One powder for everything.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:43 am

So, we've been having this discussion about Lee Dippers and the Loaders and Hand Presses, which got me to thinking about putting together my portable reloading kit that I've been gathering together and ny thoughts go to powder. It seems I recall Paco at one time saying he had used 2400 for everything. I'm sure it's not the best, but if a fellow could buy one 8lb jug to put in a portable kit, it would make life easy.

So, say a fellow shoots 45-70, 300WM, .223, 38/357, 7.62x39, 9mm and 45acp, is there one powder that would work in all those? It doesn't have to be the best powder for any or all, just useable.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:50 am

Unique.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:57 am

Tycer wrote:Unique.

Can even use it for Shotgun

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:07 am

Unique ++1

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:18 am

Tycer wrote:Unique.

is there load data for all the guns Frank mentioned? in all the various bullet weights?

it seems that pressure tested load data is what's hard to get..

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:24 am

Black...

Ok, ok, just kidding. Frankly, I don't think you can get away with just one powder for that combo of cartridges. Uniques would work fine for the pistol cartridges and even do a passable job pushing 400 gr. bullets at BP velocities from the .45-70 but it is pretty much problematic with the .300 WM. In the .223 and 7.62x39 you're likely wanting to function a semi-auto and so you have to work within relatively narrow parameters.

To my way of thinking loading "on the run" is not the best way to go. Far better to have ammunition on hand. If you can pick up cases, throw measured charges and wack home primers and bullets you don't need to be on the run. Having a portable loading set up can be useful for load development at the range, but, really, how often does that happen?

Rod WMG · Post by **Rod WMG** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:14 pm

Such a policy is akin to using an elephant for all your transportation needs. It would probably work, but would be hard to use on the interstate and for carpooling.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:24 pm

Personally, I think Paco might be not too far off .... and maybe bang on. I've used 2400 for cartridges as small as the 44 Russian up to the 45-70. It seems to work well in all of them. Where it doesn't work so well is if you want to crank a high velocity out of the larger cases. Then you're limited by pressure.

canonsix · Post by **canonsix** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:08 pm

I am down to two, Unique, RL15, If I was pushed to one it would be 2400. just MY2c Doug

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:37 pm

I could get along with 2 powders, just thought I'd try for one first.

Hobie, I'm with you, and I dont foresee this as being a running fight sort of thing, more of a take what you can with you to a remote residence for long term vacation.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:30 am

One powder? I'd have to agree with Paco and my first choice
would be 2400. It's not the absolute best for everything, but it
is usable in almost anything.

I've often thought that I could get by with 3: 231 for pistol,
2400 for almost everything else, and H4895 for hi-powered
rifle.

If I could only get one powder, it'd have to be 2400.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:45 am

Varget in rifles and Unique in pistols. 3F blackpowder would work for all, but I'll let you clean them.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:25 am

I already use 2400 in 5 or 6 calibres & rec ently found data for the 35 Rem useing it. I'v seen loads for 30/30 & other older bottleneck rounds too.
I use it in 32/20 right up to 45/70 in the old calibres plus 357 & 44 mag.

Its funnt how times change things. I have an old square Herc 2400 can that calls it a rifle powder & the new plastic bottles call it a magnum pistol powder.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:42 am

On a similar line of thought, it might make sense to invest in sub-caliber adaptors for common cartridges. Especially .22 LR.

Even if you only had a few dozen rounds in a backpack for your big gun, if you could ALSO shoot lighter weight or more common or cheaper ammunition in it that would help.

A pilot I know carries a breakopen 12 gauge with a .45-70 chamber and barrel insert, and he has some rounds of both in his survival gear, but he ALSO has 500 rounds of .22 LR and an adaptor for that as well. I think he said the .22 one only had a 10" barrel but it fit in the longer 12 gauge fine, and was accurate enough to kill small game if you were reasonably close. I don't know how his firing pin adapted to rimfire, but I have a .22LR adaptor which is shaped like a .223 cartridge, and you simply insert a thing behind the .22 round which serves as a 'firing pin adaptor', and I only messed with it a couple times, but it worked ok.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:17 am

Fellow who used to shoot with us used H380 for 45-70 to 338. You could add 2400 and be pretty well covered. I like 4064 for a lot of cartridges.

Wayne Miller · Post by **Wayne Miller** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:47 pm

For what I shoot, and for what I reload, I could very easily get away with ffg Goex....Although fffg Goex works better in .45 Colt and 56-60 Spencer. I have to admit, however, that there are a few calibers that I just don't reload for, 7.62X39 and 9mm being two examples. Pretty much everything else I shoot can be covered by the above-mentioned Goex. (45-70, 45-60, 50-70, 56-50 Spencer, .45 Colt, .44 Colt) While I haven't tried Goex in .45 Auto Rim for my Webley, that might be pretty interesting.....

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:11 pm

I have been thinking of stocking up, myself, on powder. But I kinda like a few more choices. Bullseye for some of my pistols, 2400 for the mag pistols, 3031, 4895, at least for rifles. And I like Unique, and winchester 231 also. I guess I will have to think a little more on this.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:07 am

I like this topic.

I have decided to settle into 4 reloadable calibers.

.357, .45-70 and .410 and 12ga.

I've got about 5lbs of LilGun for the .410 & .357 and a lb each of 4198 & Varget for the .45-70.

Would be nice to have somting that worked well across the cartridge platforms. (well, I DO have about 15lbs of 3F lying about...)

Not sure what to load in the 12ga though. I'm waiting onmy 12ga Lee Loader before I go there.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:09 am

I have pared down considerably on my reloading, mostly to simplify component purchases; and do the most with the least. For powders-

H4895 for bottleneck rifles

W231 for 'zero to sixty' handgun loads

W296 for hot handgun loads

If I added a .45-70, H4198 would get the nod. I'd probably go with a .454 instead, just to be able to use bullets & powder I keep on hand anyhow.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:21 am

I think you could get by with 2, one handgun powder and one rifle powder.

2400 is on the edge of both, but you would limit your rifle velocity, so it depends on what you mean by "everything".

runfiverun · Post by **runfiverun** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:22 pm

it would have to be 4895 and unique with the bulk of it being unique

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:31 pm

I sure wish this topic was done 2 weeks ago before I bought 4 lbs of Bullseye. Although I think BE will cover my pistol needs pretty well. I don't shoot much hi-power rifle.

I do shoot pistol caliber rifles like 9mm and .45 in Marlin carbines and .357 and .44 in lever guns.

So what 1 powder would do for .30-30, .270winchester and .308?

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:07 pm

MikeS. wrote:.....

So what 1 powder would do for .30-30, .270winchester and .308?

H4895 will do a fine job in all three, and it is THE powder for factory duplication loads with your .30-30.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:13 pm

Sure, Bullseye would work great! I've shot 3 grains of that stuff in 45-90's and sailed 'em out about 500 fps. (NO, don't believe that) Like Hobie says, it would be extremely inconvenient to use just one powder. maybe Unique for all small cartridges and 3031 for the rest.----------Sixgun

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:45 pm

It would be cool to have a 'table of applicability' for powders which showed not load data, but just 'applicability' in the form of one plus for 'ok' and two plusses for 'good' three for 'great' and maybe a star if it is the 'original' powder the round was developed with.

The cartridges could be listed on one side and the powders across the top.

I do like the 'bulky' powders - less chance of a double charge.

clubkey · Post by **clubkey** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:33 pm

I've been thinking along those same lines with my reloading and any suggestions would be great appreciated. The cartridges I reload for are

32 ACP, 380 ACP, 9MM, 45 ACP, and 38/357 both revolver and rifle.

Bullseye or Unique have worked pretty good so far, but now that I've added the new Rossi Mod 92 I wonder if those powders would be too fast for the longer barrel length.

pahunter · Post by **pahunter** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:47 pm

That's a pretty eclectic group of rounds for one powder. My "one powder" is Titegroup. It takes small quanitites, so a pound of powder goes a loooong way, and it works for my 357 rifle and pistol. Along with a 22 rifle, those are the two I'm grabbing on an extended leave of absence.

Bigahh · Post by **Bigahh** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:53 pm

AJMD429 wrote:

I do like the 'bulky' powders - less chance of a double charge.

+1, especially if that Powder is Varget!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:18 am

pahunter wrote:That's a pretty eclectic group of rounds for one powder. My "one powder" is Titegroup. It takes small quanitites, so a pound of powder goes a loooong way, and it works for my 357 rifle and pistol. Along with a 22 rifle, those are the two I'm grabbing on an extended leave of absence.

I don't know how well titegroup would work in a big rifle case though. Seems you could hit max pressure really fast.

Not to say I don't like the stuff... I use it in 1-2gr increments in my .357... but still...

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:29 am

AJMD429 wrote:It would be cool to have a 'table of applicability' for powders which showed not load data, but just 'applicability' in the form of one plus for 'ok' and two plusses for 'good' three for 'great' and maybe a star if it is the 'original' powder the round was developed with.

The cartridges could be listed on one side and the powders across the top.

I do like the 'bulky' powders - less chance of a double charge.

That is a very practical idea, I like it.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:31 am

You really need two handgun powders if you are going to include the 1911. And, two rifle powders. 4 then is the minimum.

getitdone1 · Post by **getitdone1** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:39 pm

Old Savage wrote:You really need two handgun powders if you are going to include the 1911. And, two rifle powders. 4 then is the minimum.

Old Savage,

What 4 would you chose? Anyone?

I agree, the fewer the powder types the better as long as performance is sacrificed only a tiny bit.

Don McCullough

runfiverun · Post by **runfiverun** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:24 pm

4 powders for all
titegroup, 2400

4895, 4831

you could load up down and sideways with these 4 powders
and get from reasonable to outstanding in every cartridge
except maybe the 50 bmg, or the 25acp.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:54 am

Well, you could do a 'table of applicability'. Get Ken Waters' book, "Pet Loads" and do up a spreadsheet with all the cartridges and all the powders. One could then sort the darn thing out to weed out the seldom used. MY approach was, after acquiring a new-to-me cartridge, to once again review Mr. Waters' article(s) (his article had probably got me yearning for a gun in that chambering in the first place!) and start with powders I already had. If they work, I'm satisfied.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:15 am

The boundary conditions in choosing one powder that will suffice for all, at least for me, is this:

- You must be able to stuff enough of it in your handgun cartridge to still yield factory velocities

- In a large capacity rifle case, like the 45-70, you must be able to achieve the desired velocity without too high a pressure.

The result is a medium fast powder like 2400. I can still get max velocities out of my 44 Russian pistol cartridge (I have not tried it in the 45 ACP ... it may fail on that one) and I can get my desired velocity out of a 45-70 without too high a pressure.

Gryphon Black · Post by **Gryphon Black** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:16 am

The concept is worth examining.
My question is what do you want the rounds to be able to do?
I'm guessing you want ballisically effective terminal performance.
Or in other words, they have to be able to kill stuff.
In our guns, we'd choose the few that would be useful and leave the rest. That would be my Glock 35, her Ruger .357 stainless security six, one Mossberg pump 12g, and probly her 1894c as a deer rifle.
I wouldn't attempt to load for the 12guage, that would be just for emergency defense, I'd pack the necessary rounds for that. That leaves .40 smith and .357mag. I've found Power Pistol to be widely useful for that range of thing, but since I would figure on the .40 as light use, and the .357 as the main food getter, I'd err on the side of 2400.
Somehow, I don't think that's what you were looking for!

But given my limited experience, and what others have said, I think 2400 beats anything else for what you want to do. The key may be in choosing the few rounds you want to lean on for most duty, and supplying for that, while packing loaded ammo for the others you have along. That strategy would allow you to keep your equipment load simple, and still give you a few more choices of firearm than just the trusty squirell gun.
I do want to put in a plug, here. I found that if I needed to shoot my food, and I could pick one gun to cover all bases, it would be a mossberg 20g pump with a bird barrel and slightly choked. I have one, actually. That thing will pick squirells outa any tree around, and a slug will knock down a deer at any range I'd be likely to see one at. It won't beat you up, and it will sure as hell take out a human bad guy. Only reason my home defense is a 12 is cuz all the best and funnest shotgun rounds are made for 12, and my 12 hold 7 rnds in the tube.
But I think 2400 is what you were looking for...

Gryphon

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:59 am

I may have to buy a pound of 2400...

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:54 pm

Winchester Superlite, 2400 - 4064, RL 19.

Do they still make Suoerlite? If not Bullseye.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:30 pm

My emergency rifle is my H & R Handi-Rifle, and I have 3 barrels fitted for the piece. The barrels are 44 mag/ special, .308 with open sights and 24" barrel, And 12 ga. Turkey barrel W/ 3 1/2" chamber. This all breaks down in a Cordura case 25" long. I also have a portable reloading set-up which includes everything necessary to reload for all including a Lee Classic 12 ga loader. The Powder's are Unique for the 44 reloading & 12 ga. shotgun and Varget for the the .308.

If I were limited to only one Powder it would be a toss-up between Alliant Unique & 2400.