Hello and a question...

[jamesgpobog]

First, me. New to the forum, 62 years old, USNR 'Nam vet, now am honored to be on staff at Battleship Iowa in San Pedro, CA. Got my first gun at age 8, now at 25+ guns, including a Rossi 16" M92 that I love except for the length of pull. I reload .38's and .357 mag, but I am not a reloading 'geek', endlessly searching for a perfect '3-shots-one-hole' load. Belong to Front Sight, and have taken 2-day pistol (revolver), 2-day pistol (auto), 2-day rifle, 2-day shotgun.

So here's the question (after a little more bloviating). I understand that there is no such thing as 'magic', be it loads, bullets, or guns. I understand that what I am seeking is compromise, yet in that context I am seeking to get close to 'the best' (if that makes any sense).

We have 3 .357 guns, a S&W 19, a S&W 629, and the Rossi M92. There's also a sweet Taurus 85CH .38 belly gun, but it's not in this discussion. I like the idea of 2 guns one ammo for the possibly upcoming Zombie Apocalypse (code for civil breakdown). It's something I haven't put thought into in the past but am starting to now.

I'm now trying to sift twist rates, bullet weights, jacketed or cast (w/without gas checks), powders, and velocities. I'm somewhat lazy, and hope someone has hashed this all out before.

So, has anyone come up with a good compromise load for a rifle/revolver combo? So far my research seems to indicate I use cast w/o gas checks, a bullet weight around 140-150, a RNFP or TCFP, rifle velocity around 1200-1300 to prevent leading. I have no clue about powder.

Any feedback and/or recipes will be appreciated...

[Old Ironsights]

OOOOOhhhhh

What is the sound of One Hand clapping?

In MY guns (Rossi 92 & Ruger SP101), my best "do all" loads are 180gr "heavies" that run to 1800 from the rifle & 1200 from the pistol.

When I mess with that much, one or the other gun is not as accurate.

But they are really heavy loads... far too heavy for plinking.

I HAVE done some "cat sneeze" subsonic loads using plain base, pure lead 158gr SWCHPs that are GREAT out to 25yds or so out of either gun, but, again, are really niche loads that are useful only for specific purposes.

Your guns are going to behave significantly different from mine, so I really don't have a good answer.

[92&94]

Hello and welcome!

Can't help with the question.... but I can add more options to the mix

Don't forget to consider cast soft lead with a paper patch!

[jamesgpobog]

Hello and welcome!

Can't help with the question.... but I can add more options to the mix

Don't forget to consider cast soft lead with a paper patch!

Hadn't thought of patched bullets. How fast do they drive?

[jamesgpobog]

OOOOOhhhhh

What is the sound of One Hand clapping?

In MY guns (Rossi 92 & Ruger SP101), my best "do all" loads are 180gr "heavies" that run to 1800 from the rifle & 1200 from the pistol.

When I mess with that much, one or the other gun is not as accurate.

But they are really heavy loads... far too heavy for plinking.

I HAVE done some "cat sneeze" subsonic loads using plain base, pure lead 158gr SWCHPs that are GREAT out to 25yds or so out of either gun, but, again, are really niche loads that are useful only for specific purposes.

Your guns are going to behave significantly different from mine, so I really don't have a good answer.

OK, but I had read somewhere that the twist rate of the M92 (1:30) favoured lighter bullets. BTW, mine is an 'old' M92, saddle ring with puma medallion, no safety...

And I think 75 feet is way too close to get to zombies...

[jeepnik]

Welcome to the fire. Can't help with .357's, .45 colt would be different. But, as I can look down the street and just about see the stern of the Iowa, I gotta ask, anymore word on getting shore power so they can ventilate the below decks?

[92&94]

Hadn't thought of patched bullets. How fast do they drive?

About the same as jacketed. Its a lot of fuss for light loads where you could just use a hard cast bullet instead. The idea is to push a soft bullet fast without the leading problems.

I've been reading up on it, haven't tried yet. I'm just now getting the shop in order to the point where I can have a dedicated loading area, and I have a 26" barreled 1894 coming, and a couple surplus rolls of vellum from the days when every drafting room used it. I should know a lot more in 6-12 months

BTW, a friend of mine from work was just out there at the Iowa, early spring I think. He had a buddy who was doing some of the work so he went along on some vacation time to help out. I believe they were removing some of the decking that had been replaced with 2x lumber and wasn't holding up as well as the original teak.

[jamesgpobog]

Welcome to the fire. Can't help with .357's, .45 colt would be different. But, as I can look down the street and just about see the stern of the Iowa, I gotta ask, anymore word on getting shore power so they can ventilate the below decks?

Yeah, we're working on shore power, AQMD doesn't like the diesel generator. We're working on fresh water and sewer too. All are big projects, sewer is closest to being finished.

Ventilation isn't really too much an issue, we keep turning on more and more vents, fair number running now.

The 'below deck' issue isn't really ventilation, but ease of access. 2nd deck (one down from main) is fully open for crew, (not public) it's mostly bunks, with Galley aft and anchor windlass/chain locker forward.

The thing everyone wants to see, the machinery spaces, is 3rd deck and below, and that's a problem. Access is very limited and very difficult/dangerous. It is even off limits to crew without permission go go below. I was an engineer in the navy 40 years ago, and it is not easy for me to get around down there even though I am very comfortable there.

@ 92&94, Yeah, the deck work goes on. There's some teak, and some Doug Fir. The fir is complete garbage. There's a guy, Stan, who is a magician with wood and is doing many repairs now.

[Sixgun]

First, Thank you for your service to this great nation!

I take it when you said "629" that you meant "627"

7 grains of Unique with any grain cast bullet or jacketed up to 160 grains is a load that works in any .357.-----Sixgun.

[jamesgpobog]

First, Thank you for your service to this great nation!

I take it when you said "629" that you meant "627"

7 grains of Unique with any grain cast bullet or jacketed up to 160 grains is a load that works in any .357.-----Sixgun.

Yeah, 627. Fat fingers.

And with hard cast, should be no leading?

[Sixgun]

First, Thank you for your service to this great nation!

I take it when you said "629" that you meant "627"

7 grains of Unique with any grain cast bullet or jacketed up to 160 grains is a load that works in any .357.-----Sixgun.

Yeah, 627. Fat fingers.

And with hard cast, should be no leading?

No, not as long as the bullet is sized correctly, preferably .358.

It's really hard not to get a touch of leading here and there with revolvers, but a little will not hurt pressures or accuracy. Some guys get all hot and bothered when they look down the bore and see a few lead streaks. It's OK. It's when the rifling starts to disappear and the bore size goes from .357 down to 32 caliber that you will have issues.

After your done shooting cast, if that little bit of leading bothers you, you can fire a cylinder of jacketed rounds out of it and it will go away, otherwise just use a brass brush and some good solvent and that will take it out.----6

[jamesgpobog]

At those speeds, any idea what hard cast hollowpoints do? I also read (I think from Paco) about putting bullets in a pan of water and torching the tips to soften them...

[Old Savage]

Shoot a bunch of stuff and see what works best. Some of them really get on well with factory 158s which would be easy to duplicate. Don't ignore the common obvious.

[Griff]

and Welcome to THE Forum.

Don't overthink it. Are you loading .38 Specials? Or .357Magnums? Don't try to turn one into the other. If you're looking for plinking loads, standard .38Specals have been doing just fine for just over a 100 years. Duplicating the ballistics of just about any factory load will put you in the ballpark. There's a huge wealth of information out here in the 'net... but... some of it's flat useless. I could tell you my pet load that shoots like those perfect 1-hole groups with both rifle and pistol... you mentioned; (if I had one, I'd be shouting from the rooftops), but it might perform so poorly in your rifle that you'd be willing to crucify me.

I'm sad to say, there are no shortcuts, trust me, I've searched... But there are some good guidelines... the faster you want to go, the harder the bullet needs to be. The more penetration you want, the heavier the bullet needs to be. Heavier bullets come at the price of velocity and recoil. So, until you decide what recoil you can live with, you just about, can't proceed.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Before you waste a lot of time working up loads, make up some dummy rounds using different bullet /brass combos to see how well they work through the rifle. All leverguns are ammo length and bullet shape sensitive to some degree. You don't think about it much if you are dealing with a rifle cal. Most of those are bottleneck calibers. Bottlenecks always feed better than straightwall ammo, whether it is a rifle cal or a pistol cal. That's because you have a small diameter bullet going into a really big hole by comparison, the bottleneck chamber being much like a funnel.
The problems shows up the most with these straightwall pistol cals. and it's even more common with cals like 38/357m and 44spec/44mag because of the diverse selection of ammos to chose from.
These rifles are a lot like semi-auto pistols. There's just some ammo it's not going to work with.
find the combo the rifle like then load toward it.

[3leggedturtle]

Welcome aboard. I have a Saeco 180gr RNFP G'checked (also can be had in plain base) that shoots and feeds excellently. I use it mainly with 2400 but my next batch I am thinking of trying H110. My load chronoes 1550fps out of a 20" barrel. Todd/3leg

[Old Ironsights]

...

It's really hard not to get a touch of leading here and there with revolvers, but a little will not hurt pressures or accuracy. Some guys get all hot and bothered when they look down the bore and see a few lead streaks. It's OK. It's when the rifling starts to disappear and the bore size goes from .357 down to 32 caliber that you will have issues.

So THAT's my problem...

I was wondering why I keep having to use a .243 sizing die...

[Ysabel Kid]

Welcome aboard and thank you for your service!!!

[jamesgpobog]

Are you loading .38 Specials? Or .357 Magnums? Don't try to turn one into the other.

Both. .38's for plinking, .357 for Zombie Apocalypse. Most recently it's been /38's with TrailBoss and cast 158 RN or RNFP.