JFK - Ballistic evidence - 1 shooter

[Mescalero]

I thought I provided that?

[Old Savage]

You clearly provided the proof against it. I was referring to for it. Arlen Specter dreaming it up doesn't qualify.

[BigSky56]

So the shooter used a 6.5 mm round and the pathologist autopsy report from 63 and courtroom testimony from the same pathologist in 1996 confirm a 6mm hole in the back of the head with a 63 xray showing 30-40 pieces of bullet fragments in the brain so a 6.5 fmc squeezes down to 6mm then blows up like a varmint round. danny

[w30wcf]

Well, this has been an interesting discussion about a very tragic event. If Cuba had consented to let Oswald into their country, perhaps JFK may have lived many more years but then again........

Not to belabor the subject any longer but here is a quick summary of the reasons that the two bullets from Oswald's rifle killed Kennedy and if there was another shooter(s)...they missed.

1st bullet impact - downward track from behind - started to tumble when it entered Connally as the entrance wound shows an elongation. A tight fitting collar kept the exit wound in Kennedy smaller than it would have been. Also, a tracheostomy was done on the exit wound which, if viewed after it was done , would give the indication of an entrance wound.

It has been indicated that the bullet hit much lower than the xray evidence shows - that Is true if one looks at the entrance wound in his coat which was actually bunched up on his back, likely as a result of waving, as a photo of Kennedy shows just prior to the assassination.

2nd bullet impact - hit from behind and removed a portion of JFK's brain along with several skull fragments. The portion of the skull missing was predominantly on the right hand side all the way down to the bridge of his nose. Upon impact the pressure inside of the skull increased tremendously with the weakest part of the skull giving way.

Why then was there brain matter on the trunk of the car?
page 213 of the book referenced -

"Frame 313 of the Zapruder movie shows the moment of impact of the second bullet to strike Kennedy this time in the back of the head. Fragments of his skull and a cloud of brain tissue can be seen driven forward and up, away from his head by the impact of the bullet.

The pieces of skull can be seen ten or twelve feet in the air in frame 313, but they flew thirty+ feet in the air during our experimental replications of the event and probably flew as high as this in Dallas.

The cloud of vaporized brain tissue that occurred in our experiments was so large that that it is not surprising that, in the actual event, the motorcycle police escort, just behind the car rode forward into this cloud of exploded brain tissue which wet their fronts as it descended.

Governor and Mrs. Connally both spoke in their testimony of being spattered with Kennedy’s brain tissue in fragments as large as a fingernail."

And finally, In 1978, Neutron activation analysis was used to test the bullet fragments left in Kennedy's brain. The atomic composition of those fragments matched the atomic composition of the bullets in the ammunition Oswald used.

Have a great week!
w30wcf

[Old Savage]

"It has been indicated that the bullet hit much lower than the xray evidence shows - that Is true if one looks at the entrance wound in his coat which was actually bunched up on his back, likely as a result of waving, as a photo of Kennedy shows just prior to the assassination."

Well, except it is the shirt that has the bullet hole evidence located 6" below the collar and even the autopsy drawing. And where would be xrays that show a hit in the neck in the back. There is a drawing I have seen like that but then now we have another bullet. Lots of little reasonings and excuses like these that all try to make that pesky single bullet work. I am not in anyway attributing any of this to you. I have read most all of it too. There exists the possibilty that both the back and the neck though the tie are entrance wounds - they did not probe them and admit it.

2nd bullet - that damage is not noted in Dallas where a number of the docs describe and show in pics you can see and a couple of films a 2 1/2" to 3" hole in the back right of the head.

You have a great week and holiday.

[Mescalero]

Do the math.
Why is that so hard to understand?

[Old Savage]

Warren Commission supporters usually merely ignore this sort of thing and here is an internal memo from the Warren Commission by Arlen Specter. Guess they didn't think it was all the important to look at even their photos which have been brought into question. Very credible outfit that WC.

MEMORANDUM

April 30, 1964

TO: Mr. J. Lee Rankin

FROM: Arlen Specter

SUBJECT: Autopsy Photographs and X-rays of President John F. Kennedy

In my opinion it is indispensable that we obtain the photographs and x-rays of President Kennedy's autopsy for the following reasons:
1. THE COMMISSION SHOULD DETERMINE WITH CERTAINTY WHETHER THE SHOTS CAME FROM THE REAR. Someone from the Commission should review the films to corroborate the autopsy surgeons' testimony that the holes on the President's back and head had the characteristics of points of entry. None of the doctors at Parkland Hospital in Dallas observed the hole in the President's back or the small hole in the lower portion of his head. With all the outstanding controversy about the direction of the shots, there must be independent viewings of the films to verify testimony which has come only from Government doctors.

2. THE COMMISSION SHOULD DETERMINE WITH CERTAINTY WHETHER THE SHOTS CAME FROM ABOVE. It is essential for the Commission to know precisely the location of the bullet wound on the President's back so that the angle may be calculated. The artist's drawing prepared at Bethesda (Commission Exhibit #385) shows a slight angle of declination. It is hard, if not impossible, to explain such a slight angle of decline unless the President was farther down Elm Street than we have heretofore believed. Before coming to any conclusion on this, the angles will have to be calculated at the scene; and for this, the exact point of entry should be known.

3. THE COMMISSION SHOULD DETERMINE WITH CERTAINTY THAT THERE ARE NO MAJOR VARIATIONS BETWEEN THE FILMS AND THE ARTIST'S DRAWINGS. Commission Exhibits Nos. 385, 386, and 388 were made from the recollections of the autopsy surgeons as told to the artist. Some day someone may compare the films with the artist's drawings and find a significant error which might substantially affect the essential testimony and the Commission's conclusions. In any event, the Commission should not rely on hazy recollections, especially in view of the statement in the autopsy report (Commission Exhibit #387) that:

"The complexity of those fractures and the fragments thus produced tax safisfactory verbal description and are better appreciated in the photographs and roentgenograms which are prepared."
When Inspector Kelly talked to Attorney General Kennedy, he most probably did not fully understand all the reasons for viewing the films. According to Inspector Kelly, the Attorney General did not categorically decline to make them available, but only wanted to be satisified that they were really necessary. I suggest that the Commission transmit to the Attorney General its reasons for wanting the films and the assurances that they will be viewed only by the absolute minimum number of people from the Commission for the sole purpose of corroborating (or correcting) the artist's drawings, with the film not to become a part of the Commission's records.

Raises the question - WHY would artists drawings ever be used????

[horsesoldier03]

The fact that Ruby a known mobb guy silenced Oswald is enough for me to believe there was a conspiracy. Then you have all the botched accounts of mishandling of evidence and obvious bogus ballistics.

The way the investigation was handled, you would have thought JFK was the first murder victim EVER! I have little doubt that all agencies put their best agents on the investigation. However, all you find in the evidence of the case is a bunch of blunders. Those people werent incompetent, someone tampered with the evidence or case notes.

[Old Savage]

Here is a new take - well sort of.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/true-cr ... assination

[AJMD429]

The way the investigation was handled, you would have thought JFK was the first murder victim EVER! I have little doubt that all agencies put their best agents on the investigation. However, all you find in the evidence of the case is a bunch of blunders. Those people werent incompetent, someone tampered with the evidence or case notes.

Kind of seems to be the NORM these days when it comes to any high-profile murders; just a few that come to mind during my lifetime:

• Vince Foster
  Ron Brown
  Jaime Zapata
  Seal Team Six
  The Sandy Hook students
  Mary Mahoney
  Scott Reynolds

Many others - http://americaswatchtower.com/2007/02/2 ... -clintons/. http://www.newsfollowup.com/bushfortune.htm, http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread859428/pg1...

[bdhold]

the entire subject is is about too much television. Every gunshot on television shows the victim flying backwards 6 feet.
It doesn't work that way. Small entry wound, big exit wound makes the head go toward the gunshot.
Old Savage, you continue to make this personal, and It will not be forgotten

Jack Ruby was a buffoon - he had no mob connections just as Oswald was too narcissistic to be an agent for any "side"
The damage the media has done to our nation and our culture over this topic is evident on this thread.

This is why American learned to hate itself. Why we have a second generation of school teachers teaching our children and grandchildren to hate America.
This is why fame shooters continue to shoot - they all want to be remembered and glorified just like Oswald.

This is why lies on television, in the media, and straight from the president's mouth became the norm instead of the exception. Everyone can be justified in anything they do. Everyone can be an armchair expert.
Yes, it is precisely Bigfoot and UFOs.

[Old Savage]

I am not sure why you see this as personal or that I see it as personal. I got going on this with the inception of the single bullet theory and on. The fact that I do not believe what you just stated about entry and exit has nothing to do with the fact that you stated it. I see from your other interests that you are quite the precision person. But there has been chicanery introduced here that has robbed the seeming evidence of the validity precision demands. Richard Feynman introduced that point to the discussion. I have argued against the WC lone gunman theory far before I came here. No one here should take this at all as personal. It isn't.

[piller]

A few things have always bothered me. Who owned the company that made the UH-1 Iroquois? Who owned the majority of the stock in Colt Firearms at the time? Why did George H.W. Bush fly in to Waco, TX and have a helicopter fly him to Dallas on that day? Did these things have anything at all to do with the assassination? I just have a hard time believing that Oswald acted alone.

[Mescalero]

pillar,
Textron........... I think?

[Blaine]

Non Sequiter? I don't think so: Sealed documents....Sandy Hook documents are sealed, too....Why seal documents unless you are hiding something? Freedom of Information Act is laughable when the Dot.Gov is the one manufacturing the information.

[Old Savage]

"the entire subject is is about too much television. Every gunshot on television shows the victim flying backwards 6 feet.
It doesn't work that way. Small entry wound, big exit wound makes the head go toward the gunshot.
Old Savage, you continue to make this personal, and It will not be forgotten

Jack Ruby was a buffoon - he had no mob connections just as Oswald was too narcissistic to be an agent for any "side"
The damage the media has done to our nation and our culture over this topic is evident on this thread.

This is why American learned to hate itself. Why we have a second generation of school teachers teaching our children and grandchildren to hate America.
This is why fame shooters continue to shoot - they all want to be remembered and glorified just like Oswald.

This is why lies on television, in the media, and straight from the president's mouth became the norm instead of the exception. Everyone can be justified in anything they do. Everyone can be an armchair expert.
Yes, it is precisely Bigfoot and UFOs."

Bulldog, that is all a much larger political point of view than the specifics of this discussion.

Feynman was trying to explain the forward backward movement of the head using only the bullet. What he apparently didn't know was that the driver Bill Greer hit the brakes as Secret Service agent Gerald Blaine tells in his book. Many witnesses report the Kennedy car slowing and stopping then taking off.

It may also be noted that the 1978 HSCA was not lock step with the only Oswald position. They concluded there was probably a conspiracy.

Again this is not personal. It is all about views and points. I think the Warren Commission was a political operation put together by LBJ for his political purposes and managed as much as he could to achieve the outcome/s he wanted politically.

[gak]

I think this is all good discussion. I have a tendency to think one shooter - Oswald. He was a loser in life, rejected by Russia and Cuba, failed marriage, dead end jobs unrelated to his driving passion, couldn't get anywhere on matters closest to his heart - the Marxist stuff. How much lower could he get to not have anyone truly take him seriously even on that stuff. He even had the characterless - "chinless" face of Frank Burns. In fact, not a bad comparison in some ways who couldnt get even the North Koreans to take him!! Oswald, a guy without any merit other than decent (stellar by some accounts) marksmanship scores, semi-auto or not. It's probably giving the guy too much credit to suggest he chose a cheap mail order Carcano to keep the purchase low on the radar screen. More likely, he was low on cash, but perhaps thr reality was a combination of the two. Anyway, how better for this misfit-miscreant to show the world--especially those such as Russians and Cubans he aspired to but was rejected by--he was "somebody."

Beyond the "lone gunman" aspect which again I lean toward--other non-shooter folks involved or not--I too have struggled with a lot of the pieces, like the quick whisking awy of the President's body seemingly outside of protocol, etc, and the Ruby part of the deal...how he could have been a "low profile"--back alley/low tech--way of destroying the ultimate "evidence" (potential sqwaker) Oswald. Instead, I think another person without much going for him/to show the world else who got caught up in the frenzy. Just as Kennedy had many enemies, he also had "friends" (fans) even of odd stripes you wouldn't normally think. Everything points to his act not being rational,...if he'd thought enough about it, he would have known such an obvious act in front of the world in plain sight of LEOs would ruin his life too...unless he too, but more spontaneously than Oswald, was at the end of his rope and wanted to "go out being 'somebody'." Also, as a few of these programs have pointed out, had Oswald been hired by the mob, as "professional" as they are, he would have been "met" by someone at a soecific post shooting stsge and silently whisked away never to be seen again (something to do with fishes)...not left up to chace wuth a Ruby type with a .38. Not for nothing they're called "organized," especially for something like this. My .02.

[tman]

As said earlier, release all documents on JFK, Area 51 and any UFO sightings. Let the public make up their own mind. Nobody here knows what happened. Ballistics is one tiny part of the overwhelming mountian of evidence that makes up the so called conspiracy theroies. With out ALL of the documents, it's an ongoing debate, perhaps the information, disinformation is what the conspirators are reling upon.

[Old Ironsights]

Re: Ruby...

As things get weirder & weirder on our spiral into Totalitarianism.... never discount the Value of the "dead man walking" Operative...

[handirifle]

Boy this is lively debate. A good one. I am in the "jury's still out" category. I will say this for those wondering about the brain matter going on the trunk. Set up a watermelon on the center of a long table and shoot it with a 30-30 rifle (similar ballistics). I guarantee there will be melon on both ends of the table.

When someone is shot at close range with a handgun, there is very often blood splatter marks on the shooter. When the hydraulic shock transmits through the body, the tissue resists deflection, and the reversing of the tissue will push blood and matter back in the opposite direction.

Go talk to any PD crime lab, they will back this up.

Watched the "Killing Kennedy" show the other night. I thought if LHO was actually shooting off hand, he was lucky to hit him once.

Sadly, the buffoons that were in charge were too stupid, (or scared) to allow a full forensic study.

As for why? I kinda think Jackie might of had him offed, cause of all his playing around. Just kidding, but the guy sure knew how to make enemies. The saddest part is we will never know how the country would be if he had never been shot.
His party has sure done a 180 since then.

[bdhold]

Oswald clearly set himself up a bench in the window using book boxes, so he shot supported rather than offhand (Ridley Scott's error).
http://www.exponent.com/oswald/
There were no buffoons in charge. The buffoons are still writing books and buying them. How many hundreds of law enforcement officers were involved in this investigation? Not one of them has stepped up to say this was wrong, this was covered up, so-and-so was a buffoon. The grassy knoll was covered with policemen and secret service men within seconds of the shooting. Did Magruder flinch when a gun went off right behind his head? - would you?
Oswald wanted to kill somebody to show he was a Marxist patriot. He stumbled onto the chance to kill Kennedy.

Our country will not accept that one crazy person was able to do this, and our nation has torn itself apart over it.

I can smoke pot because they killed Kennedy
I can hate my country and badmouth my government because they killed Kennedy
You can plug in anything here because they killed Kenedy.

[Old Savage]

The autopsy report should describe the body the same way it was when it was illegally taken from Dallas by the Secret Service - not so.

Like a circle in a spiral like a wheel with a wheel ... never ending or beginning ... on ever spinning reel ...

[bdhold]

and those who continue to spin it hurt our nation - Mrs. Kennedy had every right to her husband's corpse. I'm not going to post on this thread anymore.
I think you're a bigger dufus than you think I am. You have made yourself an expert over all those hundreds of law enforcement officers and government officials originally involved in the investigation.

[piller]

I am just wondering if the companies who stood to gain so much from an escalation of the "Police Action" in Vietnam were totally innocent. There was no reason for the head of the CIA to have been there that day, and I just think that there are things that don't make sense. It may be that there was, or was not a conspiracy. I just am not convinced that he acted totally alone. Governmental reports are not necessarily the most believable things to me. Whether or not the report is true and accurate, the fact remains that our Secret Service has done a much better job in the years since the Kennedy Assassination. Hinckley is the only one to have come close, and he failed.

[Old Savage]

Man, and we haven't even gotten into the Zapruder film being a forgery.

[handirifle]

Interesting for someone to post a solid opinion on something that clearly isn't resolved in the eyes of millions, and get upset when others disagree.
personally I haven't trusted government "official" statements for many years. Especially after working for the feds for almost 27 years and seeing more documents than I can remember that were half truths, get sent to the public. Primarily to avoid lawsuits in crash situations. Most of them deadly. So, no, I don't really believe just because some politicians got a "committee" together, that they released or even know, the "whole truth".

As for entry/exit wounds there ARE a number of cases of huge entry wounds and near caliber exit wounds. Especially on a varmint type bullet where the main release of energy is near instant, and fragments remaining exit.

And yes, there were buffoons, because ANY murder investigator will tell you you don't get the body till they are done with it. I lost a sister in law in 75. She died in her bed due to natural causes, but we couldn't even see the body till they were done. I feel for what his wife went through, but finding EVERY piece of evidience was priority one, not flying him home. Not to sound calous but anything else IS buffoonery and suspect.
Governments ALWAYS cover up what they don't want the public to see, so they will believe what they want them to believe.

[Old Savage]

Governments ALWAYS cover up what they don't want the public to see, so they will believe what they want them to believe.

Concisely stated.

On the varmint bullet point - and that is about the opposite in the bullet world of the 6.5 Carcano.

[rangerider7]

I have always looked at what was happening right before and what happened right afterwards. Bobby was getting under the mobs skin. LBJ might be dropped from the ticket in the next election and he hated the Kennedy's. LBJ was a man with strong connections in the underworld and wanted to be President bad. I went to college with relatives of his. Kennedy was getting ready to pull out of the war and the U.S. would lose its first war. The mob knew of JFKs women because they shared them and they had a hand in getting him elected. I had talked with Ruby at his club a few times and he bragged about his mob connections. Oswald's wife did not live far from me. After JFK was killed LBJ got JFKs programs passed which was opposite of his known views, I think to keep the suspicion off of him, and escalated the war. Ruby killed Oswald to shut him up. Ruby dies soon in jail. If the war had been won LBJ would have gone on to a second term with the South votes behind him. Also I always thought the shot that killed him came from the front after viewing a copy of the Zapruder film over and over in my coaching office. One of my student's dad worked for the paper in Dallas. There is more in my mind but I'm tired of typing. Just my two cents. RR7

[Old Savage]

Take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q91RZko5Gw, watch Jackie very carefully.

[Griff]

His party has sure done a 180 since then.

Look no further for the motive.

[cshold]

Trivia: Gilligan’s Island…

"The costly $175,000 pilot took six days to film in a remote section of
Kauai, Hawaii, and was finished on the day Kennedy was assassinated."

Ginger

[Griff]

Mary Ann

[Old Savage]

Ok, now we are getting somewhere in this investigation.

[cshold]

Ok, now we are getting somewhere in this investigation.

Agree...
This thread was WAY overdue

[Mescalero]

Oy Vey!

[Borregos]

Oy Vey!

You got that right

[Old Ironsights]

Trivia: Gilligan’s Island…

"The costly $175,000 pilot took six days to film in a remote section of
Kauai, Hawaii, and was finished on the day Kennedy was assassinated."

...

That's 'cause the Perfesser was busy up to that point... SOMEBODY had to do the 3-in-1 ballistic calculations for the Magic Bullet doncha know...

[Old Savage]

The Warren Commission report states in the beginning that Kennedy was hit in the back of the neck and the bullet exited in the front lower neck - we know now that the hole they called the entrance is 6" below the collar of the shirt - NOT in the neck. No wonder Specter told them someday people would see the pictures and know the drawings were a fraud. It also states shortly after that the revolver Oswald had was tied to the Tippit killing by cases at the scene of the shooting. ----- What - are we to believe that someone who just shot a cop would stay to eject the cases from the revolver - Credibility?????? It also makes other statements it cannot substantiate other than charges but states the supposition as supporting fact - was this a test to see if any one was reading it????

[Griff]

Moderator... can we keep this to 5 pages? One page per decade since the murder. I, for one, would get VERY tired of this being bounced back up to the top for the NEXT 50 YEARS!!!

[Old Savage]

So don't look at it - it is pretty clearly labeled.

[Todd1700]

The real truth is already known, but it's boring and doesn't sell.

Yep. Bigfoot and UFO's sell books. So does conspiracy theories. The truth doesn't sell. The truth is one loser nutcase took an old WW2 surplus rifle and shot the president. This is typically the case in events like this. Heck, John Hinckley was a completely insane loser nutcase and he put a bullet in Reagans chest in 1981. If he had purchased a more powerful caliber handgun than the 22 he used he may well have killed Reagan. It doesn't take a conspiracy to kill a president. Just one nut. All the Kennedy assassination proves is that by 1963 the United States was too dangerous a place for a sitting U.S president to ride through the center of a major metropolitan area in an open topped convertible. Too many nuts out there, even back then.

Sagan's Comment - "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof"

Exactly. Every investigation conducted by anyone other than a conspiracy nut trying to sell a book has just absolutely eviscerated all these kooky conspiracy theories. Many of the people who still believe some of this nonsense have actual mental problems like paranoid schizophrenia. I don't say that as an insult. It's actually sad to see. It's pointless to debate them however. I work in the medical field. You cannot convince a paranoid schizophrenic that their delusions aren't real. There is no "real" evidence that anyone shot Kennedy besides Oswald. Just delusional fiction spoon fed to mindsets that are hungry for it.

At this point the conspiracy nuts have every organization on earth involved. The Mafia, the CIA, The FBI, Vice President Johnson, the military, the Dallas police, the Boy Scouts of America, etc, etc. It's beyond ridiculous. When the truth about our government is that they couldn't even conduct and cover up a breaking and entering crime at the Watergate hotel.

[Old Savage]

One thing that has come out of this is actually reading a beginning bit of the Warren Commission report as represented by former Secret Service agent Gerald Blaine and seeing in light of evidence we have now seen how apparently dishonest they were in pushing the view they wanted to present to the extent of misrepresenting (lying) about what the evidence was (presenting false evidence) and reading Arlen Specter's letter warning of this and the consequences. He may actually come out in a better light in that regard. No wonder Russell did not want to sign it. You have to wonder what they actually knew and why one of the autopsy Drs. burned his notes.

Disclaimer - written at the risk of making Griff VERY tired.

[Griff]

Disclaimer - written at the risk of making Griff VERY tired.

Driving make me VERY tired. Even worse when I have no signal to refresh my screen and see what ELSE is on the forum... That last was well said. I just believe that until the rest of the documents are released, we'll not figure out what's truth and what's fiction. And even then I believe there'll be more questions raised than answered.

[Old Savage]

What is clear is that the Warren Commission does not represent the truth and that the open post it note on the wall - what the hell really happened is still there. If is was a lone shooter from a single location there should be no mystery and no loose ends there certainly be no official chicanery. None should be required ---- and that ain't the case. We have only scratched the surface here. BTW Senator Ralph Yarborough who was in the motorcade says at the first shot the Pres Limo slowed and stopped until the last shot, he was joined in that by 40+ witnesses, then took off.

Not sure how long this all goes on but I know when I was in Louisiana in 1971 with the Army one of our cohorts from Alabama was still fight the Civil War - I believe IIRC he termed us Ya'llnogoodGoddamnyankees - that was one word.

Standard Disclaimer - Hope you are awake and alert on the road if that is where you are - know what you mean, have a 3.4 mile commute myself. And, I come home for lunch. Whew!

Griff - much to be learned from seeing how you go about things. My daughter says I sometimes need work.


And this late breaking update in the world of crime - OJ loses his bid for a new trial so ---- the search for the real killer will have to wait.

[Old Ironsights]

All in all, I Don't Care.

I just wish it had been Teddy.

[Panzercat]

Can't say much about it since happened before my time, but I will offer an unbiased, if indifferent POV on the event.

First, it's the perfect conspiracy, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way. The aftermath was so poorely handled that you can't help but to question what happened. Seriously, a sketch? Especially once you start figuring in any entity with enough resource to execute and cover-up the event, everything becomes suspect. On the other hand, strange stuff happens to bullets at times. There's no absolutes. People live when they should have died because the bullet did something unexpected. And vice versa. So two of one half dozen of the other.

That said, I will offer this rather belated insight-- Count on the human factor. Operations of this magnitude require people, and people talk. For a president this loved and admired, it's amazing that there isn't one sole voice of reason through this. Okay, this was a government op. Did nobody like this man? Sure, we can go on about intimidation and elimination of witnesses, but those are ops in themselves; growing larger and larger with each successive coverup. And yet, still nothing. Especially if you broach the topic of a private entity or corporation doing the deed whose opsec is likely to be more pourus. I'm all for next level X-Files stuff, but it's literally the perfect no-witness crime from the execution side and that rarely happens.

I will give a slight nod to extra-US entities, such as another government, but even that list is going to be small. Any third world would likely crow about it and instantly claim resposibility for striking against the great satan or some stuff like that. Maybe. The bigger ones would probably keep it under tight lock and key, but I don't see even the US of that day standing idly by if it knew anything, let alone fabicate evidence to be complicit with the foreign power. Just the suggestion to the cicizens of the US would be a blank check to roll whomever was behind it with zero remorse.

Can't say that I buy a second shooter theory based on the above, but then I'm not so invested as to go through a film frame by frame, either.

[Mescalero]

Amazing,
Five pages and no one is paying attention!
Shows the difficulty of trying to have reasonable discussion about this.

[w30wcf]

- 3 fired shell casings next to Oswalds Carcano rifle
- Connally bullet matched to the Carcano
- Only way to Connally's back is through Kennedy (coat and shirt bunched up) bullet exited through the collar
- bullet fragments from Kennedy's head matched to ammunition from Carcano

Happy Thanksgiving!
w30wcf

[Todd1700]

- 3 fired shell casings next to Oswalds Carcano rifle
- Connally bullet matched to the Carcano
- Only way to Connally's back is through Kennedy (coat and shirt bunched up) bullet exited through the collar
- bullet fragments from Kennedy's head matched to ammunition from Carcano

Happy Thanksgiving!
w30wcf

Now w30wcf, you are just going to confuse them posting facts and actual evidence.

[Old Savage]

Hey, why not just ignore everything else. And, the bullet was not taken from Connally. And again, if this is so tight, why put phonied up artist's drawings in the Warren Commission report, which Specter warned them about.

And, Mescalero, they are just turning a blind eye to what your presented.

Come to think of it why not limit evidence to what LBJ's hand picked crew am
Nod sphere of influence could control.