.38-40 bullet recommendation for vintage Marlin 94

[BrentD]

I'm looking for a bullet recommendation for a turn of the century Marlin 94 in .38-40 which is slowly rolling its way towards me in a UPS truck somewhere West of the Mississippi. I know I should slug the barrel first, and I will before ordering, but what bullet do people generally find shoots best in these rifles?

I have heard that this is a good one: RCBS 40-180CM (https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainSe ... te=C12J059)

Any other recommendations? I will almost certainly end up shooting blackpowder in this eventually, so copious lube grooves seems like a good idea. Will this get it done?

Thanks,
Brent

[perry owens]

I use Big Lube 190 grain bullets in my 1890 vintage Winchester 1873.

The Big Lubes are on the right. They are designed for black powder and have huge lube grooves.
The bullets on the left are from an old Ideal mould. I found that accuracy fell off after about 3 shots.
If you want to try Big Lubes without spending on a mould you can buy the bullets from Whyte Leather Works
http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

Perry Owens

[cshold]

Nicely composed picture

[BrentD]

Perry,
thanks very much for that suggestion. It looks like a good one. I will have to try a box.

Brent

[perry owens]

One negative on the Big Lubes from Whyte - He used quite a hard lube and I was finding bits of lube stuck to the target at 25 yds - not good for accuracy. I now cast my own and use a 50/40/10% beeswax/Crisco/canola oil lube and don't get any fliers.

Perry Owens

[BrentD]

I'll relube them then. I make my own lube so that should be pretty simple to do. Thanks for the tip. I'd hate to DQ the bullet for bad accuracy that was really due to the lube and not the bullet itself.

BTW, if the bullet works well, do you know where to get a mould of this bullet? I'll eventually be casting my own once I find a good bullet.

Brent

[Griff]

IIRC, he will sell them un-lubed. But... if you're not shooting BP, the Ideal will be ok. I use Big Lube bullets with my .45Colt rifles, as they definitely carry enough lube to get all the way to end of a rifle barrel. I take the "easier" route, just buy SPG lube; none of that "cookin'" up concoctions, for me!

[BrentD]

I've had a bit better luck with my own lube, though I have a lot of SPG. My lube is easy to make and, since I own my own bees, cheap stuff. I use a 50:50 mix of beeswax and sheep tallow (from Dixie) with a shot or two of jojoba.

If someone wants some SPG, I have probably 5-6 tubes of it and big block that is several pounds. We could probably work something out.

[w30wcf]

Brent,
Another option would be the Accurate 40-180G which is like the original 2 lube grooved .38-40 bullet but with a crimp groove added.
For b.p.'s, Swiss or Olde E would be the powders of choice with this bullet for no "foul out". That has been my experience with it's .44-40 brother.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 180G-D.png

The other one would be the Accurate 40-185C which is patterned after the .44-40 43-215C that I have had such good results with in my .44-40. It will run for many many (50+) shots using standard Goex and similar powders maintaining very good accuracy from start to finish. It carries the ideal amount of lube to run trouble free in a 24" barrel ....not too much, not too little.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 185C-D.png

Have fun!
w30wcf

[Griff]

I've had a bit better luck with my own lube, though I have a lot of SPG. My lube is easy to make and, since I own my own bees, cheap stuff. I use a 50:50 mix of beeswax and sheep tallow (from Dixie) with a shot or two of jojoba.

If someone wants some SPG, I have probably 5-6 tubes of it and big block that is several pounds. We could probably work something out.

Oh yeah! PM on the way!

[w30wcf]

IIRC, he will sell them un-lubed. But... if you're not shooting BP, the Ideal will be ok. I use Big Lube bullets with my .45Colt rifles, as they definitely carry enough lube to get all the way to end of a rifle barrel. I take the "easier" route, just buy SPG lube; none of that "cookin'" up concoctions, for me!

Hi Griff,
If you would like to try some Accurate 45-260F bullets, send me a PM with your address.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 260F-D.png

I initially worked on the development of the 43-215C (.44-40) after some extensive testing to determine the ideal amount of lube needed to run in a 24" barrel for many rounds and with good long range accuracy (100+ yards). After achieving success with that bullet I had Accurate make a .45 Colt clone.

It is his 45-260F. Both the 45-260F and 43-215C have the same nose profile as the vintage .44-40 bullet (427098). I recently had a chance to test it and, thankfully, it performed up to my expectations. I fired 50 rounds using Goex, no foul out (holds 1.0 gr less lube than the "Big Lube" and produced very good accuracy.... all the way out to 300M. I have been using SPG in all my testing.

I'm a happy papa.......

w30wcf

[Don McDowell]

Brent, for the things you have in mind for that 38 wcf, you would do well to pay heed to w30wcf's advice. I'm quite sure you're after match winning accuracy at ranges beyond 25 yds, and those big lubes just won't cut it.

[Shasta]

Thanks to much assistance from w30wcf while I was developing a load for my original Winchester 1873 in .44-40, I too have become a fan of Accurate Molds. My slightly shortened version of the Accurate 43-215C mold drops .433" diameter bullets that I size to 432", which shoots very well indeed in my rifle. I suspect the .38-40 version John mentioned would be a good choice for black or smokeless powder.

Griff, take John up on his offer!!

SHASTA

[Griff]

Griff, take John up on his offer!!
SHASTA

Done!

[BrentD]

FWIW, Mike Venturino recommended the RCBS 40-180 CM. I swapped some emails with him and he has used this bullet in quite a bunch of different .38-40s. So it will be next up on my list after the Big Lube. The Accurate moulds look promising too.

Some of you might find this an interesting read: http://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/The-38-WCF-38-40/

[perry owens]

BTW, if the bullet works well, do you know where to get a mould of this bullet? I'll eventually be casting my own once I find a good bullet.

Brent

I get them direct from Dick Dastardly at http://www.biglube.com/ They are aluminium 6-gang types. As others have said, there are probably more accurate bullets around, it depends on what you want to do. I use my 1873 for CAS, so a bullet I can shoot all day without cleaning and mould 6 at a time is what I need most, with accuracy second.

Perry Owens

[Sixgun]

I shoot several thou. of those a year, and Colt Lightnings, Marlins, Winchesters, and SA Colts all get the Lyman 175 gr. bullet designed for the 40 S & W. It's a TC bevel base and crimped with a LFCD' sized .401. In messing with many of the old guns, I have found that groove diameters are very consistent in the 38-40, unlike the 44-40.

BP? Your Marlin will easily handle normal loads of smokeless. You can shoot more that way ---6

[BrentD]

6gun, I shoot black because I prefer to. And the Marlins are much better than the Winchesters for that purpose. I'll shoot some smokeless, but the Holy Black is my Grail. Yes, I'm a bit strange that way I suppose, but that's what I like. I haven't had the courage to shoot it in CLA competition yet however. That will change.

I've heard that the Marlins can have some different groove diameters for the .38, but that most are .40.

[Sixgun]

Brent,
I understand! I was possibly under the impression that others have told you that you have to stay with BP because it's an old gun.

I agree with ya on the "easier cleaning with the Marlin"

I just picked up a first year production 1894 Marlin that's a "short rifle". 20" barrel with the rifle hardware. This week that gun is going to have several hundred pushed down the barrel.

As I said earlier, the 44's have groove diameter all over the place but as I speak, I have about a dozen 38-40's and they all have .400 or .401 diameter barrels.

The above short rifle 44 mics out at .431 while a late production 1894 Marlin, produced in 1925 mics out at .425----Sixgun

[BrentD]

I'm just learning the lever gun game. Of course, I have had a 39a for a long time but in the centerfires, I got a 93 a couple years ago and I'm still learning how to tune it and use it. I think I have it pretty close to good to go, so now it is time to chase the pistol caliber with this .38-40. I've never loaded for any centerfire pistol cartridge in anything - so I am a bit more blind than usual.

BTW, I'm REALLY interested in a square bolt 1895 marlin (any caliber). I have a date with a moose in AK in 2015.

Brent

[Sixgun]

BTW, I'm REALLY interested in a square bolt 1895 marlin (any caliber). I have a date with a moose in AK in 2015. Brent

Good luck, unless you have a 100k a year salary.

In 40 years I have come across 4. Two were junk, one was mint, and the other I should have bought. It was a Turnbull restored one in 45-90. It was done beautiful with splendid case colors, takedown, with pistol grip. It could have been had for 3 g's, but that was about 10 years ago.--6

[BrentD]

I've "just missed" two that were shooters under $2k. But I know what you mean. I'm not a collector of mint guns. I'm a user of used guns. If I don't find one, that's okay, but I'll enjoy the hunt for the rifle and still get to hunt moose - I'll just have to use a vintage Ballard instead.

[Sixgun]

If someone wants some SPG, I have probably 5-6 tubes of it and big block that is several pounds. We could probably work something out.

Oh yeah! PM on the way!

My, my. Quite a spending spree this week for you! Lyman 310 tool and now, high dollar lubricant!

Anyway you could send me your autograph?

[cshold]

I use Big Lube 190 grain bullets in my 1890 vintage Winchester 1873.

The Big Lubes are on the right. They are designed for black powder and have huge lube grooves.
The bullets on the left are from an old Ideal mould. I found that accuracy fell off after about 3 shots.
If you want to try Big Lubes without spending on a mould you can buy the bullets from Whyte Leather Works
http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

Perry Owens

[QCI Winchesters]

.38WCF is one of my favourite calibres, I shoot an original '73 from 1890, and a '92 from 1907, along with a Colt New Service 7 1/2". I use the old Lyman bullet over 38gr. FFG, but found that the rifles needed a thin grease cookie under the bullet to provide additional lube. The revolver was fine without the additional lube. All of my ammo is loaded with an original Winchester tool. Clean-up has never been a problem, the actions just don't get dirty. The thin bottle neck case seals perfectly. I did have a Marlin 1894, but financial difficulties forced its sale. All shot about the same and were about as easy as each other to keep clean.