that it has.

Kevin

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:54 pm

Mescalero wrote:jumbeaux,
Guess I was the only one who " got " the monetary restrictions.
We fortunate ones can afford the S&W's Colts Rugers.
Some folks simply do not have the means to indulge themselves in that manner.
This man seems to be facing the problem of being armed in the manner many would consider proper, or not being armed at all.
Not a pleasent prospect.

You're not reading the posts. A S&W does not cost much more than a Taurus, Charter Arms, etc. and is much more reliable.
If I really wanted an economical revolver without breaking the bank I'd get past the "new only" requirement and get a good quality used one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a used gun. In fact, you can often try out (shoot) a used gun before you purchase. Can't do that at a retail store, at least not with the actual NIB gun you plan to purchase.

If I could afford $300 (plus tax?) for a new, cheapo knock-off brand, I would gladly save up $50 more and buy a good used item of a higher quality. New 642s are $379 at gun shows and used J-frames can be found for less. If they get really old, yes, the price can get high because now you're getting into collectibles instead of shooters. Pay now or pay later.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:04 pm

OK,
I apologize, I did not know top of the line handguns and not so top of the line handguns cost the same.
I thought the man had budgetary restrictions.
I guess I did not read the post properly.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:17 pm

I would not hesitate to replace my S&W AirWeight .38 Special with another just like it. Taurus has a very good warranty, which is good because they seem to have to go back quite a bit. I wouldn't buy retread tires for my daughter, and I would not trust a second string handgun to protect myself and others

jazman · Post by **jazman** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:23 pm

I do like my S&W 642, excellent gun. Only reason I got it though was my BIL needed a snubby, so I gave him my Taurus 85 CH (Concealed Hammer), which had been an excellent gun for me. I missed having a snub so got the new Smith as finances were OK at the time. He used that 85 until he passed last year, never had a problem. Taurus has a lifetime warranty, many people have attested to having to use it. So, in my mind one may get a good one with never a problem like I did, or get a not so good one that the factory will fix for you. I vote for a used S&W for a few bucks more and not worrying about it.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:06 pm

vancelw wrote:A S&W does not cost much more than a Taurus, Charter Arms, etc. and is much more reliable.

My Charter Arms revolvers (five I've owned for 20-25 years) have functioned PERFECTLY; I remain to be convinced that a S&W would somehow be functioning 'better' than they have.

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:06 pm

You pay your money and make your choice. I bought a brand new S$W 642 last year for 339.00, it has no problem hitting a bowling pin at 25 yards with +P 158 lead hollow points.
Mine has no lock on it but was brand new and is my new carry gun. The 1911 got heavy after 50

Barcelona Rick · Post by **Barcelona Rick** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:01 pm

vancelw wrote: New 642s are $379 at gun shows and used J-frames can be found for less. If they get really old, yes, the price can get high because now you're getting into collectibles instead of shooters. Pay now or pay later.

My brother has attended the last Gun Show in Ft. Worth and in Houston and looked for the magical $339 to $379 S&W 442/642...none zero to be found...cheapest was $429...used Model 36's have risen in price also. That being said my friend now has a S&W M&P (pre-Model 10) from my modest collection...on loan until he doesn't need it any longer...not a snub but it will do. I do appreciate the assistance...never got an answer on the QC issues with the new Smiths...

rick

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:31 am

Rick, your question is certainly understood. I know a person in NYS who took up shooting a few years back, along with his wife - and both have graduated to instructor.
He loves his Charter Arms Bulldog.

Barcelona Rick · Post by **Barcelona Rick** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:47 am

I guess what throws/confuses my buddy & I is the fact that most of you gentlemen will not hesitate to sing the praises of Rossi or Taurus Braztech lever guns but seem to think that neither of those manufactures can produce a reliable revolver...I have only owned S&W and Colt revolvers hence my question...

rick

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:00 am

I have a Rossi M877 that has never failed to shoot or given me the least bit of trouble...

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:01 am

Confuses me too Rick

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:27 pm

confusion notwithstanding, he asked for opinions and got them
I have a Taurus rimfire on my want list, because I know the Smith would be more than I could swing.

Barcelona Rick · Post by **Barcelona Rick** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:35 pm

jumbeaux wrote: He has been looking at Rossi, Charter Arms. EAA and Taurus...I have zero experience with any of these brands...so does anyone have real world experience with any of these and what are y'alls opinions ?

rick

bulldog1935 I asked for real world experiences and opinions on these 4 revolvers...I am a S&W fan but my newest was made in 1979 and I have been reading some very negative things about the current crop of J Frames...however, I do appreciate the responses...

rick

Homer · Post by **Homer** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:29 pm

Taurus Model 85 stainless steel chambered in 38 Special is what I'd recommend for a man on a budget http://www.taurususa.com/product-detail ... umbseries= . I've carried it in a Galco "Fletch" holster for well over 10 years (I think 15). I carry it when climbing trees, when crawling under cars, when snoozing in my chair late at night - I carry it everywhere. I own Smith and Ruger handguns as well, and this Taurus is every bit as reliable and sturdy. I've owned Charter Arms and Colt DA revolvers and consider the Taurus more reliable and sturdy than them. I owned two other 85's before the one I carry and both proved to be reliable, although once a cylinder unscrewed after extensive shooting and Taurus fixed it. But I've had other brand guns break before as well. If you use something a lot it will wear.

Smith may be of slightly better quality (and perhaps better finished), but not enough to justify the much higher price. Rugers are worth every penny, but are more expensive than a Taurus (I am not that familiar with the new plastic Rugers and can only vouch for the steel ones). I will say that I think that the Smith and Rugers are more accurate than the Taurus, but the Taurus is plenty accurate for social work.

That being said, I must admit that I was tempted a couple weeks back to sell my Taurus and add $350 to buy a new Smith 642 "Pro Series" snubby. But I instead decided to save some money, buy the Smith and give the Taurus to my granddaughter - and I care a whole lot more about her than I do your friend. You can figure that out. That's my opinion on the subject.

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:04 pm

I wouldn't give a Taurus to anyone I actually was concerned about their surviving.

Taurus makes some good guns, and quite a few bad ones. If he's on a budget, waiting for it to get replaced or fixed by Taurus would be even worse, now he's doubly stuck.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:12 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
vancelw wrote:A S&W does not cost much more than a Taurus, Charter Arms, etc. and is much more reliable.
My Charter Arms revolvers (five I've owned for 20-25 years) have functioned PERFECTLY; I remain to be convinced that a S&W would somehow be functioning 'better' than they have.

I don't think a Charter (which I don't have anything at all against) makes one as small and light as the AirWeight. Same with Rossi....Lot's of stout five shots out there, just that most of them are too heavy.

wm · Post by wm » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:18 pm

Best recommendation I can give is to tell you what I use......I stake my life on them......I carry a Charter Arms 44 spl or my S&W model 36 38 spl with 3" barrel. The extra inch of barrel is unnoticeable during carry but the firearm points so much more naturally. I can honestly say I am twice as accurate in aimed as well as point shooting with the 3" barrel. YMMV

I have in the past used a Taurus 6 shot snubby with a 2.5" barrel and was very pleased with that revolver. Traded it to my BIL 15 years ago and have made attempts off and on to get it back.

The one revolver I would NOT consider at this time is the Armscor copy of the Detective Special. Very disappointed in the one sample I have fired. It was that bad.

One last thought......if your buddy can swing it try and buy a similar size and barrel length 22 lr to what ever 38 spl he buys. It makes for cheap practice, helps get the fairer sex involved in shooting, and what the hell......if one revolver is good, then two is better.

Wm

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:25 pm

S&W costs vary, too.
A 642 Airweight shoots .38+P and costs $350 to $450 depending on where you find it.
A S&W 340PD Airlite shoots .357 mag and weighs 3 oz less....costs twice as much as the 642.

I own a 340 and love it, but you're not gonna shoot many .357 mag loads out of it. Recoil is brutal. So if .38 is all you're going to shoot, go ahead and save $500 and get the 642 or similar.
I've owned one each of Rossi, Taurus, Charter Arms small frame revolvers...didn't need to learn that lesson twice

I've never owned a Rossi levergun. Didn't like the looks and feel of them. Spent my money (much more of it) gladly on Winchester and Browning 92s and have never regretted it. If I could afford an original, I would. I'm glad folks that bought Rossis and like them were able to save some bucks. I'm tight, too when I can get away with it.
I have also read of problems with some S&W guns. I've owned several and still own several and haven't had problems with any of them.
Some like the Ruger LCRs...despite their MSRP they seem to cost more around here than Smiths. I've shot one and didn't hate it, but I wasn't impressed. I don't mind a radical design if it functions to suit me and there's a reason for it. (I'll be buying a R51 soon

) My friend loves his LCR, but he bought it thinking that S&W was out of his price range when he actually gave more for the LCR.

I still own a pre-79 Model 60 Chief's Special. It's often the gun I grab on a whim on my way out the door. It's probably dispatched more varmints than any gun I own. But it weighs a lot more than my Airlite so the Airlite is what I carry concealed.