.44 Trapper AE ejection problem

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:55 am

Just bought what appears to be un-fired in like new condition .44 mag Model 94 trapper US made with tang safety, not a scratch or mark on it, bore mirror shiney..

It barely dribbles out the empty cartridges and last one will not eject without cartridge under it pushing it our as it chambers. Loaded rounds even worse. I push in on the ejector and seems like very little spring pressure...compared to other centerfire designs I have. Haven't owned a 94 since I was a kid 50 yrs. ago, and that thudy-thudy never had a problem. Could this be a bad spring from factory???? The extractor holds shell all the way back OK. Thinking of taking it apart and stretch that ejector spring out or put new one in. I have read the 94 with pistol cartridges can be problematic, but this just isn't good...

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:01 am

Welcome to the forum and work that Lever like U mean it. Winchesters shouldn't dribble, that's for marlins.

Now U mentioned last round and then a round under that. Wow ! 2 Win AE ejection probs, I feel a conspiracy.
Perry

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:07 pm

The racking speed does not matter,.. still does it.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:53 pm

Ejector spring...it should be real hard to depress by finger.
Do check extracter for gunk under it too.
N.

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:18 pm

This ejector has a step in it also? Does not seem it can push shell enough to right? Other pictures I see of them in 30-30 do not have such a step? Is step only in .44? There is no gunk whole rifle is spotless. Almost cleaner then when NIB. No marks on any screws etc.

Photo of 30-30 ejector

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Is Ur extractor riding all the way over the rim ? If not that would explain a dribble, nothing to hold it for the ejection.
Perry

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:41 pm

pwl44m wrote:Is Ur extractor riding all the way over the rim ? If not that would explain a dribble, nothing to hold it for the ejection.
Perry

See my first post, extractor is holding rim correctly.

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:51 pm

pwl44m wrote:Welcome to the forum and work that Lever like U mean it. Winchesters shouldn't dribble, that's for marlins.
Now U mentioned last round and then a round under that. Wow ! 2 Win AE ejection probs, I feel a conspiracy.
Perry

My meaning as I read it, with no cartridge being lifted from below it, the last empty or loaded shell will not eject. And rounds before the last are no way like a normal ejection, it is just the shell being moved out and up by upcoming cartridge which then pushes it from under extractor's grip and shoves it over side of action. Seems to me ejector should be pushing hard enough on rim for shell to spring out as soon as it's mouth clears chamber. Drawing pictures with words on this subject is not easy as individuals will interpret everything differently..it seems...

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:57 pm

WELCOME... :)

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:23 pm

Take the bolt out and check the ejector for travel, it's spring.

IIRC some lever links can bind some on the ejector, fouling it.

N.

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:57 pm

Nath wrote:Take the bolt out and check the ejector for travel, it's spring.

IIRC some lever links can bind some on the ejector, fouling it.

N.

I can depress the ejector throughout the bolts travel except when breech completely closed, nothing stopping it's rearward travel. But spring pressure on it seems really weak.
Still would like to know why .44 ejector is "notched" for cartridge rim and 30-30 is not?
Anyone tell me best place to order parts now?? Midwest Gun Works?

If anyone worked on this since new, they were good, not even any shiny marks on the screws.
I bought it from a dealer who is a Winchester Authorized Repair Center, who told me it had never been fired in their opinion. When I first inspected it, I made two 240 gr. dummy rounds to test it, and worked the action slow so I would not throw rounds on their glass cabinet infront of me. Seemed it worked OK at that time but, I think I tilted the action toward my palm which made the rounds roll out easy. I suspect a bad spring.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:08 pm

I looked at My Win trapper -45 colt and it looks just like Urs. U said it looks new and unfired, hard to imagine needing parts on a new Gun. Send it to Me and I will take a look at it.

Yes drawing a mental picture is tuff sometimes, U mean it one way and I take it another. Do hope U get it figured out.
Perry

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:25 pm

pwl44m wrote:I looked at My Win trapper -45 colt and it looks just like Urs. U said it looks new and unfired, hard to imagine needing parts on a new Gun. Send it to Me and I will take a look at it. Yes drawing a mental picture is tuff sometimes, U mean it one way and I take it another. Do hope U get it figured out.
Perry

When you are extracting an empty case slowly, does the ejector force the shell out as soon as the shell mouth clears the chamber?

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:29 pm

Welcome to the best gun forum there is. There are plenty of 94 experts here and they will help you get it working right. Just don't send it to Perry, he will lose your return address for sure.

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:32 pm

JerryB wrote:Welcome to the best gun forum there is. There are plenty of 94 experts here and they will help you get it working right. Just don't send it to Perry, he will lose your return address for sure.

Come now Jerry, where is Ur Christmas spirit ?
@ pilot, I haven't shot Mine since I first got it about 5 years ago but don't remember any problems.
Perry

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:15 pm

pwl44m wrote:
JerryB wrote:Welcome to the best gun forum there is. There are plenty of 94 experts here and they will help you get it working right. Just don't send it to Perry, he will lose your return address for sure.
Come now Jerry, where is Ur Christmas spirit ?
@ pilot, I haven't shot Mine since I first got it about 5 years ago but don't remember any problems.
Perry

I just need some conformation that the ejector and extractor are all thats needed in this design to properly eject. Or does the system depend on a push from new shell and carrier from below to throw cartridge out? I don't remember ever having to rack my 30-30 with all my might to not have it throw an empty quite a distance.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:09 pm

180pilot wrote:
pwl44m wrote:
JerryB wrote:Welcome to the best gun forum there is. There are plenty of 94 experts here and they will help you get it working right. Just don't send it to Perry, he will lose your return address for sure.
Come now Jerry, where is Ur Christmas spirit?
@ pilot, I haven't shot Mine since I first got it about 5 years ago but don't remember any problems.
Perry
I just need some conformation that the ejector and extractor are all thats needed in this design to properly eject. Or does the system depend on a push from new shell and carrier from below to throw cartridge out? I don't remember ever having to rack my 30-30 with all my might to not have it throw an empty quite a distance.

and Welcome to THE Forum.

I would venture to say that it's the ejector. However, it may be not be just a weak spring... I've had brass shavings get between the ejector & bolt surface that slows the action of the ejector enough that ejection is weak.

From that picture it appears that the bolt encloses the cartridge rim. There are several different ejectors and ejector springs for the mdl 94. 2 different ejector springs listed for the .44Rem:
14 U346401510 EJECTOR SPRING, 44 REMINGTON AND 45 COLT &
14 U346401830 EJECTOR SPRING, 44 REMINGTON, 357 MAGNUM, 45 COLT; but, only one ejector:
16 U341850250 EJECTOR, SHORT (1-1/4") 44 REM AND 45 COLT

There are two different bolts that use the 1-¼" ejector, one of which is for the .44Rem and .45Colt. The other is not cartridge specific... so I must assume it is for the .30-30 family of cases. The .45 & .44 rims being so close in diameter and thickness that both Marlin and Winchester use the same breech block or bolt for both.

What is the inside diameter of the bolt face?

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:01 am

I've only put 12 rds. through new unfired gun, so it's not a brass build up. And as I keep saying,...........The ejector moves in and out just fine, but has very little spring pressure. I've seen the parts numbers for the parts that are different. And will have to ask parts dealer, they must be serial number specific. I will order all of them and see how they compare with what is in my bolt. If I tilt action just a little to the right everything ejects. There is not enough spring pressure on ejector and/or incorrect parts.
I still need 2 questions answered here, does your Trapper .44 or.45 eject empty case as soon as the case mouth leaves the chamber?? or when new round hits it from below? Do you have last loaded round left laying in the action when unloading by racking rounds through action?

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:20 am

Now have a new wrinkle, ran one cartridge in loading port, racked lever, and factory cartridge flipped over rails and ended up with bullet facing bolt face, and rim jammed against chamber mouth...........my new rifle is an acrobat, I'm beginning to see why this was for sale now.....and I paid top dollar.....

And yes, the guide rail screws are tight!

Have to see if dealer will take it back, bought for use with 340 gr, Buffalo Bore +P which I carry also in Ruger revolver for Bear protection in my Cessna. ( Only rifle that will handle them without mod. according to BB), Have absolutely no confidence in this rifle now. It also fails one of my dangerous game trials, it jams when cycled upside down, about 50% of the time. Or cartridge falls completely out 30% of time on opening stroke with both 240 and 320 grain bullets. Oh yeah, your second shot might be from any position if mister Griz's charge knocks you down.....OK, I know I'm going to hear not enough gun for Griz, Please lets not go there. I've carried everything from .454 Casull to Magnum 12 Ga. hard cast slugs, 45-70, and .375 H&H. I know what "my" minimum is/by how much weight I want to carry.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l ... etail&p=54

And this does not look right, guide rail on right side, it's edge looks turned up and galled, this was that way before I ran any rounds through it:

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:12 am

Is this a Miroku production or a USRA mdl 94AE?

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:30 am

If it's galled, a burr needs to be removed from the bolt. If it's an ugly casting, that's normal for an American made tang AE.
The stepped ejector is normal, the weak spring is not.
Flipping a heavy bullet filled cartridge can be cured by shimming the cartridge guides a bit to slow the cartridge down. That short cartridge is way forward on the carrier and has a bit more velocity than the 30-30.

Regarding these guns, they don't get the care of hand-fitting the old ones did and they still need it. That's why they are as cheap to buy as they are. The 94 was designed for the longer 30-30 and some of the guns have trouble with pistol length cartridges.

IMO, Win 92 would suit you better. A Rossi will still need some hand fitting though to run like John Moses Browning designed them to run - like butter... a new production Miroku made might not. Miroku makes fine, fine guns.

They are worth taking the time to hand fit, it's not hard to do and you sound like you are very mechanically inclined.

BenT · Post by **BenT** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:32 am

From the top, the cartridge guides should be a mirror image of each other. I have two 44 mag guides in my hand comparing them.

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:17 pm

This is "Made in New Haven Conn". Would like to test one that works correctly, I had heard all the squawks about the long action with pistol rds, but didn't think would be this bad.

M92 and Rossi too short for 340 gr. BB hard cast bullets and so is Ruger 44/77. This loading is a whole new animal. Watch some of the videos of it on youtube, if you can stand some of the goofs doing the shooting from revolvers and their gutter language. Would easily completely penetrate inland Griz skull from 4-5 inch barrel. And, logistics greatly simplified with one load for revolver and rifle....
Remember Griz circling my little packpacking tent one night on Coleville River, and the push feed scoped 300 mag. Rem 700 laying on top of my sleeping bag. which had just used up 5 rds. ( 180gr. Nosler Partitions) to the chest area to down a Bull Moose. Felt like a BB gun...

Shiming guides, I assume to make opening narrower, isn't this limited by bolt width as it's bottom has to slide between them? Every online disassembly video and texts say do not remove the guides, as if some special magical fitting was done at factory???

This is getting old, I've had to rework just about every rifle bought in last 15 yrs. to make them feed correctly. Factory QC seems nonexistent.. Savage 110-116 the worst with sheet metal feed lips. Bought one new 116 7mm RUM when blind magazine was loaded and bolt opened all the rounds would fly out of the action at once, and if you could get one chambered, the extractor would drop the empty on top of the stack jamming action. Took a month of getting different ejector parts from factory and re-shaping feed lips to get it to work. Its now a 11 lb. .338 RUM with Pacnor barrel, my 600 yd. Elk stick. Only have total confidence in my controlled feed FN 98 Mausers and CZ bolt guns for things that bite.

This is my first Winchester lever in 45 years, greatly disapointed.. If only Ruger had made the magazine longer for the 77/44. One of those in SS would have been first choice..to try, only .2lb more then Trapper.

Still question,.. where best to buy parts for this, dealer already sent paper work to state so I'm stuck with it. And, he definitely does not want to refund $700 I paid for it. Looks like I'll be in shop smithing this one, I wouldn't even consider selling it until I get it working correctly..another project gun, just what I wanted........................

Thank you

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:17 pm

MGW has right hand guide.
But, lists two different springs for .44 ejector

U346401510 44 Rem, 45 Colt
U346401830 44 Rem, 357 Mag., 45 Colt

What's the difference??????

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:43 pm

180pilot,

Since the 44s and 45 Win 94 AE Trappers are the same internally, here is a couple pics of my 1985 vintage .45 Colt:

This is a composite view of the bolt:

Breach Bolt Mantage web.JPG

From the side views you can see how far the ejector sits out from the face of the bolt. And you can get a clear view of what the ejector spring should be.
These ejectors have an off set. If they get bent they will bind up and not eject properly. They are not as strong as the top eject ejectors.
If yours is bent I'd replace it too.

This is a view down into the top of the action showing both cartridge guides:

Receiver Top web.JPG

As was said above they are a mirror image of each other on the top.

I do not know what the difference is between the two ejector springs. But I would either buy one of each, or the one that specifies 44 Mag and .45 Colt.

I'd also replace that right side ejector in your rifle. Something isn't right with it.
(( I once had a Rossi 92 copy in .45 Colt. It would not feed anything, not even factory ammo when I got it. The gunsmith adjusted the cartridge guides by shimming them to reduce the space between them. Worked great.))
I'd replace the right guide before I played with shimming it though.

Here is some views of the bolt face:

AE 45 - bolt face from top web.JPG

AE 45 - bolt face top forward web.JPG

I hope this helps a bit. This .45 Colt Trapper has well over 3,000 rounds through it and has never missed a beat except on the rare occasion when I short stroked the lever.

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:54 pm

What Joe said.

Somewhere along the line there was a change in the bolt. When that was, I don't know.. you'll probably have to disassemble the bolt and measure your spring. I'd then call MGW and see which is proper. They may be able to tell from the serial #, but don't count on it.

Sounds like what you really need is a Big Horn Armory mdl 89...

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:12 pm

Excellent posting Joe.

The 94 may seem complicated but they are not really. I do have a personal grudge to the last tang safety models. The one I had in 30wcf would not shoot at all....not the OP's problem but while I could not fix mine an ejection issue is small fry by comparison to fix!

Don't give up...you'll have your heavy thumper working soon.

N.

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:20 pm

Griff wrote:What Joe said.

Somewhere along the line there was a change in the bolt. When that was, I don't know.. you'll probably have to disassemble the bolt and measure your spring. I'd then call MGW and see which is proper. They may be able to tell from the serial #, but don't count on it.

Sounds like what you really need is a Big Horn Armory mdl 89...

Too pretty for me, should get off butt and finish ultra light .458 win. / FN 1950 Mauser project in my pile. Also just got .375 RCM Sav. SS Alaskan Bush 7.5 lbs and appears Sav. is using steel extractor now? Haven't had time to investigate. Having blued guns rust in two days in AK. Trying to replace most of my pieces with SS, or large can of Eezox has to go with me now.

Yes in list for extractors .44, two lengths of extractors used, different spring for each I would imagine. My question why the change? for a problem improvement????? See .44 .45 bolts are "obsolete" but they list a "short ejector type" no cal. listed with it?? Hoping someone with experience with this will cross this post sometime soon.....

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:26 pm

MGW will know. They were USRAC's repair facility and MGW owns all the NOS parts from USRAC.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:31 pm

Shiming guides, I assume to make opening narrower, isn't this limited by bolt width as it's bottom has to slide between them? Every online disassembly video and texts say do not remove the guides, as if some special magical fitting was done at factory???

There's nothing special about the guides. You don't even need to pull any other part to get to them. I've modded several sets to allow a longer than normal cartridge to run well.

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:53 pm

I'll have better idea what's going on after I get this apart, have to get under truck and install new Bilstiens,...Ugh...later..

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:26 pm

I just looked at my 2002-vintage Winchester Trapper in .45LC. It too has lousy ejection, always has. The ejector spring is very anemic. A project (not yet to the top of my list) is to seriously stretch that ejector spring to exert some serious ejection shove onto the brass.

Cheers,

Carl

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:34 pm

Tycer wrote:Shiming guides, I assume to make opening narrower, isn't this limited by bolt width as it's bottom has to slide between them? Every online disassembly video and texts say do not remove the guides, as if some special magical fitting was done at factory???

There's nothing special about the guides. You don't even need to pull any other part to get to them. I've modded several sets to allow a longer than normal cartridge to run well.

And the same can be done with the mdl 1892s if the cartridge OAL will still feed onto the carrier and clear the front of the frame as it rises up. Even that can be lengthened a tiny bit... All that, and in a stronger action to boot!

Nothing really... they just pulled a part out of the appropriate bin and screwed it in place. Parts stack-up could bit 'em every-once in awhile, but... they'd just remove and replace the part with one that did work... usually led to sloppy tolerances. And there is quite a bit of tolerance at the bottom of the bolt, between the guides.

I can't really tell if it's the angle of the photos, but it does look as though that right guide has the rim slot farther back than the left. Unlike a mdl 1892, it doesn't really matter which guide you shim...

In looking at the 2005 parts book again, there are different guides for the .45 Colt vs. the .44Rem & .44WCF guides. It could have an incorrect guide in there...

180pilot, I don't own a 94AE at all, let alone one in a pistol caliber... but from what I've seen and read of others experiences... VERY few of these left the factory without some kind of problem. You certainly ain't the lone wolf!

pwl44m · Post by **pwl44m** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:01 pm

Ok Pilot, pulled the 94 AE / 45 colt out again today. From Urs , newpighunters and Mine they seem to be dribblers.

Not sure this is the way it is supposed to be but it is. I first tried to load the mag with empty brass, they didn't load at all so I fed one by hand and tried the ejection process-dribble. And yes it did try to eject as soon as it left the chamber. I tried it easy which left the case just laying on the carrier. Then I tried it with a little authority which was better but not like My 30-30 (which I tried also, flipped the rounds to china). Then I tried My Rossi 92/44-40 and it also flipped them out. I don't have another AE to try but surely Someone else does that would like to chime in. I can push My ejector in but it doesn't seem overly easy. At this point I don't see a new spring helping matters any. U might just try stretching Ur spring to see if that helps, which I doubt. I don't think it is the ejector or spring or guides that is at fault.
U have Me curious now, when I have more time I will play with it some.
Perry

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:09 pm

Griff wrote:
Tycer wrote:Shiming guides, I assume to make opening narrower, isn't this limited by bolt width as it's bottom has to slide between them? Every online disassembly video and texts say do not remove the guides, as if some special magical fitting was done at factory???

There's nothing special about the guides. You don't even need to pull any other part to get to them. I've modded several sets to allow a longer than normal cartridge to run well.
And the same can be done with the mdl 1892s if the cartridge OAL will still feed onto the carrier and clear the front of the frame as it rises up. Even that can be lengthened a tiny bit... All that, and in a stronger action to boot!

Nothing really... they just pulled a part out of the appropriate bin and screwed it in place. Parts stack-up could bit 'em every-once in awhile, but... they'd just remove and replace the part with one that did work... usually led to sloppy tolerances. And there is quite a bit of tolerance at the bottom of the bolt, between the guides.

I can't really tell if it's the angle of the photos, but it does look as though that right guide has the rim slot farther back than the left. Unlike a mdl 1892, it doesn't really matter which guide you shim...

In looking at the 2005 parts book again, there are different guides for the .45 Colt vs. the .44Rem & .44WCF guides. It could have an incorrect guide in there...

180pilot, I don't own a 94AE at all, let alone one in a pistol caliber... but from what I've seen and read of others experiences... VERY few of these left the factory without some kind of problem. You certainly ain't the lone wolf!

Slots are very close to even, but right side guide is much thinner because of the galling and upturned edge. I don't feel any rubbing? Almost appears the guide was put in that way.....????

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:33 am

My 357 pings them out, annoyingly I loose cases.
Are you sure the extracter is not weak?
It would give these symptoms if it was not holding the rim strong enough!

N.

new pig hunter · Post by **new pig hunter** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:51 am

+1 Perry .... I ease out the brass, it just lays there, no ejection out of the action.

I'm confident my Trapper ejection system is designed to eject the brass as soon as the front edge of the brass clears the chamber during extraction because the ejector face is always pressing against the brass. And because the extractor is about 180 degrees from the ejector, the rim of the brass will rotate around the extractor, as the brass gets shoved by the ejector. Hence, an up & out flip of the brass, assuming a hard shove by the extractor.

But, because the ejector spring force in my Trapper is a lot less than I believe it should be (or would like it to be), the brass doesn't get much of a shove as it begins it's rotation. Hence the minimal "flip" or no flip at all.

I don't know if more spring force will solve the "problem" .... if indeed it is a problem, as opposed to simply being a big annoyance. Sounds like a science project is in order to stretch the ejector spring to provide more force.

Cheers,

Carl

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:10 pm

Stretching springs is only a temporary fix. Coil springs can take a set too. So if the ejector spring was week from the start, stretching it will only last a while.

My 1985 vintage will chuck a loaded round out and over my right shoulder with ease. It's unaltered so the spring is factory original.

I'd still buy both springs and put the heaviest one in.

It could be, just a theory, that USRAC went to the one size fits all spring after the .357 was introduced. A cost reduction thing. Since the .357 cases are smaller and lighter than the 44 / 45s they wouldn't need as much oomph to eject them.
But put that lighter spring in a 44 or 45 and the cases dribble out.

Just a theory but it works for me.

Joe

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:19 pm

Yeah pushing an empty out is easier then a live round. I think they were trying for the minimum needed so case would not go up more then out, and would not hit a scope. And this probably required more tuning then fitters will willing to cope with on assembly line with the shorter lighter cases. That notch in the pistol cal. extractors still bothers me, that reduces the "stroke" distance of the ejector. I don't plan on a scope, so may try machining a 30-30 ejector without the notch to fit, over my shoulder would be fine.....

Or if new springs are weak too, give Wolff a call and get some good spring stock from him and cut to fit.

A spring actuated ejector should put enough force on a loaded round to really fling it out as soon as bullet tip clears chamber. IF extractor lets rim go of rim before that, the ejector has nothing to push against and rotate round up and out. My extractor is holding cartridge for full rearward travel of bolt, but if it's the last round, it just lays there. Previous rounds are shoved out by rounds coming up on carrier, ejector does not supply any push. Some rounds jam, against chamber mouth, some just barely roll out over the low cut ejection cutout.

Think about a action with a fixed ejector, like a Mauser or Ruger, the bolt pulls the cartridge all the way back until the fixed ejector pushes it out. The faster the rearward bolt movement, the farther the ejection. On a push feed with spring ejector mounted in bolt. like a Rem 700 that shell gets flung out as soon as it clears the chamber, user does not have control of the force. That's why I question those who say of 94 "rack it hard". If ejector is working as designed, speed of bolt should not matter, unless, and I speculate here, Winchester decided for some reason to rely on the upcoming shell in carrier to help with the lazy ejection.....

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:27 pm

Why do you keep going around and around in your speculations? Just tare the blooming thing down and fix it

N.

180pilot · Post by **180pilot** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:28 pm

Nath wrote:Why do you keep going around and around in your speculations? Just tare the blooming thing down and fix it
N.

Quail and pidgeon hunting more important to me now, and my shop is full of other projects, But, more importantly, when researching such problems online, I always wait for someone who has actually fixed the problem to surface if possible, surprising how long that takes sometimes.... And, I'm an aircraft mechanic, everything done correctly, first time, no room for mistakes. Don't believe my speculations are going "round and round" they are all centered on the dynamics of the failure. And, still waiting for someone with an actual .44 mag. Trapper to tell me his rifle flings the loaded and unloaded rounds out correctly. So I know it is doable. Otherwise, just replacing parts could be beating a dead horse. Time to sell it and move on... and I do not "tare" into anything. I have found research and other's histories of fixing the problems the most important part of any such project.

Happy Holidays.