Black Powder in modern cartridges?

[El Chivo]

Does black powder work in cartridges like .357, 30-30, etc?

I've seen a lot of it at our reloading store, it's all they can get sometimes. I do enjoy watching the muzzleloaders shoot and that big puff of smoke and cool sound. One of my .357's is a long barrel, kind of feels like a musket. It might be fun to experiment with, as long as nothing else is available. Just thinking out loud at this point.

[guido4198]

Yes you can. I've not seen it done with bottleneck cases however. Someone else may be able to discuss that option. When loading cast bullets with blackpowder, your choice of bullet lube will make a difference. Good lubes for smokeless powders may not work too well with black. Be certain to seat the bullet against the powder....NO air space in the case. Be aware that blackpowder loads will leave fouling in your barrel between shots. Cleaning after shooting black will require some different techniques, and cleaning agents than you may be used to with smokeless.
Sooo...short answer is Yes, you can....but it's different.

[jhrosier]

I've loaded .41 Swiss and .500 S&W with Triple7 (bp substitute ) and had good results with both.
I use lead bullets lubed with Lars Carnauba Red. Lots of folks get good results with SPG lube.
I punch disks out of 1/32 polyethylene to put over the powder. This saves the cost of gas checks. You can cut the disks from milk jugs as that is the same material.
I have had best results using pistol primers even in rifle calibers, with black powder.
I dip the powder charge and use an amount that gives 1/16" or so compression when the bullet is seated.

I clean the gun with hot water with a bit of dish washing detergent, followed by a good oiling.
You will also have to clean the powder residue from the brass. I decap by hand and then throw the cases into a 2L juice bottle for washing. I wash twice, first with detergent & hot water, then with 1/3 white vinegar & water, then rinse twice with hot water and air dry.

The .500 S&W is a real hoot to shoot from a H&R single shot rifle with about 50 grs powder and a 440 gr bullet. I shot a 7" group at 200 yards with my 1881 vintage Swiss Vetterli rifle. That impressed me.

Jack

[Chuck 100 yd]

Black powder (the real stuff) was loaded in everything from the .22 short to the big .50`s in the days before smokeless powder. There is no reason it wont work today. Just don`t expect any velocity's matching factory ammo in modern cartridges though. The cases of today`s cartridges are too small to hold enough black to develop velocity's that match smokeless.

[Old Ironsights]

It's quite a hoot to shoot .357 with a case load of BP (out of a levergun)

I've run mine with both 3F & 4F. Shoots about like a .38sp+p using 4F.

[Ysabel Kid]

Several years back Y2K did a science project on ballistics. We loaded up a bunch of .38 Special ammunition with varying powder charges and bullet weights. Shot them through a Marlin 1894C. It was a bunch of fun. For kicks, I loaded up 5 rounds with blackpowder to let him shoot. He loved them! Smoke and flash - what wasn't to love? Funny too, because on the last shot the smoke detector in the range went off!

[Shasta]

Some years back when I was participating in Cowboy Action shooting I had a Davis .38 Special derringer as a belly gun. I loaded it with 15 grains of FFFg Goex black powder, a card wad, and a .350" pure lead round ball tightly crimped. I sold that gun quite a while ago, but last week I came across a box of those black powder round ball loads in my ammo cabinet. I took 'em out with my Ruger Police Service Six stainless steel double action revolver and proceeded to shoot the whole box, some rapid fire, without a hiccup and surprisingly good accuracy at a B27 style 7 yard target.

Black powder is very doable in many modern cartridges, especially in straight wall cases. As mentioned before, special care must be taken in the cleaning of both the firearm and the fired brass.

SHASTA

[Malamute]

I've used black in 45-70 and 44 spl, but nothing more modern than that. Should work fine in most cartridges, so long as realistic expectations of performance are kept in mind.

The 303 British was originally a black powder cartridge. I believe the loads ran around 1800 fps with a 215 gr jacketed bullet. Would be fun to run a few of those type loads through a Sht Lee Enfield.

[KWK]

A number of years ago, both Barsness and Sengel in the Wolfe magazines reported using it in .32 Win Spl. They got around 1400 fps with 170 gn bullets. I can get the issue dates if you need. I don't recall if they shot cast or jacketed bullets. Seyfriend once mentioned (but didn't go into detail) that at the end of the BP era, they began experimenting with the tougher, copper jacketed bullets, with success. A book I have on double rifles has loads for big bore BP express rifles firing jacketed, too.

[Washita]

If I remember correctly, the .38 Spl. was originally a BP cartridge. That's why the case is so much bigger than necessary for a smokeless load. With the .357 Mag. being only 1/8" longer I'd expect it to really perform well with a case full of BP.

[Malamute]

I loaded some black powder loads for my 45-70 with jacketed bullets. They seemed to shoot OK, but I wasn't shooting groups on paper to get a serious look at accuracy.

[harry]

I've used black in 45-70 and 44 spl, but nothing more modern than that. Should work fine in most cartridges, so long as realistic expectations of performance are kept in mind.

The 303 British was originally a black powder cartridge. I believe the loads ran around 1800 fps with a 215 gr jacketed bullet. Would be fun to run a few of those type loads through a Sht Lee Enfield.

Copied from Cast Bullets:
"The round, as originally adopted, consisted of a 215 Gr, round nosed, cupro nickel jacketed bullet with of 71.5 Gr of RFG2 Blackpowder. The powder charge was pressed into a pellet with both ends slightly rounded and pierced with a central flash propagating hole. There was a glazeboard wad on top of the charge to protect the bullet base. It had a small boxer type primer and was officially designated "Cartridge, S.A., Ball, Magazine Rifle, Mark 1.C. Solid Case, .303inch". Muzzle velocity was 1830 fps, chamber pressure about 19 tons per sq. The powder was placed in the cartridge and the the case was necked.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
So far the only caliber I can remember I have not loaded BP in is a caliber 7.62x 51 (308) CZ bolt rifle and an AR. All others have had BP down the bore.
You can make your own BP lube from any natural liquid (vege oil, olive oil... ) and beeswax. NO petrolium based products as it crystalizes into a hard mass with the BP fouling.
Seat the projectile so it compresses the BP. Think 5% + or minus of the BP column (length).
Some of the first BP cartriges were bottlenecks (44-77, 43 Spanish, 50-95 and numerous Sharps) so do not think it must be a straight wall.
Because you will not have high velocity Soft lead works better. I use 40-1 in most my shooting. If I want better penetration I add some WW to the mix.
Many modern style rifle bullet molds do not have enough grease capacity for BP. But you can nose dip the bullets or nose "smear" more lube and that will take care of insufficient lube.
Remember BP produces high temps so do not be surprised if the cylinder or chamber get hot.. it will.
You may need to wet patch swab the barrel to maintain the best accuracy but hey nothing is free. I find BP will easily match and often best any accuracy I can get with smokeless powder. But again you have to be satisfied with much lower velocity. But a 300 grain bullet moving at 1500 fps is nothing to try to stop with any body.
Mike in Peru