A question about the Rossi 454 Casull

[joec]

I have a new 454 Casull M92 that I took down and cleaned. While doing this I planned to add a steel magazine follower but found a problem. Most of the 454 have a single pin that holds the end on to the inner tube (tube inside tube arrangement). Now the first picture is of the tube, second of the pin removed .

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The last two pictures are both sides of mine. How do I remove these as they look like one pin passes through (partially) the other. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated from one of the experts here.

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[Buck Elliott]

Slipshod design and shoddy workmanship..

[Snaketail]

Wow Buck - glad he didn't ask you for direction to the hospital.

Address the question, not the problem.

Michael

[Grizz]

I'd send it back and make them put the correctly made item on there, at their expense....

[AJMD429]

Mine doesn't look like that...

Even though I HATE to send anything back for 'warranty' work (Rock Island 45's excepted), I would be inclined to do so.

I have a crazy week coming up with a work-move and such, but if all else fails, PM me and I'll try to post pictures of how mine is setup.

[Buck Elliott]

Wow Buck - glad he didn't ask you for direction to the hospital.

Address the question, not the problem.

Michael

Michael..

At least I gave him an answer, even if you don't like it, which is more than you did..

My answer is my answer.. You'll have to come up with your own.

(BTW, I would give anyone precise directions to the hospital...)

[CowboyTutt]

Buck designed and built from scratch one of the earliest 454 Leverguns. I had the privilege of shooting this prototype rifle some years ago as it was sent to me from its current collector/owner who lives year around in AK. I did a quick search and can't find much about it, but I do have some pics somewhere. To the "newby" giving Buck a hard time, he knows more than you about how to make a 454 levergun. It ALMOST saw mass production, but the deal sadly fell through. But when it comes to the 454 in a levergun, the man knows his stuff, and that's for sure. -Tutt

[joec]

I'd send it back and make them put the correctly made item on there, at their expense....

I called about that as the gun went to Rossi when I took it out of the box as it wouldn't feed. It was returned in 7 days repaired at which point I shot 50 rounds through it and went to clean it. That is when I removed the tube with plans of a installing a stainless spring and metal magazine follower to discover the second pin.

I called Rossi CS to be told the gun was repaired and they didn't seem to want to work on it again. I asked for a manager and was told one would call me within 48 hours, that would of been by last Wednesday and now it is Saturday. I will try again on Monday but at this point I am considering taking it to a machine shop and having the pins drilled out and a new pin made to replace it. I generally modify these guns after I am sure they shoot dependably which this does and at that point the warranty is pretty much finished on them.

[piller]

Funny, but my Rossi came factory with a steel magazine follower.

[joec]

Funny, but my Rossi came factory with a steel magazine follower.

Mine came with the typical yellow plastic one and never seen a new in the box with a steel one.

[AJMD429]

I generally modify these guns after I am sure they shoot dependably which this does and at that point the warranty is pretty much finished on them.

That's kind of what happens with me; once I'm sure the basic firearm is ok, I don't get too worried about minor stuff, as I'm likely to be fixing it up and changing things anyway. Kind of like a house - if the structure is sound, I won't get all that upset about a cracked light-switch cover or whatever.

Still, there is a part of me that feels the manufacturer should KNOW about the defect, and further, that if they are the kind of place I like to do business with, that once they know about it, they will WANT to remedy it.

[Pete44ru]

I called about that as the gun went to Rossi when I took it out of the box as it wouldn't feed.
It was returned in 7 days repaired at which point I shot 50 rounds through it and went to clean it.
That is when I removed the tube with plans of a installing a stainless spring and metal magazine follower to discover the second pin.

I called Rossi CS to be told the gun was repaired and they didn't seem to want to work on it again.
I asked for a manager and was told one would call me within 48 hours, that would of been by last Wednesday and now it is Saturday.

I will try again on Monday but at this point I am considering taking it to a machine shop and having the pins drilled out and a new pin made to replace it.

Yep - Taurus/Rossi CS is a drag.

Since the old tube is already Swiss-cheesed, I would advise you trash it & either make a new/replacement, fitting the old tube parts to it, or just order a tube from the Parts Dept, ILO re-pinning the old tube.

The proper diameter, but overlong, magazine tube blanks are available from Numrich, Brownell's & others.


.

[joec]

I called about that as the gun went to Rossi when I took it out of the box as it wouldn't feed.
It was returned in 7 days repaired at which point I shot 50 rounds through it and went to clean it.
That is when I removed the tube with plans of a installing a stainless spring and metal magazine follower to discover the second pin.

I called Rossi CS to be told the gun was repaired and they didn't seem to want to work on it again.
I asked for a manager and was told one would call me within 48 hours, that would of been by last Wednesday and now it is Saturday.

I will try again on Monday but at this point I am considering taking it to a machine shop and having the pins drilled out and a new pin made to replace it.

Yep - Taurus/Rossi CS is a drag.

Since the old tube is already Swiss-cheesed, I would advise you trash it & either make a new/replacement, fitting the old tube parts to it, or just order a tube from the Parts Dept, ILO re-pinning the old tube.

The proper diameter, but overlong, magazine tube blanks are available from Numrich, Brownell's & others.


.

Well if need be I will have one made however ordering one is impossible at this time as it is one of the Rossi restricted parts list items. I tried that the first time I called. I would be happy to send it back and let them replace it however they don't seem to want to do that for some reason.

[Snaketail]

Buck:
I didn't answer because I'm not qualified to respond to his question. Obviously you aren't either. You should comment on things you know about, not things you think you know.

Don't bother complaining about my response - I've had enough of this web site and people like you...

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Funny, but my Rossi came factory with a steel magazine follower.

Mine came with the typical yellow plastic one and never seen a new in the box with a steel one.

Not all but there were a few about 2004-2005 that came with steel followers. Since then all I've seen have been the plastic ones.

As for the poor workmanship on this example, I'm not surprised. Rossi is all about cutting corners to save material and man-hours. It appears the person drilling the tube and cap for the pin had a problem and rather than reject these part and start over with new parts he just drilled a second hole.
I do feel this was a hand operation because I have yet to come across one of these where the cap can be re-installed 180 degrees off and the holes still line up. As for the bent pin, I am convince this was an intentional alteration of the pin. That's because I have seen it many times before with other pins on the rossi. Rossi does that when the hole ends up oversize for whatever reason. The purposely bent pin takes up the slack and stays put.

The bottom line is these short cuts in production are exactly why the Rossi cost less than the other 92 clones. But, the one thing they have going for them is over all they function better than the other higher priced 92's.

To me fine fit and finish on a gun that doesn't function right is like a custom paint job on a Yugo. Who cares?

[joec]

Funny, but my Rossi came factory with a steel magazine follower.

Mine came with the typical yellow plastic one and never seen a new in the box with a steel one.

Not all but there were a few about 2004-2005 that came with steel followers. Since then all I've seen have been the plastic ones.

As for the poor workmanship on this example, I'm not surprised. Rossi is all about cutting corners to save material and man-hours. It appears the person drilling the tube and cap for the pin had a problem and rather than reject these part and start over with new parts he just drilled a second hole.
I do feel this was a hand operation because I have yet to come across one of these where the cap can be re-installed 180 degrees off and the holes still line up. As for the bent pin, I am convince this was an intentional alteration of the pin. That's because I have seen it many times before with other pins on the rossi. Rossi does that when the hole ends up oversize for whatever reason. The purposely bent pin takes up the slack and stays put.

The bottom line is these short cuts in production are exactly why the Rossi cost less than the other 92 clones. But, the one thing they have going for them is over all they function better than the other higher priced 92's.

To me fine fit and finish on a gun that doesn't function right is like a custom paint job on a Yugo. Who cares?

So basically Nate, you feel there is only one pin in this tube? If so then I will attempt to drive it out if not I will have Rossi replace it if they will or have a new tube made with a new end cap. The picture of the bent pin is from Ranch Dog's 454 not mine as I haven't removed my pins yet, nor even tried once I saw this.

[AJMD429]

The bottom line is these short cuts in production are exactly why the Rossi cost less than the other 92 clones. But, the one thing they have going for them is over all they function better than the other higher priced 92's.

To me fine fit and finish on a gun that doesn't function right is like a custom paint job on a Yugo. Who cares?

I agree wholeheartedly. There are some guns I want to own "because they are splendid examples of fine craftsmanship", and some I want to own "because they shoot well"; of course the latter cost less, as they should, and when I buy them, I shoot them, and I don't cry when they get a safe-ding, or deer-blood on them, or whatever, nor do I hesitate when I think I can 'improve' them by drilling a hole for a different sight. I like BOTH types of guns, and suppose if I came across a perfect Winchester and imperfect Rossi in identical configuration at the same price, I'd get the Winchester, but might be tempted to sell it and buy two Rossi's, or a Rossi and a nice scope, or a Rossi and 1,000 rounds of ammo, or a Rossi and some reloading components.

Having said that, I do return some shoddy parts/guns for replacement, in part just so the company gets the quality-feedback and keeps a bit better on their toes. I don't expect Winchester perfection from Rossi, though. On the other hand, when I do buy an expensive 'classic', I expect a higher-level of craftsmanship, and sometimes am rewarded, and sometimes not. If not, I return them as well. Overall, though, I've seldom bought any firearm that turned out to be a disappointment; perhaps I'm just lucky, or just scale my expectations to match the price I pay.

In addition, with inflation devaluing the dollar five-fold or so during my gun-buying lifetime, I don't expect shelling out a "whopping $600.00" for a gun today to get me any better gun than I'd have gotten for $125.00 when I was younger. I think failure to appreciate that fact makes some of us have unrealistic expectations for the price-paid.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

So basically Nate, you feel there is only one pin in this tube? If so then I will attempt to drive it out if not I will have Rossi replace it if they will or have a new tube made with a new end cap. The picture of the bent pin is from Ranch Dog's 454 not mine as I haven't removed my pins yet, nor even tried once I saw this.

Correct, only one pin.

[Panzercat]

Slipshod design and shoddy workmanship..

ROSSI? NOOOooooooOOooo...

[1894c]

Slipshod design and shoddy workmanship..

i would send it back and have them make it right...but i do agree with Buck... :)

[joec]

Thanks guys and especially Nate. I got the pin out and metal mag follower and stainless spring in. I've also replaced the safety with Nate's plug and now have the wood off refinishing it. After I put another 50 or so rounds through it I will mount the Weaver scout scope on it as this rifle is for hunting not cowboy action. My cowboy action gun is the 45 Colt.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

While you have the wood off you should consider glass bedding. It helps disperse the recoil to prevent cracking off the stocks.

[joec]

While you have the wood off you should consider glass bedding. It helps disperse the recoil to prevent cracking off the stocks.

I'm guess you a layer of fiber glass where the front stock comes in contact with the gun? I've not had a problem with stocks cracking yet but would consider it on the 454 for sure.