OT - CCW? Yes or no and why?

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:27 am

Joe,
I don't think you would recognize Phoenix anymore, a lot of growth.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:55 am

Swampman wrote:I don't normally consider church, the post office, work (well maybe work), or resturants "dangerous havens for the criminals."

That's a joke, right?

Handguns are weapons of opporunity. If you don't have it on you it is worthless and even if you do have it, it only to buy you time to get to your real gun.

I carry everywhere. I just don't go everywhere.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:46 am

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
Swampman wrote:I don't normally consider church, the post office, work (well maybe work), or resturants "dangerous havens for the criminals."
That's a joke, right?

Handguns are weapons of opporunity. If you don't have it on you it is worthless and even if you do have it, it only to buy you time to get to your real gun.

I carry everywhere. I just don't go everywhere.

+1 Amen and for me the real gun is a PUMA M92 SS 20" 45 Colt loaded with Corbons behind the seat of the PU

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:02 am

In LA County you can't get a permit, unless you're Robert Blake.

I haven't tried though, I don't own a handgun. Am thinking about getting one for the old homestead. It's almost the season where the patio door is generally open, somebody could rush in if they wanted to.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:01 am

It's illegal to carry a gun into the places I listed. It's not worth a felony charge and 10 years in jail to me.

"think again about how many times you sign your name when you buy a gun."

That stays in the store where you bought the gun. Someone has to dig through a huge pile of yellow forms to find that info. Not so with your permit. One click of a mouse and they've got your number.

You go ahead. I think I'll pass.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:03 am

mescalero1 wrote:Jeeps,
What caliber is your camp carbine?

.45 all the way brother. If there comin' in there goin' down

I bought it used, missing the front sight and having a folding rear.

Tasco Bantam on it ATM. Been meaning to look for a folding stock for her.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:36 am

Swampman wrote:
That stays in the store where you bought the gun. Someone has to dig through a huge pile of yellow forms to find that info. Not so with your permit. One click of a mouse and they've got your number.

You go ahead. I think I'll pass.

What about the background check? When that gets done, they know ya bought one. No digging required.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:46 am

claybob86 wrote:
Swampman wrote:
That stays in the store where you bought the gun. Someone has to dig through a huge pile of yellow forms to find that info. Not so with your permit. One click of a mouse and they've got your number.

You go ahead. I think I'll pass.
What about the background check? When that gets done, they know ya bought one. No digging required.

Of all the guns I've bought on my permit, I currently own 2. The rest have been sold. "They" can show up, but if the guns are gone, they're gone.

Carrying concealed is carrying concealed. If someone can tell you have a gun, it aint concealed and is open carry, which is illegal where I live.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:13 am

Just meant that in more general terms. They may not know exactly what you bought, but they know you're a gun owner are from the NICS. I know they're not supposed to keep a permanent record of that, but...

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:26 am

Jeeps,
Mine is .45 also,nice gun huh?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:32 am

FWIW...

I answered "WHY" and "why I carry where I'm not "allowed"" on my campus thread....

RandyC · Post by **RandyC** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:04 pm

I have mine and glad I do. In Tennessee it's a Handgun Carry Permit so theoretically you can open carry. Lotsa luck with that in Nashville.

Supposedly the law was written that way so folks who inadvertently flashed their sidearm wouldn't be prosecuted.

And I'm not admitting on the internet any intention of breaking the law on where I will or won't carry. Yeah, I'm probably a little paranoid.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:16 pm

Swampman wrote:It's illegal to carry a gun into the places I listed. It's not worth a felony charge and 10 years in jail to me..

Thats a better qualifier than saying you feel safe there. I feel safe almost everywhere but recognize that can change quickly.

"think again about how many times you sign your name when you buy a gun."

That stays in the store where you bought the gun. Someone has to dig through a huge pile of yellow forms to find that info. Not so with your permit. One click of a mouse and they've got your number.

You go ahead. I think I'll pass.

I guess in theory your right but I'd bet the reality is different. In CT anyway the store gets a copy & the state gets a copy. I dont work there but I bet the first thing they do is enter the info into a computer. I also dont believe for a minute that NICS dont collect data.
But whatever floats your boat.

The only way I can legally posess a handgun outside my home is with a permit so I have one. I believe its a "pistol permit" not a "conceled carry permit" but our law has a suitability clause in it & I'd bet people crying about open carry would make them question my suitability, so I dont even think of it.
I'd have one anyway even if I could have one loaded in the car. I spend alot of time walking around.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:00 pm

YEP.... I HAVE ONE AND I CARRY...MOST OF THE TIME...
IF YOU SEE WHAT I SEE ON A DAILY BASIS YOU WOULD CARRY TOO....
DRUG DEALERS...ADDICTS, HOOKERS...HOMELESS...THUGS...
WELFARE RECEIPIANTS...THAT REFUSE TO WORK....
I NEED TO GET A JOB SOMEWHERE ELSE...

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:07 pm

"I also dont believe for a minute that NICS dont collect data."

If they do, they do it illegally.

FL doesn't use the Federal system. We have our own.

A felony charge would prevent me from ever owning another gun. It's not worth it.

I only need a permit to carry concealed. You should move down south, were men are still free.

Jesus Christ protects me. If he wants me dead, neither a permit nor a pistol will keep me on this hell hole of a planet.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:39 pm

I only need a permit to carry concealed.

Dont mean anything unless you carry openly every where except where its illegal. I agree its not worth the felony conviction.

You should move down south, were men are still free.

If your free why worry about he felonies?

FL doesn't use the Federal system. We have our own.

They may manage it, CT is the same, our state police do the NICS check, some states call the local FBI to do it, but it accesses the same database.

I know its illegal, but does that matter if theyre the ones that enforce the laws? I dont believe for a minute that the FBI higher ups or other govt nosybodies would let this opportunity slip thru their fingers.

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:41 pm

penna. issuses ccw. i have one. wouldn't be without one.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:06 pm

Swampman wrote:It's illegal to carry a gun into the places I listed. It's not worth a felony charge and 10 years in jail to me.

..............................

All the places you list, church, the post office, work , resturants have all had mad men shooting innocent people and it's happened more often than you hear about. This is because it's not usually heavily covered by the new if the attacks were stopped by an armed citizen or some sort of security on scene.
One of the benefits of free men is personal choice, so I have no problem with your decision not to carry. As for the fear of a felony, that's what defense lawyers are for and unless you were doing something stupid while carrying in the wrong place the lawyer won't have that hard of a job getting it at least pleaded down.
Maybe your experiences are different in Florida but that's pretty much how it plays out in Texas. So, I chose life.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:45 pm

Selling everything I own to hire a lawyer, isn't high on my list of things to do. I believe in being a law abiding citizen. I believe the Bible teaches that. Don't talk to me about illegal aliens, if you don't believe the law appiles to what you do too.

Double standards aren't for those of us who try to be ethical in our conduct.

I can legally have a gun in my car without registering myself with the state as a gun owner. That's enough for me.

The permits are a joke IMO. The excessive restrictions make them useless.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:27 pm

Leverdude wrote: I know its illegal, but does that matter if theyre the ones that enforce the laws? I dont believe for a minute that the FBI higher ups or other govt nosybodies would let this opportunity slip thru their fingers.

I believe the FBI actually admitted publicly that they were retaining the data, and knew it was illegal (the NRA insisted that the 'Brady' check data NOT be permanently retained as part of their support of the law

), and furthermore, told the court or reporter or whoever that they intended to KEEP retaining the data, whether it was illegal or not.

It would be nice if we peasants were allowed to just disregard laws we found inconvenient, with NO repercussions...!

I did see a proposal (SAF or GOA may still have links to it) on exactly how the checks could be done in a manner which prevented the data from being captured at their end, even if they wanted to, using some sort of encoding public-key cryptography or some such, and thought that would be a good idea, but of course good ideas seldom make it in politics.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:23 pm

Swampman wrote:Selling everything I own to hire a lawyer, isn't high on my list of things to do. I believe in being a law abiding citizen. I believe the Bible teaches that. ...

So, you believe that the Founders of this nation were rank Treasonous, unChristian Criminals...?

And if I remember correctly Jesus Himself sort of broke a whole bunch of man made "laws" when he drove the "den of theives" from the Temple.

A man wo abides by unethical 'laws' is nothing more than a slave, unwilling to stand up to an evil "master".

Swampman wrote:...Double standards aren't for those of us who try to be ethical in our conduct...

Ethical and "legal" are, more often than not, mutually exclusive.

Ask anyone who has been "legally" exterminated.

Ooops. Sorry, you can't. They're dead.

I'll be "illegal" if that is what is required to remain Alive.

ccw9mm · Post by **ccw9mm** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:28 pm

I carry everywhere it is legal to do so. Why? All the obvious reasons.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:03 pm

If you are going to be a criminal, then why bother to get a permit? Just do like the other filth, gangstas, and thugs do and carry illegally. Why not steal a gun too? That would be alright wouldn't it? I mean if the law doesn't apply to old white guys, then you can do anything you want right?

Just because you think the law shouldn't apply, to you doesn't mean you're not a criminal.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:10 pm

Swampman wrote:...Just because you think the law shouldn't apply, to you doesn't mean you're not a criminal.

Clue: Every person in the United States can be successfully prosecuted for violating some "law" somone either "forgot" to repeal or created forthe sole purpose of having somthing to convict people on.

How many tens of thousands of "laws" are out there for which "ignorance is no excuse"?

But hey. Go ahead and ignore the point being made that EVERY SINGLE SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE WAS CONSIDERED A "CRIMINAL" and "TRAITOR" by their Government and the "law abiding citizens" like you.

Mojo · Post by **Mojo** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:40 pm

I've had a CCW for about 20 years but have only started carrying on a regular basis during the past year. Where I live it really hasn't been too much of an issue but within the past few years our local population has experienced somewhat of an explosion. With so many people moving in to my area from all over the U.S. (and Mexico) the crime rate has really jumped. I feel much better now going out in public knowing that I have a sidearm within reach. I still honor the law of the land and do not take it into places where they are not allowed.

clubkey · Post by **clubkey** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:46 pm

I have had a Full Carry NY State Pistol Permit since 1972 and applied for and received it within a couple of months after my return from Vietnam. You may ask why this is relevant to the original question and my answer because I have seen what happens to those who are unable or incapable of defending themselves or their families.

YES I do carry for two good reasons:

1) It's a God given right

2) I carried a firearm into combat for this country to defend someone else's freedom and By God I'll defend my own.

I will not however break the law because a man has to have character and be an example to his children. Speaking of which both of my sons are duly sworn NY State Police Officers and can carry anywhere in the US. So, 99.9% of the time I'm on the street I'm with one or both of them and don't really need to worry about whether I am armed or not.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:38 am

Swampman wrote:...Our founding fathers were nothing like you, thank God.

Then you have read very little history.

The Founders belived it doing what is RIGHT, regardless of personal consequences.

It is RIGHT to be personally responsible for your own survival regardless of what the "law" says.

It is just as WRONG to leave your kids orphaned because you insist on following an immoral law as it is to kill people just because the "law" saysit's OK.

Please explain to me how my carrying/possessing a firearm hurts anyone. Laws are there (should be there) to punish those who injure others - not look inside my pants for somting scary.

Who is injured when ANYONE carries a weapon - wheather it be a gunor baseball bat?

People are injured ONLY when that tool is used. It is the ILLIGITAMATE use of tool which causes criminal injury. (And injury to Criminals - which is why Politicians hate guns...)

And it is the politically calculated loss of that distinction in the minds of people like yourself that has led us to the Anti Gun world we have now.