OT - CCW? Yes or no and why?

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:10 am

Aren't I just full of ..... questions?

If you live in a state that allows CCW (most of us do) and you don't have a CCW, may I be so bold to ask why??

If you travel through a state that does not recognize your CCW, Would you (theoretically of course) carry anyway?

Do you (theoretically of course) carry without a CCW in your state even if your state allows CCW?

I for one, have a CCW, and I would carry everywhere (theoretically).

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:18 am

CA has CCW the reason I dont have one is that they wont give me one or hardly anyone else for that matter.

I dont carry where the law dosnt allow. I cant in good conscience break the law's even if I dont agree with them. ( part of that whole law abiding citizen thing)

If my state would issue me a permit I would carry 24/7 but alass my guns sit at home and that wont change until I get stationed ells where.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:22 am

An illegal order is an illegal order... I don't obey illegal orders.

Yes I have one. Yes I carry EVERYWHERE there isn't a metal detector.

Rebel1972 · Post by **Rebel1972** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:23 am

Cost mostly .All I have is a 22 Heritage Rough Rider and a 44 caliber 1860 colt copy.I would have to buy a carry pistol if I had my ccw.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:29 am

Vermont doesn't have any CCW laws. I can carry if I want, but generally don't outside of the woods. We have about the lowest crime rate in the nation, and that's even lower for anyone who doesn't have scumbag relatives. Most of our violent crime is domestic and not random. I just don't feel a need.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:29 am

If Ca has a CCW, why won't they issue one to you? Is that a lawful law? Are people working to get this righted?

As far as law abiding, should the Gov't decide to take away guns from its citizens, should we as law abiding citizens, cave and turn them in? If we agree the 2nd amend says we can own them, are any laws against that then unconstitutional? isn't that pretty much what the supreme court is trying to decide?

When I was in Ca, (lived in Monterey and San Diego) I was able to get a CCW and carried an H&K P-13 in 9mm. I have owned a CCW in Maryland, Virginia, Florida (2 times), CA, PA, and SC. I didn't have one in Ct.

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:44 am

Howdy,

I live in Kaliphornie

, won't soon. The degree of difficulty to get a CCW is dependent on what county you live in, assuming your record reflects that your a good citizen. Some counties verbotten no matter what, other counties easy as pie. Don't know about other states but here it is issued by the Sheriffs Dept of the county involved. The Sherrif has a lot of lattitude.

I have one! It's my right as a law abiding citizen, I travel, I carry sums of cash, I don't feel like a victim waiting for .... , .

John

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:54 am

Aren't I just full of ..... questions? Very Happy
Yep, but you don't learn if you don't ask.

If you live in a state that allows CCW (most of us do) and you don't have a CCW, may I be so bold to ask why??
I live in IL. There is no way to legally carry a concealed weapon. IL does not issue CCW permits.

If you travel through a state that does not recognize your CCW, Would you (theoretically of course) carry anyway?
I've traveled across country 7.5 times in the last 10 years. Each time there has been a ~CENSORED~ within reach.

Do you (theoretically of course) carry without a CCW in your state even if your state allows CCW?
Of course not. For several reasons. In IL it is a felony to be caught carrying a concealed weapon. This law may be in violation to the U.S. Constitution, but if caught and convicted my rights to own guns are gone.
I'm not willing to risk that.
When I lived in AZ I usually carried open. It was legal and did not require a permit. I also occasionally carried concealed without the permit if I thought it prudent. That was only a misdemeanor at that time.

Joe

I for one, have a CCW, and I would carry everywhere (theoretically).

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:09 am

J Miller wrote:...This law may be in violation to the U.S. Constitution, but if caught and convicted my rights to own guns are gone.
I'm not willing to risk that....

I'm not willing to risk my life over an Unconstitutional Law.

If that means I end up being a felon in possession of a firearm (like 99% of the felons already out there) so be it.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:12 am

I am on my 3rd renewel on my CCW
always keep one in the vehicles, but I rarely carry on me.
I guess I have an expectation? that should some future draconian law be passed , I would somehow grandfather clause around that

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:14 am

I have a CHP (limited to handguns here in VA) and would never knowingly break the law.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:15 am

rjohns94 wrote:If Ca has a CCW, why won't they issue one to you? Is that a lawful law? Are people working to get this righted?

As far as law abiding, should the Gov't decide to take away guns from its citizens, should we as law abiding citizens, cave and turn them in? If we agree the 2nd amend says we can own them, are any laws against that then unconstitutional? isn't that pretty much what the supreme court is trying to decide?

When I was in Ca, (lived in Monterey and San Diego) I was able to get a CCW and carried an H&K P-13 in 9mm. I have owned a CCW in Maryland, Virginia, Florida (2 times), CA, PA, and SC. I didn't have one in Ct.

As you know it is dependant on the County Sheriff if you get one or not. I need to reapply when I applied a few years back I was politly declined because I couldnt show that I was in need of one. ( I know doesnt make sence to me either)

As to your second point I whole heartedly agree with you. I hope that SCOTUS rules in our favor and pray that God grants them the wisdom to do as such.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:17 am

Old Ironsights wrote:An illegal order is an illegal order... I don't obey illegal orders.

Yes I have one. Yes I carry EVERYWHERE there isn't a metal detector.

Ditto.

My familys protection comes first and foremost.

Johnny

wm · Post by wm » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:18 am

Yes...because my Faith requires me to stand against evil.

Simple as that.

Wm

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:31 am

I'm a Mavrick...I carry without and have for years....I use common sense about it and don't pack in banks,etc. In eastern Oregon(small cow town) we pack , but it ain't concealed...everybody gets to see it!

never had a problem. I do alot of Motorcycle touring and when I think I might end up wanting to cross the boarder, I leave it at home and pack my USMC K-Bar...
They sometimes search you at the boarder....and yes, they will lock you up! Happened to a friend of mine.

Have been considering getting one, but don't want the Govt. system knowing that I have one...just me I reckon...

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:40 am

Have been considering getting one, but don't want the Govt. system knowing that I have one...just me I reckon...

Jarhead,

I had the same thoughts. But then I thought about it some more and thought well if its a fight they want then they know where to find me.

Johnny

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:43 am

Jarhead,
I talked over that question with a well known gun writer some time back as to should I or shouldn't I. My name is already on so many lists I didn't want to be on another. His question to me was, how many do you think is too many as far as they're concerned. Like he told me, if you've EVER bought a gun, if you've EVER been in law enforcement or the military... you're hosed. Simple as that.

I like to say this when ever it comes up for those that don't know it. Florida will issue non resident CCW permits. All ya gotta do is apply and pay yer money.

I wonder why crime statistics in Vermont never come up in any gun control debate?

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:16 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Have been considering getting one, but don't want the Govt. system knowing that I have one...just me I reckon...
Jarhead,

I had the same thoughts. But then I thought about it some more and thought well if its a fight they want then they know where to find me.

Johnny

I hear ya Brother...Those "Turds" already know where I am..no doubt.

Lock and Load! GET SOME

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:08 pm

Rusty wrote:... if you've EVER bought a gun, if you've EVER been in law enforcement or the military... you're hosed. Simple as that...

Yep. "They" already know who I am, and what I'm capable of.

Hell, "they" trained me and have my full Psych Profile... as well as a permenant flag on my Meade File...

SO, yeah, what's "one more" box checked off in the Govt Database?

I'll carry 'till they tell me I can't, then I'll carry anyway.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:13 pm

My thoughts were that gun owners, if they live in a state that has CCW, should ALL apply for the permit. This would let the system know the voting strength of the poplulation that are gun owners. By not pursuing your CCW, we lessen the strength in numbers when the Govt comes looking to take away, whether its Dems or Reps. Not sure if I stated that properly or clearly. Perhaps others out there feel different. Kinda like the do you belong to the NRA question.

If we are gonna be sheep dogs, we alt to be sheep dogs in numbers.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:25 pm

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:25 pm

Hobie wrote:I have a CHP (limited to handguns here in VA) and would never knowingly break the law.

Hobie, I live in VA too. Interesting, because you are correct about the CHP vs. CCW, but I've never made the distinction in my mind. For example, it is illegal to carry a knife of 3" or more into a school. Does that mean I take my pocket knife out when I go inside to pick up my daughters? No. Also, in VA, one is not allow to carry an automatic or "butterfly" knife. Have I? Yes.

Is that what you are trying to get at by emphasizing "the" in your reply -- that you strictly follow that particular law, but maybe not other, specific instances? Or, are you saying that you follow the law regardless of whether or not you believe in the letter of it (vs. the spirit of it)?

FWIW, Mike, I have my CHP (and believe everyone should if you can, though it took years to come to that belief). I have carried (in the past) before I had my CHP. I would, hypothetically, carry in a state where my CHP is not recognized, although I would apply some constraints, i.e., weighing the risks of not carrying vs. discovery. Like JMiller, I don't want to lose my CHP for life if caught. Lastly, there are times where I don't carry, e.g., if I expect to go out and have a few drinks at a party. I survived 53 years, for the most part not carrying. In those party instances, I figure one more night of not carrying is no worse than those years where I didn't carry at all. I would hate to be stopped by a LEO with alcohol on my breath and a loaded weapon on me --- double jeopardy.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:27 pm

THE "law" is biparate. THE "law" of existence is "Fight until they kill you, then keep on fighting".

THE "law" of the US is the Constitution. All other "laws" are (should be) subordinate.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:37 pm

wm wrote:Yes...because my Faith requires me to stand against evil.

Simple as that.

Wm

THAT is the most eloquent answer to date!

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:05 pm

rjohns94 wrote:My thoughts were that gun owners, if they live in a state that has CCW, should ALL apply for the permit. This would let the system know the voting strength of the poplulation that are gun owners. By not pursuing your CCW, we lessen the strength in numbers when the Govt comes looking to take away, whether its Dems or Reps. Not sure if I stated that properly or clearly. Perhaps others out there feel different. Kinda like the do you belong to the NRA question.

If we are gonna be sheep dogs, we alt to be sheep dogs in numbers.

Good point, Mike

Since they already know who I am and where I am...

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:28 pm

1)If you live in a state that allows CCW (most of us do) and you don't have a CCW, may I be so bold to ask why?? - Because the US Constitution already provides me one, in it's 2nd Ammendment.

2)If you travel through a state that does not recognize your CCW, Would you (theoretically of course) carry anyway? - Yes.

3)Do you (theoretically of course) carry without a CCW in your state even if your state allows CCW? - Yes - See answer #1.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:36 pm

I'm an LEO, that lives in a shall issue state, Washington and I have a CPL. With my state commission I can carry almost anywhere without a CPL. But I chose to cover myself in case my Sheriff didn't want to for some reason and there was a shooting. Also, not to wag a finger in anyone's face, I can carry nationally.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:15 pm

"If you live in a state that allows CCW (most of us do) and you don't have a CCW, may I be so bold to ask why??"

I consider it a defacto firearms owner registration data base. I don't think I need to pay money for a God given right.

All the places I can't carry, makes the permit almost useless. I can't have my gun in the car at work so that means I can't carry it to work or back home. I can't have it in a resturant that also serves booze. That's all of them down here. I can't take it on Federal property which is 3/4s of the county I live in.

SMP · Post by **SMP** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:16 pm

I live in NY.Ny is may issue state.I have a CCW license,which is pretty hard to get in the Empire State.I'm fortunate that I live in a pro-gun countty and our licensing agent is top notch.That said, I carry everywhere that is permitted and don't carry where it is prohibited.The places that are prohibited I avoid going to unless absolutely necessary.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:43 pm

I have a CCW permit and pretty much carry a gun wherever I
want. I'll take my chances with being stopped in the car.

My experience with LEOs leads me to believe that they
have EXTREME latitude in what they choose to arrest somebody
for. If I'm in a situation where I REALLY need it, I'll worry
about the law later. I'm a white, mid-40s, polite, well-spoken, well-groomed, married man. My chances of having my car or person searched
anywhere but a Federal building, airport, or US Border are nil.
I also tend to go a bit out of my way to be more polite and more
tolerant when I'm carrying - especially behind the wheel.

That said, I tend to avoid those places with a firearm. I'll wear
one (concealed) into a country post office, but not one in a big city.

The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution, and the Maine
Consitution pretty much guarantee me the right to carry anything
anywhere I want to, but LEOs don't tend to see it that way when
they're out working.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:43 pm

rjohns94 wrote:My thoughts were that gun owners, if they live in a state that has CCW, should ALL apply for the permit. This would let the system know the voting strength of the poplulation that are gun owners. By not pursuing your CCW, we lessen the strength in numbers when the Govt comes looking to take away, whether its Dems or Reps. Not sure if I stated that properly or clearly. Perhaps others out there feel different. Kinda like the do you belong to the NRA question.

If we are gonna be sheep dogs, we alt to be sheep dogs in numbers.

WELL SAID!

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:52 pm

SMP wrote:I live in NY.Ny is may issue state.I have a CCW license,which is pretty hard to get in the Empire State.I'm fortunate that I live in a pro-gun countty and our licensing agent is top notch.That said, I carry everywhere that is permitted and don't carry where it is prohibited.The places that are prohibited I avoid going to unless absolutely necessary.

I live about 15 miles north of Albany I have a camp carbine as my house gun
and never considered a handgun till lately. Seems the "city thug" culture is
being exported through the small towns as of late. Maybe the Ka-bar between
the seats of my Jeeps wont cut it anymore.

The CCW in NY is a "shall carry" issue but each county can put restrictions such
as "hunting and target" but a lot of folks say it isn't legal to restrict it but I
wouldn't want to test that in court.

Maybe SMP could break it down better than I.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:59 pm

Swampman posted:
I consider it a defacto firearms owner registration data base. I don't think I need to pay money for a God given right.

That is the exact reason I never got a permit when I lived in AZ. Then what did I do? Moved to this hell hole where I had to submit applications and photos for a gun owner registration scheme called the FOID.
What a idiot I am.

Joe

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:29 pm

If some place doesn't allow CCW, I generally don't go there, period. Such places in my opinion are dangerous havens for the criminals and evidently don't have enough freedom-minded people to overturn whatever anti-CCW laws there are, so I assume they are nasty places. I feel sorry for anyone who has to live in those places!

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:34 pm

I don't normally consider church, the post office, work (well maybe work), or resturants "dangerous havens for the criminals."

neil mitchell · Post by **neil mitchell** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:20 pm

I have had a permit to carry since Texas first allowed it.In addition to the peace of mind a permit ,in Texas, allows me to buy a handgun anywhere without any red tape/waiting period. I have also heard from others and some LEO's that it helps if you are stopped by the law because they know you are a law abiding citizen who has undergone a background check by the FBI.
I don't go into a convience store, fast food restaurant (especially on the road) without a piece in my pocket.

Neil

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:28 pm

I am a police officer and carry every day everywhere in any setting. I fly with it and go to any state with it. I love this freedom.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:42 pm

505stevec wrote:I am a police officer and carry every day everywhere in any setting. I fly with it and go to any state with it. I love this freedom.

OOOOOO, ya big tease. Reminds me of a friend who is a corrections officer,
he always teases me about having it at all times. Although he really does need it, I
would hate to run into some of the guys he had to order around and have them
recognize me and have no means of defense.

ScottT · Post by **ScottT** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:10 pm

The only place I don't carry is on a plane or in the courthouse.

I don't go to places other than that where I cannot carry.

I don't break the law or encourage others to do so.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:33 pm

rjohns94 wrote:Aren't I just full of ..... questions?

If you live in a state that allows CCW (most of us do) and you don't have a CCW, may I be so bold to ask why??

If you travel through a state that does not recognize your CCW, Would you (theoretically of course) carry anyway?

Do you (theoretically of course) carry without a CCW in your state even if your state allows CCW?

I for one, have a CCW, and I would carry everywhere (theoretically).

we poor souls that live in kalifornia are between a rock and a hard place. yeah, we have a ccw system in place but getting one is like pulling teeth, you have to show good cause as they say. well, hardly anyone can show good enough cause to justify issuance. i have a license to carry open because of the nature of business im in. i could actualy get a ccw here but it would be classifed as "limited use" so i dont even bother. i dont believe tha kalifornia will ever be a shall issue state, too many commys here that run things.

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:41 pm

J Miller wrote:
Swampman posted:
I consider it a defacto firearms owner registration data base. I don't think I need to pay money for a God given right.
That is the exact reason I never got a permit when I lived in AZ. Then what did I do? Moved to this hell hole where I had to submit applications and photos for a gun owner registration scheme called the FOID.
What a idiot I am. hi joe, i bought a small piece of property in arizona last year, unfortunately i still live in kalifornia. where were you residing in arizona? anyway, i went ahead and got an arizona ccw. i notice alot of folks open carrying there also, especially in the northern part. my kind of place.

Joe

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:57 pm

JMO if you can get a permit then you should. If for no other reason than to be counted. The more of us there are the more secure the right it.

If you think your under the radar without one, think again about how many times you sign your name when you buy a gun. Unless your a criminal they know you have guns.

Anyway I have a permit & I carry almost everywhere. Court I wouldn't but the rest of the time I'm hot.

I'm not real crazy about the national CCW for police but I deal with it. Its not because I dislike cops, its because we both put our pants on one leg at a time & if its ok for them it should be ok for everyone. We're all just citizens.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:00 pm

Gary,

When I lived in AZ I was in Phoenix.

Joe

SMP · Post by **SMP** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:02 pm

Hi Jeeps.New York is funny when it comes to pistol permits.Any pistol permit issued in NY,except for a premises or New York City permit,is a concealed carry permit.there is no open carry in NY unless you are a LEO.
Here's where the funny or not so funny part comes in.Once you obtain a pistol permit in NY,the top judge in the county you live has the option to put restrictions on your carry permit like "hunting and target".The NY penal law says any pistol permit is a carry permit,it doesn't say anything about administrative restrictions place by judges.Technically you have a concealed carry permit for a handgun even if yoou have restrictions,but if a LEO stops you and feels that you are carrying outside your restrictions,they cannot charge you with a crime,but they can notify the issuing judge which could very likely result in the revocation of your permit.What it boils down to is you have a concealed carry permit in the eyes of the state,but the judge can tell you when it is appropriate for you to carry and when it is not.

Some counties are good about giving unrestricted permits and some are very bad.It's screwed up but I guess having restricted permit is better than having no permit,right?

gary rice · Post by **gary rice** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:05 pm

J Miller wrote:Gary,

When I lived in AZ I was in Phoenix.

Joe

joe, i havent been to phoenix yet, in fact, im planning on going over there tomorrow. the parcel i bought is near a little town called ashfork, ever heard of it? it's right off of highway 40. another guy i met out there is going to put up a gate for me. i can shoot there too by the way. a good reason to go.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:08 pm

gary rice wrote:
J Miller wrote:Gary,

When I lived in AZ I was in Phoenix.

Joe
joe, i havent been to phoenix yet, in fact, im planning on going over there tomorrow. the parcel i bought is near a little town called ashfork, ever heard of it? it's right off of highway 40. another guy i met out there is going to put up a gate for me. i can shoot there too by the way. a good reason to go.

Yep, I know about Ashfork. My Aunt has property west of there and a bit south of I-40.

Nice country. Kind of where I'd like to move to when I get back to AZ. I really don't want to move back to Phoenix.

Joe

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:17 pm

Swampman wrote:I don't normally consider church, the post office, work (well maybe work), or resturants "dangerous havens for the criminals."

In Indiana, churches and restaurants aren't bad places, because CCW is allowed there! And the only time I go to the post office is if we have baby chicks ordered since you have to pick them up at the post office

.

Anyway, ask the governor of Texas about whether or not restaurants are dangerous - her parents were killed before her eyes when she left her gun in the car per TX law - she ran on a pro-gun platform and changed the law.

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:53 pm

SMP wrote:Hi Jeeps.New York is funny when it comes to pistol permits.Any pistol permit issued in NY,except for a premises or New York City permit,is a concealed carry permit.there is no open carry in NY unless you are a LEO.
Here's where the funny or not so funny part comes in.Once you obtain a pistol permit in NY,the top judge in the county you live has the option to put restrictions on your carry permit like "hunting and target".The NY penal law says any pistol permit is a carry permit,it doesn't say anything about administrative restrictions place by judges.Technically you have a concealed carry permit for a handgun even if yoou have restrictions,but if a LEO stops you and feels that you are carrying outside your restrictions,they cannot charge you with a crime,but they can notify the issuing judge which could very likely result in the revocation of your permit.What it boils down to is you have a concealed carry permit in the eyes of the state,but the judge can tell you when it is appropriate for you to carry and when it is not. Some counties are good about giving unrestricted permits and some are very bad.It's screwed up but I guess having restricted permit is better than having no permit,right?

That is what I meant to say

Thank you for the clarification. Sometimes I think they make things complicated
so no matter which way you turn, they can bust your rocks.

I wonder if Thomas Jefferson ever imagined such freedom as we have.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:43 pm

[I also tend to go a bit out of my way to be more polite and more
tolerant when I'm carrying - especially behind the wheel.]

To quote Robert A. Heinlein : "An armed soiety is a polite society."

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:25 am

Jeeps,
What caliber is your camp carbine?

OT - CCW? Yes or no and why?

OT - CCW? Yes or no and why?

Re: OT - CCW? Yes or no and why?