Winchester 760 Ball Powder - Sooty and dirty?

[stew71]

Has anyone used Win760 powder before? With the ongoing component shortages, I've been trying to find some handloads for my 6.5 Swede using something other than IMR 4350, and the cases are coming out very dirty...sooty almost. Like that crappy Russian Wolf ammo. Very odd. I've never used Winchester powders before but I'd think such stuff would burn cleaner than this.

Accuracy was so-so. It put out some decent groups from a 110 year old Mauser, using Sierra's 140gr Matchking over 40.5gr of W760, but not consistently. On a happier note, I picked up pretty good results with 40gr of IMR 4007 SSC. Printed consistent 2" groups using the same 140 SMK bullet.

Oh well...the search continues.

[flatnose]

Never had soot problem with win 760. I use it for full or near full loads in certain cartridges. I dont load for the 6.5 swede, but low loads tend not to be the best for accuracy, I switch to imr stick powders for those loads.

[J Miller]

stew71,

I have used a lot of Win 760 in my 303 Brits, 30-06s, and some in 308s and 30-30s. I have not found it to be particularly dirty or sooty.

This powder works best within a certain pressure range and if you load it too light it can become a bit sooty.
I use the loads listed in the old Winchester loading data pamphlets and the loads work great. No more dirty than any other powder.

Perhaps 760 is too slow burning for the rifle, cartridge, and or bullet you're using.

Joe

[Chuck 100 yd]

IIRC it`s a slow burning powder. You probably are not getting a good burn.
Ball powders are usually used with magnum primers at or near full pressure loads. They dont like to be used at reduced charges.

[earlmck]

Don't blame the powder, Stew: blame the powder loader. You're using too light a load, not generating enough pressure to seal the chamber against a little gas coming back and smoking up the case.

[wolfdog]

If you find some try IMR 4320. Works great in the Sweede with 140 SMKs.

[m.wun]

Maybe a heavier crimp will help.

[Bullard4075]

W760/AA2700/H414 (all the same powder) is perfectly clean burning at the proper pressure levels.

[harry]

W760/AA2700/H414 (all the same powder) is perfectly clean burning at the proper pressure levels.

Must be tring to get some one killed, AA2700 has a pressure increase, with equal weight, of about 12000 psi for a given load. Over 760,414

[Bullard4075]

W760/AA2700/H414 (all the same powder) is perfectly clean burning at the proper pressure levels.

Must be tring to get some one killed, AA2700 has a pressure increase, with equal weight, of about 12000 psi for a given load. Over 760,414

Outside of being extremely rude (glad to know you know my sinister motivation) your response is inaccurate. We don't talk to each other like that on this forum.

[TedH]

760 is the cat's meow in the 375 H&H. It outshines everything else I've ever tried in mine. I have never noticed it being dirty at all. I have tried it in several other rifle calibers, but never got as good of results as I did with other powders. So the big Holland is the only cartridge I keep 760 on hand for.

[stew71]

Thanks for the replies fellas. I'll go back and double check the recipe against my loading manuals. This wasn't something I scraped off the Internet, but was from one of the manuals put out by an established component manufacturer...although it escapes me which one right now.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I find a load in two or more manuals before starting with a load or component that is new to me. Just to be safe.

[J Miller]

stew71,

Some loading manuals loads are so light they are a waste of components. Others seem to be a bit on the high side, some are just right.

The thing is, you cannot exactly duplicate their tests. Even if you used the same brand of rifle, same brands of components, same brand of dies, and so on you cannot exactly duplicate them.
There are just too many variables.

Like Chuck says, search through several manuals for data and go from there.

I have been using the Winchester loads from their data manuals for over 30 years and haven't found a bad one yet. However some of the loads I've found in the newer manuals just don't cut the mustard.

One thing is for sure, if the cases are sooting up on the outside, the pressure is too low.

Joe

[Old Time Hunter]

I'm very partial to my H4895 loads for my Swede...not dirty at all.

[Griff]

Hmmm... on the "Reload Bench" burn rate chart, (fastest-slowest) 2700 is #127, 760 is #131 and H414's #133. And although it's listed as slower, AA shows a 3.5 grain higher max load than Hodgdon does for 760 or H414 (same min/max) for the 6.4x55 Swede; all 3 powders only showin a 4 grain range from min to max.

Harry, were you maybe thinkin' 8700?

[AJMD429]

Looks like regarding burn rate, some would say 2700 is 'slower' and some would say 'faster', but they are pretty close, evidently...

Faster to Slower:
84. Hodgdon H380
85. IMR IMR-4007SSC
86. VihtaVuori N540
87. Winchester 760
88. Hodgdon H414
89. VihtaVuori N150
90. Accurate Arms 2700
91. IMR IMR-4350

Faster to Slower:
126. N540 (Vihtavuori)
127. 2700 (Accurate)
128. Big Game (Ramshot)
129. Reloader 15 (Alliant)
130. H380 (Hodgdon)
131. 760 (Winchester)
132. Brig 4351 (Scot)
133. H414 (Hodgdon)
134. N150 (Vihtavuori)
135. N550 (Vihtavuori)
136. 4350 XMR (Accurate)

...it would NOT mean you could exchange them grain-for-grain, of course - "...always consult your reloading manual..."

[Bullard4075]

Normal safe,accepted reloading practices dictate starting low and working up. Using close cousins on the
burning rate chart (ballistic twins,same powders or not) poses no more variance than normally found in
different lots of the same powder.

[Griff]

Normal safe,accepted reloading practices dictate starting low and working up. Using close cousins on the
burning rate chart (ballistic twins,same powders or not) poses no more variance than normally found in
different lots of the same powder.

The only trouble with that philosophy is... that there ins't any real indication of variances between even powders right next to each other on the chart. And burn rate is but one variable between powders.

But, yes, starting low and working up is the best recommendation one can make or follow. Mainly because differences from rifle to rifle can vary even more than powders, lot to lot.

[Old Savage]

Of course start low and work up then you will be safe if done correctly. Very important in some guns. In the closest cartridge I have loaded a lot for which would be the 7-08, I could not treat H380 like it were 760 and 380 is faster than 760. A2700 is listed as faster than H380 according to the Hornady 8th Edition. The difference in 380 and 760 is greater than variance in any of the lots of a same powder I have worked with so I would have to go with the idea that I were working with a different powder and work up a new load going to 2700 from either 414 or 760. I don't usually do that with different lots of the same powder. The difference between 760/414 and 2700 seems to vary from one source to another. Have never used it so I find the comparison interesting as they are all in the range I have used quite a bit of.

[FatJackDurham]

+1 Magnum Primers or Federal At Least
+1 Tight Crimp

What primer are you using? CCI primersd are hard, and may not ignite well under a light strike. If that is not the issue, then try a Federal primer, which is a little hotter, or a Magnum primer.

I have heard references before (hearsay) that ball powders like magnum primers better.

As well, a good crimp to improve the initial combustion.

I havent used ball powder except what I reused from the winchester mauser rounds I had, but I had poor ignition from a cylindrical powder using CCI Large Rifle powders that cleared up under the same loading conditions when I switched to Federal Large Rifle.

[stew71]

Hey Jack...using Federal 210 primers. No crimp on these loads. In fact, I've never crimped any of my loads when using the Sierra Matchkings.