M1 carbine and cartridge

[getitdone1]

Questions about the M1 Carbine and cartridge.


1. Which manufacturer of this gun is considered best? Winchester? I notice very high prices for those made by Winchester.

2. How reliable is this gun? I would guess, very reliable if made by one of the better manufacturers.

3. Can you get reliable cycling using heavier than the standard 110 gr bullet? Say, 125-130 gr HP?

4. The case has a slight taper so I suppose that rules-out a carbide die.

5. Can the gun be made (heavier springs, etc.) to shoot heavier bullets reliably?

6. I believe the military usually used 15 round magazine and 30 round if gun has select fire (full auto) feature. Is there a best brand of magazine?

7. I haven't looked at one for years. Isn't the action a lot like the Ruger Mini-14?

Don

[pwl44m]

I don't think one is any better than another. Winchester brings more because of Name and scarcity. Some of the manufacturers just made some of their parts. I wasn't aware of the tapered case, I thought it was just a straight wall case ?
Perry

[2ndovc]

Just a couple answers for you.

I think the Rock-Ola's are top dogs as far as pricing, followed by the Inland paratroopers, Winchesters, Saganaw Steering Gear, international postal meter, etc.

I've run a ton of 130 grain cast lead pointed bullets through an early Winchester with excellent accuracy. Those bullets have racked up a ton of varmints.


jb

[Mescalero]

It is a far better cartridge/gun combo that many people think.
I have two, one in .30 Carbine
One in 5.7mm Johnson.

[Sixgun]

Kalifornia.....mmmm...need anything else answered?

[MrMurphy]

Any of the WW2 manufacturers is fine if the gun didn't get messed with too much.

The 15 round mags are superior to the 30s for reliability as a general rule.

Universal guns aren't USGI and most parts won't swap, they're far cheaper, but they generally do run. The new Kahr/Auto Ordnance guns have gotten mixed reviews. Stick with an original if it's more than just a plinker.

Can't answer 3-5.

The action isn't 'like a Mini-14', the Mini-14 borrowed off the M1, M14 and M-1 carbine.

The action from what i've been led to believe is more or less a junior M-1 Garand, but I've never had both stripped down side by side to say for sure, just shot both quite a bit.

[AJMD429]

Don't forget they made leverguns (Marlin) for the cartridge, as well as revolvers (Ruger).

Wear plugs AND muffs if you ever shoot a Ruger 30 Carbine revolver, though...!!!

The case does have a slight taper, and the reloading is supposedly a bit harder and different than many rounds. Never loaded it myself, though. Probably like many military rounds, cartridge case thicknesses vary, as well.

Otherwise, what everyone else said...

[Mescalero]

It is a real sweetheart to load for.

[Mescalero]

110 gr. hollowpoints will make a believer of you.

[getitdone1]

110 gr. hollowpoints will make a believer of you.

Mescalero,

I'll bet that's right. Well, hey, they are moving considerably faster than a 357 mag handgun can push 110 grain bullet.

Could you give an example or two of how you come by your above statement?

Don

[Mescalero]

Well friend Keith and I both had carbines when we were kids.
We did a lot of jackrabbit shooting when we were young, we had a lot time to experiment,load,etc.
Watched that load kill New Mexico mule deer.
Keith even had a cast bullet load that would 5 out of 5 through a 1950 Chevy truck rim ( back when they were REAL steel ).
It is a lot more than people realize.

[MrMurphy]

The softpoint loads were used by the Stakeout Squad Jim Cirillo was in. Before AR's were common in police work, the M1 carbine terminated the careers of quite a few bad guys.

[AJMD429]

110 gr. hollowpoints will make a believer of you.

Also keep in mind that the lowly and 'obsolete' 32-20, when loaded in 'modern' firearms, is fairly close to the 30 Carbine ballistically...

[BenT]

My Lee dies are carbide and work fine. People report being sensitive to case length. I haven't had a problem , but I don't shoot it as much as I like because I don't like chasing brass . When I got mine a few years ago brass was hard to find.

[Sixgun]

When used in a single action revolver, case length is extremely important. It will either not chamber or will fall short of a firing pin strike. Most M-1 carbines I have played with have a few extra thou. of tolerences, but even then, case length should be kept close.

I shoot 115 gr 32-20 FP gas check cast bullets sized to .309 @ 1800 with about 99% efficiency...always with 15 rd. mags. 30 rounders are problematic in every M-1 I have had with the exception of an M-2 full auto my bud has.

I scoped my M-1 with a 2 x 7 Leupold by using one of those mounts that fit in the rear dovetail. It did not make it anymore accuracte, but allows me to see the cans or clay birds I'm busting with it.

Steel dies are always the way to go as carbide dies universally size the brass too much and a common end result is an ugly bullet bulge. The only time I use carbide is for 357, 9mm, or some 44 spl. I like a case that fits the chamber, not one that wobbles around in it.


If your buying mags, always buy new or slightly used military mags as the mag catch (on the mag.) wears on these easily and they develop slop to the point that the last 1 or 2 rounds will not feed. Its a hit or miss with commercial mags. I stay away from them.

If you buy junk, you will get junk along with all kinds of issues. Spend the money and buy a tight specimen, not some surplus junk that the Koreans shot 50,000 rds through and then our commercial importers just cleaned up/reparkerized/new wood and then dumped on unsuspecting Americans. It does not matter what manufacturer made them, they are all mil-spec. Reproductions from the 60's and seventies have always been well made and are excellent shooters in my experience, probably because they were never shot much.

Slightly heavier bullets will work but why bother as aggravation will be the end result as the gun was geometrically designed (springs/rifling lead/pressures) for 110 gr bullets.

I too hate chasing brass and thats the reason I only shoot 5-7 hundred a year out of it.

Anything else?----6

[Model 52B]

The slight taper does not matter - the cases work fine with a carbide die and no lube. I've never been bothered by bullet bulge and .30 carbine brass life is pretty good, so I don't sweat a little over working of the brass. The M1 Carbine does not have a whole lot of authority when chambering brass, so I prefer a round closer to original small base dimensions.

The Mini 14 has a gas system that is modeled very closely on that of the M1 Carbine - both use a short stroke piston and have a very similar operating rod configuration. The Mini 14 is similar to the M 14 for cosmetic purposes, but the operating principles are more remote than those of the M1 Carbine. The Garand connection stops at the basic operating rod and rotating bolt arrangement.

15 round and 30 round military mags are equally reliable - provided they are in excellent condition, and 30 round mags seem to be more prone to damage. Even with the M16 in the mid 1980's I preferred the older 20 round mags to the 30 round mags at the field level where condition was often less than perfect - the 20 round mags just held up better. The same applies to the M1 Carbine mags.

With civilian 30 round mags, reliability can be very poor.

Mil spec is mil spec and there are no differences in how carbines of different manufacture perform. Condition is what matters and if carbine is correctly assembled with mil spec parts that are still within tolerance it will run just fine. Most of the re-imported carbines have been rebuilt at least once, and that can cause some issues if the re-build was not done properly.

Two things drive carbine prices for collectors:

1) original and correct configuration for the period of production in WWII, and
2) rarity of production by manufacturer. Irwin Pederson for example only made about 4,000 M1 Carbines, so finding one of those in correct condition at a normal price would be pretty much winning the M1 Carbine Lottery. National postal meter, IBM, Rockola and Winchester command more money based on a combination of relative scarcity and name recognition.

Early configuration carbines are the rarest to find, in part as many of the "early" features were updated later at depot and arsenal levels if the carbine was ever reworked. And, most of the exported early and late WWII configuration carbines ended up with later features such as M2 bolts and stocks and late pattern barrel bands after WWII in the arsenal rebuild process many went through before being issued over seas as part of foreign military assistance packages.

----

I've loaded mine with cast 115 gr .32-20 bullets as well as .311 diameter 90 gr bullets intended for the .30 Luger. They both work fine and I really liked the 90 gr bullet in the carbine. You have to be aware of the potential for fouling the gas port with cast bullets however and you may need to clean it every 500 rounds or so.

I was a big fan of the old Hornady 100 gr half jacket bullets, and as always the 110 gr FMJs work fine. One oddity I noted however was that near max loads of 2400 under 110 gr FMJ bullets would on occasion detach a small ring of gilding metal from the base of the jacket and that would on rare occasions end up in the front of the chamber, preventing the next round form fully chambering, preventing it from going into battery. I stopped using 2400 with FMJs and stayed with H-110 and W-296.

[Mescalero]

I have 30 rd. mags but rarely use them,
I find them unweildly.
Have lots of 15 rd mags.
If you want to use 30 rd.mags, it would be prudent to put in an M2 mag catch.

[gak]

Mescalero, the quote function wouldnt work right for me but you speaketh truth in your posts.

+1 much bertter guns/cartridge than often given credit for. I have a pair of Inlands. One is an unmolested one-owner (us) "original war baby" with rare war-issue, ie not a refit, bayo lug my father brought back from Guam behind his B-29 seat. He found new in the crate in the junkyard looking for engine parts. End of war so they just said "keep it." Thr other is one of the imports (more accurately re-imports), lucked into a good one. The tell-tale Blue Sky armory stamp was so small and on the barrel underside versus usual larger/side, I mistook for scratches tl a magnifying glass said different. Boy, I thought I'd gotten a steal! Initially let down, it's turned out to br a winner. So, based on this one admittefly limited and probably anomalous case, I'd not reject any GI carbine just for being a Korean (or other "import") carbine. Check it out. You might just luck out and save a few bucks too.

To the question of reliability, yes very. The 30 rounders, as said, can be problematic. The key seems to be the magazine catch/assembly. My untouched Inland (7-44) had not been refit with the M2 part, and doesnt care for the 30s. The "import" (1943) had been refit, presumably post war or for thr Korean War. I have not tried a 30 in it yet but have been told with that M2 part it should be fine. I forget the brand, but the recent Korean 15 rd magazines have seemed to be quite good. Advertised as "finally a new (15 rd) magazine as good as the GI..." They might be right. The same claim is being made for the newer 30s, and I purchased a pair to try out but haven't yet. With baited breath...but if the new 15s are any indication. They do have the last round bolt open catch. (My new ones--15 and 30--were from Keep Shooting I think).

I cant personally speak to the Auto Ordinance/Kahr guns (I believe CoSteve has reportd good results so far) but the GIs are all great.

[Pete44ru]

.

About 30 years ago, an LGS had crates of separate M1 Carbine parts (everything) laid out, all over a back room floor - where anyone could assemble a complete rifle & take it home for $100.

Sooooo, a pal & I assembled & bought a few........... One for myself & two for him.

I didn't care about "correct" parts (in reference to the receiver make), as I just wanted a shooter; but my pal preferred to search out all the parts to make a Rock-Ola & an Inland Carbine (which he did).

It didn't make any difference when we shot them - they all fuctioned just fine, w/o a bobble.

I would advise staying away from a non-USGI copy/clone.


.

[getitdone1]

Thanks for so many great responses to my questions.

I have read that the cartridge did not score so good in terms of being potent in battle. "Light in the britches."

Think that is a popular view of our military.

HP, fragile bullets would help that problem a lot.

When you think of this rifle and cartridge it's real easy to compare them to the Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30. I may end-up going with the Mini-30. Having 30-30 power in a reliable semi-auto is pretty neat. I have a Mini-14 and had another. Still, using the carbide re-sizing die with the M1 cartridge is real appealing !

Don

[Mescalero]

Before the assault rifle ban I bought three blue sky re-imports all Inland.
1 for me
1 for my half brother
1 for my mother's husband
They all shoot just fine.

[piller]

As far as the combat record of the M1 carbine, well, it may not have done as much damage as the .30-06 out of the Garand due to bullet weight and velocity, but Audie Murphy used one to kill a German Sniper. A friend of my Dad, Lloyd Hobbs, claimed that in Korea the North Koreans and the Chinese were not stopped by the M1 carbine, but that they were by the Garand. That is about all I can back up as far as what I have heard or read on them.

[Sixgun]

As far as the combat record of the M1 carbine, well, it may not have done as much damage as the .30-06 out of the Garand due to bullet weight and velocity, but Audie Murphy used one to kill a German Sniper. A friend of my Dad, Lloyd Hobbs, claimed that in Korea the North Koreans and the Chinese were not stopped by the M1 carbine, but that they were by the Garand. That is about all I can back up as far as what I have heard or read on them.

Thats what I generally hear too, but.......one oldtime trucker that used to come in here was a Korean vet and he used to educate me on wartime experiences. Just a fascinating guy to listen to. I popped that question to him on the carbine vs. Garand and he told me flat out that he forgot how many Chinese/N.Koreans he shot with the carbine during the human wave charges and added, "I shot and they dropped" -----------6

[Bob Hatfield]

I bought my Inland 30 US carbine at Murphy's Mart back in the summer of 1985 for $149.95. They had 9 to pick from and I picked out what I thought was the best. Reagan had just relaxed the import laws and we were flooded with cheap guns. I had always wanted one since I was a kid in the 1960's watching Lt. Handly use his on the TV Germans. I have always found my Inland to be very accurate. The sights are deadnuts on at 100 yards. My best grouping has been with 110 soft points (don't remember what ones. Sierra I think) over 15.5 grains of H-110. Chronographs about 1950 fps or so. I remember shooting a 10 shot group well centered in the bullseye at 100 yards that measured 2-13/16ths inches with the issue sights of course. Killed a doe and a spike with it once. Both shot through the lungs and fell dead within 50 yards of where they were hit. Exit hole about penny size but the innards were scrambled.

I shot it the other day. Three shots at 50 about and inch group. Three at a hundred about a 3 inch group but well rounded. I'd say pretty good for 58 year old eyes with astigmatism.

Bought some Korean ammo once that was supposed to be non-corrosive. Should have cleaned it. gun rusted up terrible and pitted the barrel inside some. Scrubbed and JB bore pasted. Edges of the grooves are dark but the rifling is still strong and it didn't seem to hurt accuracy.

My carbine will be the last gun I let out of my hands before I die. Seems I've seen some gunwriters claim how a 32-20 in the hands of a cool shot is perfectly adequate for deer, but then chastise the carbine as worthless. Isn't it more powerful in standard form? Sure one cannot blast away at a deer from a bad angle and hope to scramble the vitals. But within 50 yards I can lay one right where I want to with complete certainty thanks to a lot of offhand flintlock competition.

I always suspected that in Korea the carbine bad rep was probably hitting the bad guys at long distances and penetration was a problem especially in cold weather. Seems from what I hear and read it did fine in Viet-Nam at jungle distances.


Bob

[MrMurphy]

Things to remember.

The .30 carbine was intended as a defensive weapon, easier to hit with than a .45 pistol. It wasn't intended to be an assault rifle, though it got used as such being light and handy with a lot of ammo. It was a 'stay away from me!" gun anyone could carry.

In Korea the N. Koreans and Chinese were generally wearing quilted uniforms. As a student of medieval and ancient history, quilted armor goes back a LONG ways. The Greeks wore it under their bronze armor, the Romans wore it under some of their armor. In medieval times the quilted gambeson or aketon went under chain mail and later under some versions of plate (depending on how much plate you had, not under a full harness) since it stopped the trauma from a hit, as well as arrows (scientific, testable fact). It performed the same function as Kevlar does now and spreads out the impact. It can also stop sword blows, though rarely stabs. In the late medieval period, most foot soldiers were only wearing quilted armor, since gunfire and crossbows could go through much of the plate available at their level. A 'cotton jack' (which is where the name jacket comes from, little-jack) was a large, somewhat bulky but not very heavy quilted coat of armor.

If quilted uniforms get wet and frozen....they're wearing pretty much...body armor. So while a .30-06 would sail right through, a .30 carbine might not. Also with the typical experiences of combat "I shot him!" does not equal "I HIT him" even today in a lot of cases. Audie Murphy was a hell of a shot and not a big guy, so presumably most of his rounds went right where he aimed them and they did fine.


I would avoid the Mini-30 personally, they do not have the correct rifling to use Russian or Chinese 7.62X39mm accurately and finding magazines above five rounds is a serious and expensive pain in the rear. If you like paying over a buck a shot for US-made 7.62 Soviet, go right ahead.....

[yooper2]

I had an old Universal carbine that was used for my "job" of hunting packs of feral dogs. All it ever saw were 110gr. cast hollowpoints loaded over H110. Never had much luck with the 30 round mags but with the 15 round GI mags it never jammed, not once. It was a dandy dog rifle but I'm not particularly fond of autoloaders in general so after I got the dogs under control I swapped it and the mold for a Rossi 92 and some 45 Colt brass.
Neat little cartridge and handy rifle, wouldn't mind another someday if funds were plentiful.


Eric

[Sixgun]

I agree with Mr. Murphy....Stay away from the mini-30 as the cost of a good AR is not much more and you get better ballistics and accuracy, along with about any accessory ever made.

If your dead set on the 30 cal.Russian round, I've had great luck with cheap SKS's, both Chinese and Russian. These guns I never logged ammo for but I know I have several thousand out of each of my SKS's and who knows how many more out of others I've had and sold.

What's nice about these guns is that you can shoot them until the cows come home, (I married the farmers daughter and they had milk cows and when the cows broke the fence, they kept on going) and if your lucky enough for the cows to come home, you can sell them for what you paid for them.

I'm headed down to Targetmaster right now and I was promised the next LMT in 308 to hit the shelves as I'm not willing to settle for the 901 Colt .-------6

[AJMD429]

When you think of this rifle and cartridge it's real easy to compare them to the Ruger Mini-14 and Mini-30. I may end-up going with the Mini-30. Having 30-30 power in a reliable semi-auto is pretty neat.

I would avoid the Mini-30 personally, they do not have the correct rifling to use Russian or Chinese 7.62X39mm accurately and finding magazines above five rounds is a serious and expensive pain in the rear.

...but for a lightweight 30 caliber 'Mini-14', I would LOVE to have one rebarreled to 300 BLK...

300 Blk cartridge.JPG

• http://300aacblackout.com/

[2ndovc]

Outside of combat in China and North Korea the lowly .30 carbine is not a bad choice for a
home defense arm in the hands of a light/small/etc. person.
Simple operation and ease of use can not be overlooked.

My wife could easily handle an AR but won't touch one because she "thinks" it's difficult to
remember how it works. Now, take an M1 Carbine that is green and walnut and
everything is fine. Pull back on this, flip this and bang, bang, bang.

Just that easy. ( just like an AR but " I don't like that one".)

It's all subjective.

jb

[Bullard4075]

"I have read that the cartridge did not score so good in terms of being potent in battle. "Light in the britches."

My father was in the south pacific in WW2. He and those close to him threw their carbines in the ocean (literally - so there was no chance of getting them back) as soon as they
had access to anything else. The Japs frequently would continue to come on even when hit with multiple chest hits. Like everything else in
life all weapons have good and bad points. Small size,low recoil and handyness was balanced by low (very low) knockdown power. Dad ended up with a 1928 (Navy stamped) Thompson 45.

[MrMurphy]

Funny, Reising SMG users were tossing their carbines in the rivers and ocean to get M1 carbines......

[Bullard4075]

Funny, Reising SMG users were tossing their carbines in the rivers and ocean to get M1 carbines......

Those Reising were most likely the Model 60 version (45ACP) which had a terrible reputation not for the cartridge but for jamming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Reising

"Quickly despised by front-line Marines, Lieutenant Colonel Merritt A. Edson, Commander, 1st Marine Raider Battalion, ordered that Reisings be flung into Guadalcanal's crocodile infested Lunga River, as his troops resorted to reliable bolt-action Springfield rifles.

[gak]

"I have read that the cartridge did not score so good in terms of being potent in battle. "Light in the britches."

My father was in the south pacific in WW2. He and those close to him threw their carbines in the ocean (literally - so there was no chance of getting them back) as soon as they
had access to anything else. The Japs frequently would continue to come on even when hit with multiple chest hits. Like everything else in
life all weapons have good and bad points. Small size,low recoil and handyness was balanced by low (very low) knockdown power. Dad ended up with a 1928 (Navy stamped) Thompson 45.

For every story like that, there's at least one opposite account. The .30 carbine out-ranged and way out-penetrated (as in Japanese helmets and armor vests) the .45/Thompson at intermediate distances, as devastating a close-in sweeper as the Thompson was. If a Johnson or Garand wasnt handy (there's an oxymoron), it was not unusual for a Thompson gunner to have a carbiner--or pick one up himself--pop off a sniper in a palm tree he couldnt effectively reach. The carbine was preferred by many for building, trench and cave clearing and jungle fighting to the larger, heavier and capacity limited Garand. And regarding multiple hits, am sure that was preferable to none from a ca-ching Garand that had just jettisoned its last 8 rounder. Effectiveness of any if these greatly depended on the circumstances. What one preferred on the open countryside or Normandy beaches for reach and power (the Garand), they wanted to turn into a Thompson or "even" carbine once they reached the trenches and pillboxes.

[Bullard4075]

"I have read that the cartridge did not score so good in terms of being potent in battle. "Light in the britches."

My father was in the south pacific in WW2. He and those close to him threw their carbines in the ocean (literally - so there was no chance of getting them back) as soon as they
had access to anything else. The Japs frequently would continue to come on even when hit with multiple chest hits. Like everything else in
life all weapons have good and bad points. Small size,low recoil and handyness was balanced by low (very low) knockdown power. Dad ended up with a 1928 (Navy stamped) Thompson 45.

For every story like that, there's at least one opposite account. The .30 carbine out-ranged and way out-penetrated (as in Japanese helmets and armor vests) the .45/Thompson at intermediate distances, as devastating a close-in sweeper as the Thompson was. If a Johnson or Garand wasnt handy (there's an oxymoron), it was not unusual for a Thompson gunner to have a carbiner--or pick one up himself--pop off a sniper in a palm tree he couldnt effectively reach. The carbine was preferred by many for building, trench and cave clearing and jungle fighting to the larger, heavier and capacity limited Garand. And regarding multiple hits, am sure that was preferable to none from a ca-ching Garand that had just jettisoned its last 8 rounder. Effectiveness of any if these greatly depended on the circumstances. What one preferred on the open countryside or Normandy beaches for reach and power (the Garand), they wanted to turn into a Thompson or "even" carbine once they reached the trenches and pillboxes.

Whichever weapon one had confidence in was probably the determining factor in what was used (outside of what one was issued).
I'm sure there were many Carbine fans, my dad was just not one of them. Close range fighting was what they were doing and there always
seemed to be an 1903 Springfield (which was much more prevalent than a Garand) around for the longer shots. Dad was a rifleman before the war
so maybe had a finer appreciation for what was needed for his situation. Open country fighting I think he would have opted for the 1903 over the "newfangled" Garand. Dad spoke highly of the BAR but was not as precise for the first shot because it fired from an open bolt IIRC. In one of the first "failures"
of the 30cal Carbine (at least in Dads eyes) a Jap with dust spurting off his chest from carbine hits was cut down close from a BAR. I think things like that tend (right or wrongly) to shape one's opinion.

[Sixgun]

I don't even want to think what it must have been like to be in close quarters battle with someone who was trying to do his best to kill you. Especially being young with your whole life ahead of you.

We all tend to change our tune as we age and one thing for sure, we know much better which would be the better weapon as when your young, well, your young and believe what others tell you what they think you should use.

With my knowledge now and if I somehow got transported back in time to the jungles of the South Pacific, I believe I would feel safest with a Thompson. I've shot a few military Thompsons and untold amounts of M1 Carbines and funny thing, I never experienced a hiccup with the Thompson but more than a few with the carbines. So much more authority with the 45.-----6

[getitdone1]

Since I'm the OP I'm going to leave the subject a bit. We've been talking a lot about killing power here and that got me to thinking about our military using HP bullets in the M1 Carbine. But wait! That's considered illegal and/or immoral by the Geneva Convention. (Am I correct on this? I think I am.)

So we can't use a deadlier bullet but we can blow women and children to smithereens with bombs and artillery or cut the guts out of the enemy with a bayonet. I'm talking about both sides.

With the body amour now being used by all sides expect the old FMJ would be the best.

Maybe soon it won't matter and robots will do the fighting.

Don

[hfcable]

ar 15 M4 carbine in 7.62 x 39 is another option, light well balanced and reliable. like you i do wish the little M1 carbine came in some other choice like this russian round for example.

[Mescalero]

Stop trying to make it what it is not.
Take it for what it is,use your head.
You can make it perform.

[AJMD429]

Since I'm the OP I'm going to leave the subject a bit. We've been talking a lot about killing power here and that got me to thinking about our military using HP bullets in the M1 Carbine. But wait! That's considered illegal and/or immoral by the Geneva Convention. (Am I correct on this? I think I am.) So we can't use a deadlier bullet but we can blow women and children to smithereens with bombs and artillery or cut the guts out of the enemy with a bayonet. I'm talking about both sides. With the body amour now being used by all sides expect the old FMJ would be the best. Maybe soon it won't matter and robots will do the fighting.

Makes sense; if I had to use a 30 Carbine for 2-legs, I'd want something other than a FMJ 'ball' round...

[hfcable]

Stop trying to make it what it is not.
Take it for what it is,use your head.
You can make it perform.

you are right. i finally picked one up; i already had a marlin 62 in 30 carbine. i do like the round, and if loaded with an expanding bullet, i have no doubt it will do the job. the weight and balance of the m1 carbine never fail to make me smile.....it just points itself and is superfast on target for me.

[handirifle]

Kalifornia.....mmmm...need anything else answered?

Oh, and I'm sure you were born with gun and cartridge knowledge? A simple answer like AJM749's would have helped him a lot more.

For the OP, if you stay within the design parameters of the gun it WILL perform reliably. Like the mini 14's (I have 2) when you start changing things it causes more work. One change to the gas system changes the balance of another operation, which changes another, you get the point.

Use it within it's limits and you'll be happy. Try to make it a 150yd deer rifle and you'll be disappointed.

[gak]

The advent of decent SP ammo for the carbine sure changed everything in making it a more viable home/self defense or close in small-to-medium game or dangerous pest round. As mentioned, unfortunately ball is all that was permitted, militarily speaking (but may have aided in making it a decent close to mid range penetrator when armor was part of the equation, so who knows the balance there). Given that, overall the little carbine did a pretty yeoman's job, underperforming for what some circumstances called for, but more than pulling its own weight in others. It's true some of the former shooters may not have survived because of its shortcomings, while others lived to tell the tale because of its advantages. Can't help but wonder if by downsizing the Garand by 1/3, and spitzering and lopping the rim off a .30-30, voila! Effectively an American semi-auto AK/7.62- a war-era "Mini 30," 15-20 rd box included, wouldnt have been just the thing for 1/2 the troops vs the sometimes too big Garand or too small carbine....but military industrial politics seemed to preclude much new thinking once the war drums started beating.

[Sixgun]

Mr. Handi Rifle,
If you notice, I have close to 7,000 posts and it a safe bet to say that a third of them have been of the nature of me imparting 40 years of knowledge to those in need. Many of the answers I have given have cost me plenty of loot (money) and time in order to get that knowledge. I gave that knowledge away for free.

The questions I have asked number in the single digits from those 7,000 posts.

The problem with today's society is that they have no idea of how to be resourceful and are either too lazy or cheap to find out information on their own. So.......they do what most liberals do......either take from those who do, trick them, or bluntly ask with no shame and hoping there are a few fish out there.

It's totally cool to ask questions and that's probably why these discussion boards were invented, you know, the "information superhighway" but there is also etiquette involved and I would never think to have a 7 question post that would take an hour or two for someone else to answer correctly. Sure, I could bypass the question and go on to something else, but if you notice, there are a few here who constantly "ask", never help others and that bugs the livin' pelosi out of me so I respond with a smart alec reply, hoping they will try to do things on their own and maybe learn something.

Gimme....gimme....all products of the Klinton Generation, usually hard core liberals who would perish if their electricity got turned off.

How many times do we see posts that ask,"where can I find a screw for a butt plate?"

I say get off your lazy azz and find it yourself. I will never answer a question that is easily found out just by Googling.

It's much easier to have others do your work for you, but I go by the Bible that says, "God helps those who help themselves"

Have a nice day and don't forget to pay your taxes as there are millions of leaches out there depending on your hard earned income .-------6

[Mescalero]

Over the years we have had several discussions about M1 carbine.
In each one I am certain I have mentioned my 5.7mm Johnson, yet no one has ever asked me about
it.

[JerryB]

Mescalero, I know it's been around since sometime in the1960's I have never run across one. I saw one listed as sold on GOA at 1295.00 they are pretty rare. How does it do on varmits up to coyotes?

[hfcable]

Over the years we have had several discussions about M1 carbine.
In each one I am certain I have mentioned my 5.7mm Johnson, yet no one has ever asked me about
it.

and I did notice that, and was definitely going to ask you about it, but it being the weekend i had been too busy. i have seen a couple of carbines chambered for it at auctions and was outbid on them [ and chambered for a couple other unusual cartridges ] and i have read a little about it; but i have never known anyone who had one.

tell me more, and is anyone still making conversions for them? i seem to recall ads in Shotgun news years ago, mentioning conversions.

[Mescalero]

$1295.oo Caramba!
It is a zippy little number.
I do not know about coyotes, as I do not shoot coyotes.
It is ---- on skunks.
It has like no recoil.
All the qualities you like about M1 carbine with a zippy little cartridge.
I also do not know if people are still making barrels.

[hfcable]

just looked and numrich does have barrels for them for 221.00$ what else is involved in the conversion? werent a few M1 carbines [ ? commercial ] set up for the 256 win mag? i have never seen one of those.

what bullet weight are you using?

[Mescalero]

Yes,
My friend has one and he loves it, hence my inability to get it away from him.
A barrel change is all that is required for the 5.7mm Johnson.

[Mescalero]

Yes,
My friend has one and he loves it, hence my inability to get it away from him.
A barrel change is all that is required for the 5.7mm Johnson.