Anybody Loading 40-82 WCF with 5744 Powder or 300 gr Bullet?

[southfork]

It seems that there aren't too many firing Model 1886 Winchesters out there these days in 40-82. I guess maybe that's because reloading components haven't exactly been plentiful for that caliber. I had a thought about using .405 jacketed bullets made by Hornady in reloads. Anybody tried that?
Also, anybody got any successful recipes for using 5744 powder with any weight cast or jacketed bullet?

My 1886 is wanting to get used again, and deer season is coming up.

[3855]

I think you will find .405 bullets will give you poor accuracy as the bore of your rifle is likely at least .406 and could be as large as .409 or maybe a smidge bigger.

I generally shoot .408-.409" gas checked cast bullets with 5744. For best results you may have to thin the neck of your brass, whether inside or outside to allow these bullets to chamber.

On several 40-82's, I have sized down .410" WFLGC bullets designed for the 41 mag and used them with good results. I have also had good luck with blackpowder....what these guns were designed for.

Be very careful with 5744 as you can easily ruin an 86 with a double charge. Some folks advocate the use of fillers and have had no problems....at least so far. I also know of several 86's that have come apart or rung chambers with 5744 and fillers.

Be careful, shoot prudent loads and the 40-82 is a great shooting round.

[southfork]

Appreciate your input. I forgot to mention that my 1886 has a liner in the barrel and has never been fired since it had the liner put in a few years ago. I'll need to slug the bore to see what size it is. I stumbled across an article yesterday in an older "Rifle" magazine, wherein the writer in talking about his 1886 in 40-82 said that the bore was .405. That's what got me thinking of the Hornady '405 bullets for mine. But slugging the bore comes first to be sure where it's at.

[jorgy]

I use 280 grain cast bullets with a gas check sized to .408. My gunpowder I am using is 38 grains of IMR 3031.
I just loaded a bunch of 40-82 to 28 grains of 5744 but not shot any yet. You have to very careful when using
5744 in a large case because it can happen to double charge. I have my reloading set so I check every round before seating the bullet. Red River Bullets in St. Paul Mn makes these bullets. I do not cast any bullets myself

[geobru]

[quote="southfork"]It seems that there aren't too many firing Model 1886 Winchesters out there these days in 40-82. I guess maybe that's because reloading components haven't exactly been plentiful for that caliber. I had a thought about using .405 jacketed bullets made by Hornady in reloads. Anybody tried that?
Also, anybody got any successful recipes for using 5744 powder with any weight cast or jacketed bullet?
quote]

Southfork,
My 86 in 40-82 has a .409 barrel, so the bullets I use are sized .410. Cast bullets have to be sized to .410 to shoot accurately, but undersized jacketed bullets will do better than undersized cast bullets. The best group that I have shot at 100 yards is a 6 shot group that measured ~2.5". Without one flyer in that group, the group size was 1.26". The first 200 yard group I ever shot with it measured 3.25". Sounds pretty good, but it took quite a bit of shooting to figure out what powder to use with particular bullets.

Bullet weights that I have tried range from 250 to 275 grains. I have never tried a 300 grain bullet because I have not had one to try. Mike Venturino wrote about using a 300 gr. cast bullet that he shot through an original 86 in an article in Rifle magazine. The bullet stabilized in the express barrel and was pretty accurate IIRC.

I have tried loads using 5744, 3031, 4198, and RL-7. My hunting load is 25 gr 5744 with an LBT cast bullet, but I have an NEI bullet that likes 31 grains of RL7. The bullets I use didn't like IMR 4198. 3031 did ok, but I stopped using it because I got good results with powders that took lighter loads and didn't use as much powder. (Yep, I'm cheap!)

I use corn meal as a filler. I grind the CM very coarse in my grain mill. I proved over and over that shooting any smokeless powder in my 40-82 without a filler is a recipe for poor performance. This includes 5744, which is supposedly not position sensitive. I tried TP filler, but I got better accuracy with CM. YMMV. It seems like every bullet is different and requires unique load development.

I have a spreadsheet of 40-82 loads that I gathered over the years using a variety of powders and loads. If you are interested, PM me your email address I'll send it to you. There are loads that are safe for the old mild steel barrels and loads that require a nickel steel barrel. Generally, the safe loads for the older guns are travelling about 14-1500 fps. A chronograph is a necessary accessory!

I have had a lot of fun and frustration loading for the 40-82. It has been a great ride!

[Leverluver]

"405" bullets are not .405". They run in diameter from .411 to .413" with most being .412". 40-82s run from .405" to .408" with a few outside those figures. If your barrel was relined with the correct size for 40-82 it will be closer to .406" groove diameter (that's what a liner from Track of the Wolf is). I would not push any jacketed bullet that much oversized down any barrel, let alone an older lever gun. Although it may be possible that a .410" liner was installed. It that were the case (.410 is what I would do if I had to reline one), just a little squeeze through a sizer on a .411 jacketed bullet will get it compatible. I would not squeeze down a conventional (non bonded) bullet down any further as the jacket springs back and the core does not. Not good for accuracy or terminal performance. The only .405 Win bullet I am aware of that is truly bonded and could take a .001-.002" squeeze and still be a good bullet is a Woodleigh. They are very hard to find and are considerably more expensive that Hornadys.

[Sixgun]

3855 and geobro know what they are talking about........excellent advice.

My 40-82 is chambered in a 1885 HiWall. I use the 300 gr. bullet from an NEI mould that was originally designed for the .405 Winchester. It has the semi-spritzer shape so is not good for the levergun with tube mag. I size this bullet incrementally from .412 down to .408 and push it with 24 grains of 5744 for 1300+ fps.

I've won more local matches with this rifle than you can shake a stick at.------------Sixgun

ps-----stay away from fillers or any powder that requires them. Accurate Arms told me that 5744 does not need fillers and can be down right dangerous using them. They say a firm crimp is all that is needed. Like 3855 says, "be careful with this powder" It has a high nitro content and can send steel into orbit if misused.

[southfork]

I tired to find the Red River Bullet source for those gas-checked 280 grain cast bullets that Jorgy uses, but I am having no luck on line finding either the company or the bullets. Is Red River Bullets still in business? If so, How does one contact them to order their bullets? Jorgy? Anybody?

[Leverluver]

http://www.buffaloarms.com/40_82_Winche ... x?CAT=4142

Thsi will get you going for a jacketed bullet. They also have cast but are out of stock. Also have brass. Not cheap but better than nothing.

[jorgy]

Southfork I sent you a PM. Jorgy

[southfork]

Thanks leverluver and jorgy!