What is the best way to move a dozen rifles

Snaketail · Post by **Snaketail** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:23 pm

We're moving and I will be taking my rifles. We're moving from Tucson to St. Louis. The moving companies are not particularly gun-friendly, so I'll be hauling them myself. I have a dozen long guns and a couple of handguns.

I have a pickup with a roll-top bed cover that locks, but is minimal security... out of sight is the best it can do. Two nights on the road.

I'm thinking of building a plywood box to hold the rifles - again "out of sight".

Does anyone have a better suggestion?

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:42 pm

Tucson to St. Louis will probably involve one border patrol check.
2 1/2 years ago I moved over two dozen rifles from Az. to N.M.
They did not look under the cover.
I hate to think what might have happened if they did.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:10 pm

That sounds like a pretty good way to go. Put it right behind the cab and bury it.

Snaketail · Post by **Snaketail** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:30 pm

Mescalero wrote:Tucson to St. Louis will probably involve one border patrol check.
2 1/2 years ago I moved over two dozen rifles from Az. to N.M.
They did not look under the cover.
I hate to think what might have happened if they did.

I drove to Carslbad last week - the only BP check was on the mountain road between El Paso and Carlsbad. Our drive will go from Tucson north to I-25 and across to Oklahoma City then on to St Louis - I doubt we'll cross a check points.
Here in South Arizona we cross the check point all the time - they have never looked under the roll-top, but I do speak English without an accent (OK, a Texas accent).

M

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:39 pm

Listen, you can bet your bottom dollar posting your intent of this on a public website for the world to see if the powers to be and I bet there are some checking gun websites doing anything but what is legal would mean at least to me your crazy!

I can tell you for sure it can be tracked back to your computer right now.

Screw cost you get caught these days with gun violations and being more than 2 means you would be an illegal arms dealer. 3 plus guns! And handguns going into a different Sate/City ????? Better check?

Your call bro!

What I can also tell you is with todays technology anyone on here stepping out on their deck raising their arm up, the powers to be can call you or email you right back immediately coming from the eyes in the sky and tell you how many fingers you have up. Unless you are in deep woods!
And also saying "is that your white Chevy pickup currently parked in your driveway right now" ?

Heck, you only have 14 posts on here maybe you be one ?

If not I simply will ask for your forgiveness.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 2:55 pm

from one sheet of plywood I built a trunk that is 4 feet by 23-3/4" by 17-1/2", internally framed with 2X2s, assembled with PU glue and deck screws. Including the top.

it will hold a lot of house hold items including guns.

the lid, being screwed down, requires a warrant to open unless you give consent to a search.

NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH.

The guns are legal property and you are entitled to transport them where you need to. you can find the federal code on most of the gun rights sites.

Grizz

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:21 pm

I know of no limits on how many guns a legal citizen can own.
I was thinking that if they do look, and want to run the serial #s that many could take a long time.
madman, if traveling with more than two is illeagal; I have been breaking the law for a long time.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:34 pm

Bring your handguns into NYS say from New Mexico, Jail time
Bring your handguns into Pa unless first satisfying all requirements of being a Pa Resident, Jail time

Having more than 2 handguns you are going to do 5-7 years!

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:40 pm

madman4570 wrote:Bring your handguns into NYS say from New Mexico, Jail time
Bring your handguns into Pa unless first satisfying all requirements of being a Pa Resident, Jail time

Having more than 2 handguns you are going to do 5-7 years!

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

This is why we live in Arizona, Texas, Wyoming, Idaho, etc, we don't have to put up with any garbage like that. We don't give a hoot how you do things back East, either.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:41 pm

madman4570 wrote:Bring your handguns into NYS say from New Mexico, Jail time
Bring your handguns into Pa unless first satisfying all requirements of being a Pa Resident, Jail time

Having more than 2 handguns you are going to do 5-7 years!

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

If I was you I'd move to an American state

If you are transporting your own guns to your new residence keep them unloaded and out of reach (out of the passenger compartment if possible) and no one should be able to claim you were any threat. Take pictures or video of where you have it if you're paranoid.
I travel all over the country on hunting trips. I've been stopped and have been in deer wrecks that resulted in contact with LEOs from other states and have never had a problem. And the fact I'm an LEO never comes up until after they have decided if I'm going to get a ticket or not.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:00 pm

I said traveling with, not carrying on my person.
I rarely " carry " even though I have a license.
I have NO intention of going anywhere east of the Canadian River.

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:34 pm

I am beginning to think maybe the MADMAN is really a NUTMAN. I reckon I better quit here now. BUT 'ol snaketail did say he was moving to Saint Louis not newyorkcity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:45 pm

What is this "Border Patrol" stuff... aren't you talking traveling WITHIN the U.S....?

And since when it is "illegal" to travel with your gun collection (who the heck else would you hand it over to, to haul around, anyway...???)...?

I would just think of it as a "problem" if I ran into a CROOKED cop, or just a "hassle" if I ran into an honest, but snotty, one. I guess I'm spoiled, living in the rural midwest...

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:59 pm

One of the downsides of living in the southwest ( only since 9-11 ) is a large increase of border patrol/homeland security/ ICE LEO presence.
Because of the politicly correct era.
I get asked if I am a us citizen.
I have blond hair and blue eyes.
Although I have seen mexican citizens who looked like me, it is rare.
End result: we have more contact with law enforcement.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:05 pm

madman4570 wrote:Bring your handguns into NYS say from New Mexico, Jail time
Bring your handguns into Pa unless first satisfying all requirements of being a Pa Resident, Jail time

Having more than 2 handguns you are going to do 5-7 years!

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

Wow,
I had no idea, I've been taking handguns to our cabin in PA for 40 years !
Even chatted with a few State Police and Wardens with a sixgun at my side and they
knew I lived in OH.

jb

Larkbill · Post by **Larkbill** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:05 pm

You could ship them to me for storage and exercising until you get here.

At least Missouri is plenty gun friendly. You can buy pistols on just the Instantcheck, and CCW is easy enough to qualify for. I definitely recommend St Charles county over St Louis county for all purposes. St Louis city, don't go there. Illinois doesn't bear discussing. Where will you be working?

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:26 pm

Mescalero wrote: Although I have seen mexican citizens who looked like me, it is rare.

I did some work around Cuauhtemoc, Chihuahua about 15 years ago, lots of Mennonites down there. Blond, blue eyed, sunburned, straw hats and overalls. Speak Spanish and some German dialect. Weird to stop and talk to a guy who looks like an Iowa farmer and have him rattle off a reply in fast Spanish

I drive through one of those BP check points every week. Only time I got more than a single question was when it was the middle of the night and I was driving a U-Haul

Have you been through the one west of Cruces recently? They finally got the truck station open, so the old one that the cars still go through is now pretty fast.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:34 pm

Yep,
And I have never had a problem at that one.
The one between Alamogordo and El Paso is another story

92&94 · Post by **92&94** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:16 pm

Mescalero wrote:Yep,
And I have never had a problem at that one.
The one between Alamogordo and El Paso is another story

Never been through that one, just LC, White Sands, and sometimes the one between Hatch and Deming. Once the one north of LC on 25, but I rarely drive that way, only when I'm planning to go through WSMR and find the highway closed for too long to wait. Never had a problem at any of those... glad I never need to head down to El Paso...

Snaketail · Post by **Snaketail** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:29 pm

OK guys, I'm traveling through Arizona - gun friendly, then New Mexico - also friendly, then Oklahoma- if they check you and you don't have a gun they will issue you a loaner, finally Missouri - also firearm friendly. Any further movement will be to the south - like Corpus Christi.

There are no restriction in most states as to the number of firearms you can own...NYC and California are different - you can can own ;em but you gotta do paperwork.

I'll stay in the south thank you and move back to Texas when I retire (sooner if Texas secedes).

By the way - that isn't a white pickup - its green.

Larksbill:
I'm an architectural photographer - doesn't matter where I live, as long as there is an airport. We're moving because my wife will be the retail manager at a museum in St. Louis. I'm looking forward to living where there are trees, grass, water, good restaurants, etc.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:17 pm

The one time I went through the one between Hatch and Deming, they had a BBQ going and declined to share.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:26 pm

Load them in your vehicle. Cover them up and drive.

It's nobody's business, especially law enforcement.

Show the nazis your ID if they ask for it.

Other than that: "Am I being detained?" and "No, you may NOT search my vehicle."

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 8:31 pm

madman4570 wrote:Bring your handguns into NYS say from New Mexico, Jail time
Bring your handguns into Pa unless first satisfying all requirements of being a Pa Resident, Jail time

Having more than 2 handguns you are going to do 5-7 years!

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

FYI....Transporting Firearms Through New York State is legal:

The best way to travel through NY or any state that has restriction is to carry a copy of Title 18-Part 1- Chapter 44 926A of the federal code with you. Some law enforcement may not know the law. DO keep the firearm in a locked box. Keep ammo in another locked box. No ammo in Magazines or speed loaders in the trunk or if no trunk as far back in the vehicle as possible in a locked box. By NY Law if you are traveling across the state and can legally possess the firearm where you started and where you are going you can transport it as above. But if you stop in NY and spend the night in a motel/hotel/camp ground etc you are in violation of NY law and can be arrested if found with a firearm. Stopping for gas and food would most likely be OK but this is not a given in NY.
United States Code Title 18 - Part I - Chapter 44 § 926A. Interstate Transportation of Firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

Lefty38-55 · Post by **Lefty38-55** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:13 pm

If "worried" about theft or anything like that, I'd remove all the bolts and send them by tracked/signature UPS or some other carrier to yourself, or to family.

Or just ship them all to me insured/COD and I'll keep them clean and well cared for you ... and you can come here to NE and use them anytime you want!

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:16 pm

Just fyi... I've traveled from Indiana to AZ. Twice-- northern and southern routes, and have never been stopped except by a toll booth. I'm thinking the entire roadside search angle is being a bit overblown here. As for transport, maybe one of those tow along U-hual things (locked, of course) if you have the hardware on your vehical?

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:30 pm

FWiedner wrote:Load them in your vehicle. Cover them up and drive.
It's nobody's business, especially law enforcement.d
Show the nazis your ID if they ask for it.
Other than that: "Am I being detained?" and "No, you may NOT search my vehicle."

Right. Don't look into it, just do it. Put them in the bed, up against the cab. Pile in all kinds of other stuff behind them. You will be ok. There's probably more to worry about someone stealing your whole truck then there is to someone rifling (no pun intended) through your belongings.----6

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:07 pm

2ndovc wrote:
madman4570 wrote:Bring your handguns into NYS say from New Mexico, Jail time
Bring your handguns into Pa unless first satisfying all requirements of being a Pa Resident, Jail time

Having more than 2 handguns you are going to do 5-7 years!

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
Wow,
I had no idea, I've been taking handguns to our cabin in PA for 40 years !
Even chatted with a few State Police and Wardens with a sixgun at my side and they
knew I lived in OH.

ANY LEO who would enforce such laws should be removed from duty, and either spend the rest of his life in prison, or be deported to the worst communist police-state imaginable.

Too bad so many of our LEO's have been subject to threats and intimidation in order to get them to betray their Oath of Office.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:11 pm

I gotta question the input about CCW issues by state. The issue is traveling, not carrying. Traveling with guns is generally recognized as lawful in America (CA, NY & some points east and north need to reapply for admission by upholding the Constitution vs their current Gestapo states), if the guns are unloaded, cased and outside the area that can be accessed by the driver. Preferrable locked in the trunk of a passenger car, the rear cargo area of a station wagon and under a locking cover of a p/u. I've traveled in every state in the lower 48 with firearms... and even where the restrictions are onerous, they are fairly easy to be complied with... except NYC.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:53 am

mod71alaska wrote:
madman4570 wrote:Bring your handguns into NYS say from New Mexico, Jail time
Bring your handguns into Pa unless first satisfying all requirements of being a Pa Resident, Jail time

Having more than 2 handguns you are going to do 5-7 years!

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/newmexico.pdf

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
FYI....Transporting Firearms Through New York State is legal:

The best way to travel through NY or any state that has restriction is to carry a copy of Title 18-Part 1- Chapter 44 926A of the federal code with you. Some law enforcement may not know the law. DO keep the firearm in a locked box. Keep ammo in another locked box. No ammo in Magazines or speed loaders in the trunk or if no trunk as far back in the vehicle as possible in a locked box. By NY Law if you are traveling across the state and can legally possess the firearm where you started and where you are going you can transport it as above. But if you stop in NY and spend the night in a motel/hotel/camp ground etc you are in violation of NY law and can be arrested if found with a firearm. Stopping for gas and food would most likely be OK but this is not a given in NY.
United States Code Title 18 - Part I - Chapter 44 § 926A. Interstate Transportation of Firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

Yep, Knew that. Same with a sanctioned shooting match even being held in NYS so long as the paper trail shows evidence of you being on roster etc. in that case you can stay at a Motel close by if this is say a weekend long event.

What they don't tell you, Let's say in live in Virginia,West Virgina,or even you live in Allentown,Pa and want to attend a shoot in Cleveland Ohio. Better not get caught in NYS whether you are on a roster or not same with moving.
You MUST choose a REASONABLE ROUTE IF AVAILABLE FIRST before entering NYS (speaking handguns here, and now I here ANY weapon that is deemed illegal by NYS no matter what will not be allowed into state (grandfathered in or not, being from other states)
Example: Johnny has his AR15 who lives in Virginia and wants to go see his grandma who lives in Columbus Ohio.--Not! That is not through NYS Any part of it.
Heard this stuff at Gun Club yesterday.Even a shipment of a firearm deemed as above FFL to FFL they have on that Safe Act Law somewhere?? that any and all other means have to be made to keep that weapon out of NYS, like tripling UPS charge by going around state and not through state.??? That one I am not sure of being 100% legit?

If you have a CCW in your state(providing Pa recognizes your state as being accepted as reciprocal state, you best have a NON-RESIDENT PA CCW on your person if gun is on your person.
Otherwise your going to jail. Used to be the people up here with valid NYS CCW permits thought well NYS is tougher on their requirements for issuing NYS CCW's so Pa will just accept theirs ?? Nope,them days are gone. I got that right from the horses mouth.

Don't believe me call Pa State Police in Mansfield, Pa and ask them yourself ??? or Bradford County Sheriff's office in Towanda,Pa
Better to play it safe and find out what's what.
JMHO

MrMurphy · Post by **MrMurphy** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:08 am

Normally state to state, no real issues if they're unloaded and cased. States have their own laws which, whether we agree with them or not, you have to obey.

AJDM, as much as you dislike their laws, state laws are state laws, and cops have to obey them just like anyone else, including enforcing legally passed laws. One reason I left CA....

Having them bubblewrapped against vibration inside a good-sized cardboard box or wood box would be my recommendation in the event of a crash. I've moved a large bunch of rifles about 40 miles the same way.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:24 am

I move stuff across state lines frequently. The best way is to check the state laws of the states you will travel thru, then comply with them. Of course, avoid states where things would be an issue.

If you get stopped, just tell the cop what you have, and where you are going. I've never had a problem, but if you do get an officer with issues, ask for his supervisor. Play it by the rules and you won't have any problems.

I am often driving a pickup. The bed has a locking cover. I put things in locked hard cases in the rear seat area. And if carrying ammo, keep it in the bed, also in locked containers. If you have proof of purchase have that as well.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:38 am

MrMurphy wrote:States have their own laws which, whether we agree with them or not, you have to obey. AJDM, as much as you dislike their laws, state laws are state laws, and cops have to obey them just like anyone else, including enforcing legally passed laws.

By that logic if a state passes a "legally passed law" saying black people should be shot on sight because they might be runaway slaves, we should just go along with it. You gotta draw a line somewhere, and I thought that line was supposed to be the Constitution. Not even just what SCOTUS says it says, but what it clearly does say.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:07 pm

Snaketail wrote: - also friendly, then Oklahoma- if they check you and you don't have a gun they will issue you a loaner,.

That's funny Snaketail! --- One thing about my state that makes me smile !

If it were me, I'd just keep them in soft cases in the cab, unloaded and zipped up (unless its a single cab truck, then that would take up a lot of room behind the seat)

Murphy's idea about bubble wrapping them and placing them in a cardboard box sounds good too , - might be easier putting them on the cart to take them into the hotel at night that way too if its just one or two boxes

New York and New Jersey are the only 2 states I've ever seriously fretted over this kind of stuff, but enough has been written about them already and you aren't going there anyway

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:45 pm

States have their own laws which, whether we agree with them or not, you have to obey

with ref to the 2A those laws are infringing and it is one of the places where the federales are supposed to weigh in on the side of law, order, and the citizens.

instead they are in collusion with the liberty destroyers

7.62 Precision · Post by **7.62 Precision** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:11 pm

OK, so the point is, make sure they are packed in your plywood box in a way to protect against damage and theft, and don't go through NY on your way (you would have to be a mad man to live there).

Keep in mind that even if the rifles are padded, they can be damaged by weight if not arranged well.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:38 pm

7.62 Precision wrote:Keep in mind that even if the rifles are padded, they can be damaged by weight if not arranged well.

Yep; just the vibration from being in a moving vehicle can wear finishes pretty severely even through padding.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:35 am

Madman, look at code 926a for pa, anyone, who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport them through the state if they meet that section. NY, whole different can of beans

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:02 am

rjohns94 wrote:Madman, look at code 926a for pa, anyone, who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport them through the state if they meet that section. NY, whole different can of beans

Mike,
This stuff is extremely confusing. I know the transport of long guns deal. But what I was told is someone from another state maybe not on destination of going through to a proven other state but caught while in that state say off the Interstate.

One thing that really bugs me is if you go on Pa State Police Website there is a section showing (a person having a valid CCW from another State appears it being acceptable to be in Pa being in CCW mode.?
Very different deal in what I was told just last year from LEO themselves?

http://www.usacarry.com/pennsylvania_co ... _carry_map

Then try map clicking where shows Permits honored by Pennsylvania

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:40 am

AJMD429 wrote:
7.62 Precision wrote:Keep in mind that even if the rifles are padded, they can be damaged by weight if not arranged well.
Yep; just the vibration from being in a moving vehicle can wear finishes pretty severely even through padding.

in the bottom of my shipping trunk the rifles are cradled in a crude rack made with half-inch dowels and cushioned with blankets. there is a deck of planks over this space and the rest of the tools and boxes are on top.

this survived a bobcat load and unload onto and off of a trailer, a lift by a power scow using burton gear on the booms, run across ocean miles and off-loaded to a fish dock and trucked to a barge line that loaded it into a van and then unloaded the van at the destination port, at which place a forklift slid it into my truck several weeks later.

there is no disernable shipping rash on any of the items in the trunk. YMMV, but I don't know why it would...

Grizz

Snaketail · Post by **Snaketail** » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:20 pm

About 15 years ago, before the ATF got so "involved" in gun shows, my buddy and I used to travel Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana and sell at the shows. We bought "collections", cleaned them up and sold them at the bigger gun shows. We built some boxes that we used for transport and display. The frame was 1x6 pine, and the sides were 1/4" plywood. Inside the box we used rippled wood strips that are cut to match corrugated metal roofing - they stuff barns are made of...you get it at Home Depot. Each long gun was in a gun sock and wrapped in bubble wrap. The handguns were in pistol rugs.
We'd hit a show about every other weekend and pretty quickly the 1x6 pine would wear out from screwing and unscrewing the deck screws. But a 2x6 was heavy and ugly on the table. It was simpler to make new frames than to re-engineer the box. Worked well for almost two years - I don't recall ever having a damaged long gun from transport - but there were a couple of shotguns I wish I had back.

I'll build a box, take in the hotel room every evening, drive friendly and stay between New York and California.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:32 am

I'd remove the stocks and bolts and ship them.

Larkbill · Post by **Larkbill** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:28 pm

"I'm an architectural photographer - doesn't matter where I live, as long as there is an airport. We're moving because my wife will be the retail manager at a museum in St. Louis. I'm looking forward to living where there are trees, grass, water, good restaurants, etc."

Cool, which museum, I think I've been to most of them. Let me know if you have any questions about neighborhoods, like all metro areas there are good and bad. Also decent public ranges fairly close by. Mo. Conservation ranges in southwest St. Louis County, and St Charles county. Also many conservation areas have unattended ranges.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:16 pm

"What is the best way to move a dozen rifles"

Sell 'em to the Apaches.

They pay in gold.

hfcable · Post by **hfcable** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:14 pm

on any given day i MAY have 3 handguns on myself, personally, forget my truck !!

and 1 or 2 switchblades as well [ legal to carry in alaska ]