Beartooth 250Gr or 265Gr WFN in .44 mag ?

[wll]

How many of you use one or both of these bullets and what luck have you had with them in both a Rossi 92 and Marlin 94, I'm concerned about feeding issues ?

I want to buy a hundred plus and use those as my close range defensive pig, black bear, mountain lion load, I doubt that I will ever shoot this load past 75 yards or so. I will load it towards the max as I want at least 1600+ fps, if I can get it out of a 16 inch barrel. I plan on buying .4315 dia. as a mid way so I can use with my Rossi and Marlin, bullets will have gas checks. I will be using open sights for light weight, fast target acquisition and the fact their is less to go wrong, The gun will be sighted in around 100yds although it would be shooting about 3 inches high at 75. (my sight in range is to be determined after some more thought and testing on this matter).

I seriously doubt I will get in a position of danger with these animals, but I do go off in the woods by myself sometimes and I want a light carry gun that can stop any aggressor I'm likely to meet in the hills of Kalifornia ! I don't have to worry about large brown bears so I don't need a 300gr load, 250gr to 265gr is more than enough ........ I think !

I probably won't be hunting per say and if I do I have lots of Fiocchi 240gr flat nose SP for deer, coyote and the like.

Thank you for your help.

wll

[BigSky56]

Ive used beartooth 255's the wfn & the rnfp they fed fine thru my rossi grab some 2400 and load some up. And welcome ! danny

My mistake I just saw the 44 mag I was speaking of 45 cal bullets

[Old Savage]

What hills are you going to be in?

[wll]

What hills are you going to be in?

I now live in Lancaster. CA got here a couple of month ago. I'll be making my way in the high desert and beyond when it cools down ;- )

wll

[Old Savage]

Condor country around Lancaster. You will have to have lead free bullets. Talk to Ron at The Gun Shop.

[wll]

Condor country around Lancaster. You will have to have lead free bullets. Talk to Ron at The Gun Shop.

Will do, but since I will not be using them for hunting and will not be target practicing I may be OK, but I will check !

Just checked and I would be outside D11 for I should be fine.

wll

[mikld]

A 265 gr. bullet at 1600 fps is gonna be pretty punishing from a Rossi 20" levergun (to both shooter and gun). I shoot the same bullet in my Puma over some mid loads of WC820 and/or Bluedot. I would think that bullet at 1,000 fps would be good for anything you encounter (even a jeep) in So. CA...

[wll]

A 265 gr. bullet at 1600 fps is gonna be pretty punishing from a Rossi 20" levergun (to both shooter and gun). I shoot the same bullet in my Puma over some mid loads of WC820 and/or Bluedot. I would think that bullet at 1,000 fps would be good for anything you encounter (even a jeep) in So. CA...

Thank you but if I wanted to shoot 1000FPS I would use a handgun.

Not to be disrespectful, but I want 1600 FPS+ using a 250 or 265 large meplat lead boolet !

This round is for one purpose only, and that is to put a threat down and right now !, Like I said, I seriously doubt the shots would be over 75 yds!

wll

[C. Cash]

My boy shot this 185 pounder with the Ranch Dog 265 gr. in a 44 Special case....very mild load of 2400. Recoil is pretty much nil, but he could shoot it well. Maybe 1100-1200 fps? It went in at the gristle plate/shoulder and completely penetrated quartering through the hog and came out the other side(pictured). I knew it would kill him, but dang! Did the job quick. I would recommend Carolina Cast Bullets version of the Ranch Dog 265. Good folks there who will work with you for what you want. And you being able to use the 44 Mag. case would allow you to push it a good bit faster. I got the ones which were .432 for the oversize bore on our Marlin. Beartooth makes a wonderful bullet as well and I wouldn't hesitate to try theirs. I shoot their 210 gr. LFNGC in my 356 Winchester with great results.

[mikld]

A 265 gr. bullet at 1600 fps is gonna be pretty punishing from a Rossi 20" levergun (to both shooter and gun). I shoot the same bullet in my Puma over some mid loads of WC820 and/or Bluedot. I would think that bullet at 1,000 fps would be good for anything you encounter (even a jeep) in So. CA...

Thank you but if I wanted to shoot 1000FPS I would use a handgun.

Not to be disrespectful, but I want 1600 FPS+ using a 250 or 265 large meplat lead boolet !

This round is for one purpose only, and that is to put a threat down and right now !, Like I said, I seriously doubt the shots would be over 75 yds!

wll

Yep, there be some huge killer jack rabbits around Lancaster...

[Old Savage]

There really isn't much to defend yourself from around here. Never heard of anyone being attacked by anything other than people. Did see a rather threatening looking bovine one time up on Sierra Pelone that had wandered off the old Ritter Ranch.

[wll]

A 265 gr. bullet at 1600 fps is gonna be pretty punishing from a Rossi 20" levergun (to both shooter and gun). I shoot the same bullet in my Puma over some mid loads of WC820 and/or Bluedot. I would think that bullet at 1,000 fps would be good for anything you encounter (even a jeep) in So. CA...

Thank you but if I wanted to shoot 1000FPS I would use a handgun.

Not to be disrespectful, but I want 1600 FPS+ using a 250 or 265 large meplat lead boolet !

This round is for one purpose only, and that is to put a threat down and right now !, Like I said, I seriously doubt the shots would be over 75 yds!

wll

Yep, there be some huge killer jack rabbits around Lancaster...

The jacks are very large, especially after a little white lightning ;- )

wll

[6pt-sika]

I got a box of the Beartooth 250 grainers from someone on another forum . I never tried them in a 44 MAG but I did use them in a 444 with decent enough results .

In a little Marlin 336-44 44 MAG carbine I used to have I shot cast bullets from 240-325 grains . I pushed them all with H-110 .

With the Ranch Dog 432-240GC I shot 24 or 25 grains of H-110 .
With the Ranch Dog 432-265GC I shot 23 grains H-110 ,
With the Ranch Dog 432-300GC I shot 21 grains H-110.
With my MM/RD 432-325GC I shot 19 grains H-110 although this one just started to yaw a tiny bit at 100 yards . So it was right on the edge of being destabalized !
Incidently all these loads were max , I think the 240 grainer got to 1600 FPS from the 20" barrel but I'm pretty sure that the others did not .

All these loads worked fine in the old circa 1967 Marlin 336-44 I had , but in a Ruger Flattop Blackhawk of 1957 vintage they were rather hard on my knucles . Seemed the trigger guard loved rapping the knucle on my middle finger , but that could be blamed on me aving rather large hands .

[wll]

My boy shot this 185 pounder with the Ranch Dog 265 gr. in a 44 Special case....very mild load of 2400. Recoil is pretty much nil, but he could shoot it well. Maybe 1100-1200 fps? It went in at the gristle plate/shoulder and completely penetrated quartering through the hog and came out the other side(pictured). I knew it would kill him, but dang! Did the job quick. I would recommend Carolina Cast Bullets version of the Ranch Dog 265. Good folks there who will work with you for what you want. And you being able to use the 44 Mag. case would allow you to push it a good bit faster. I got the ones which were .432 for the oversize bore on our Marlin. Beartooth makes a wonderful bullet as well and I wouldn't hesitate to try theirs. I shoot their 210 gr. LFNGC in my 356 Winchester with great results.

That is a nice looking hog and glad to hear the 265 grainer did it's job ;- )

wll

[wll]

There really isn't much to defend yourself from around here. Never heard of anyone being attacked by anything other than people. Did see a rather threatening looking bovine one time up on Sierra Pelone that had wandered off the old Ritter Ranch.

Old Savage, your right. This gun will be set up for short range hunting and protection. It will be loaded with 250gr or 265gr flat nosed gas checked boolits. I plan on loading it around 1600fps, I may keep it around 1500 +, but I have to experiment when I get the gun.

wll

[wll]

I got a box of the Beartooth 250 grainers from someone on another forum . I never tried them in a 44 MAG but I did use them in a 444 with decent enough results .

In a little Marlin 336-44 44 MAG carbine I used to have I shot cast bullets from 240-325 grains . I pushed them all with H-110 .

With the Ranch Dog 432-240GC I shot 24 or 25 grains of H-110 .
With the Ranch Dog 432-265GC I shot 23 grains H-110 ,
With the Ranch Dog 432-300GC I shot 21 grains H-110.
With my MM/RD 432-325GC I shot 19 grains H-110 although this one just started to yaw a tiny bit at 100 yards . So it was right on the edge of being destabalized !
Incidently all these loads were max , I think the 240 grainer got to 1600 FPS from the 20" barrel but I'm pretty sure that the others did not .

All these loads worked fine in the old circa 1967 Marlin 336-44 I had , but in a Ruger Flattop Blackhawk of 1957 vintage they were rather hard on my knucles . Seemed the trigger guard loved rapping the knucle on my middle finger , but that could be blamed on me aving rather large hands .

6pt-sika,

Thank you for your info, I may be a bit over exuberant about my velocity wants, but I do want a heavier then 240gr WFN bullet if it will feed.

I just sent a email to Beartooth to see if they have some kind of a sample program as all I need is a few of the 250 and 265 WFN to see if they feed.


wll

[Old Savage]

wll, that should easily be doable. I have a load that gets 1350 fps from a 45 Colt with a custom 360 Keith and for some reason not bad to shoot. I talked to Ron about the lead free and he only knows one case that actual encounter occurred. They did not take the guys gun. I think he thinks enforcement may be uneven and a fine more likely depending on the Game Warden involved and maybe the attitude of the hunter. I don't think he thinks his opinion is any real guide line at this point. What we have found with other calibers is that the TSX and the like allow you to drop in weight and still get penetration due to the retained weight and consistent bullet performance, really an advancement in bullet performance capability. They did us a favor in a way. Good to have a box of them available that you have tested in case you want to use the rifle in a Condor Zone. It will likely become a favorite rifle. My 92 will clover leaf at 50 yds with I forget what 240 factory ammo. I'll have to check on that.

[wll]

wll, that should easily be doable. I have a load that gets 1350 fps from a 45 Colt with a custom 360 Keith and for some reason not bad to shoot. I talked to Ron about the lead free and he only knows one case that actual encounter occurred. They did not take the guys gun. I think he thinks enforcement may be uneven and a fine more likely depending on the Game Warden involved and maybe the attitude of the hunter. I don't think he thinks his opinion is any real guide line at this point. What we have found with other calibers is that the TSX and the like allow you to drop in weight and still get penetration due to the retained weight and consistent bullet performance, really an advancement in bullet performance capability. They did us a favor in a way. Good to have a box of them available that you have tested in case you want to use the rifle in a Condor Zone. It will likely become a favorite rifle. My 92 will clover leaf at 50 yds with I forget what 240 factory ammo. I'll have to check on that.

I went over to The Gun Shop yesterday and bought some 44 mag snap caps and checked on the condor map. As long as I'm east of the 14 I'm good.

I talked to a couple of the guys there and they were helpful. I then made the mistake of going to the gun rack and saw a nice Marlin 30-30 with a short barrel (I think it was an 18" barrel) and laminated stock .... nice gun. Yes it was a Remlin but it looked very very good, the wood to metal fit was better than I expected and the action seemed nice, maybe the folks at Remington have got things up and running correctly. I know from first hand that changes in manufacturing take a while to get ironed out.

I had to drag myself away and get in the car fast, other wise I would have been poorer and my rent would not have been paid ; -)

As it was I was thinking about that gun all night long !

wll

[Old Savage]

I saw that Marlin and wanted it but - alas - more on the queue already. I say get it - it is better for your D11 type roaming than the other. But of course you should have both. Who did you talk to? They all have their names on their shirts. That way I will know what you heard.

If that 30-30 shoots it is perfect. The actions are a little stiff due to the finish but I am sure they would slick up.

Btw, Ron is a big Marlin fan and very knowledgeable. He use to write for Wolfe in the cast bullets annual. Won't find anyone more knowledgeable on that stuff.

[wll]

I saw that Marlin and wanted it but - alas - more on the queue already. I say get it - it is better for your D11 type roaming than the other. But of course you should have both. Who did you talk to? They all have their names on their shirts. That way I will know what you heard.

If that 30-30 shoots it is perfect. The actions are a little stiff due to the finish but I am sure they would slick up.

Btw, Ron is a big Marlin fan and very knowledgeable. He use to write for Wolfe in the cast bullets annual. Won't find anyone more knowledgeable on that stuff.

I made a boo boo .. it was a youth gun with a 16.25 barrel, I must have had more sauce than I thought, LOl, LOL, LOL.

This whole adventure has got me thinking that maybe I need to get rid of my nice 336 that has a beautiful walnut stock and go for the usability of the gun. I have a beautiful 336 in 30-30 and beautiful 1894 in 357, both have never been shot, the 357 is a show piece. The guns were purchased maybe 6 or 8 years ago, and have been in my safe since !

With the way things are, I'm thinking more on the lines of protection and when the grid goes out, I want shooters not a wall hanger !

I'm assessing my values !

wll

[Old Savage]

Both good guns - I would keep them. They aren't making any more as they say. The 357 could be particularly handy for some of what you are interested in.

[6pt-sika]

I made a boo boo .. it was a youth gun with a 16.25 barrel, I must have had more sauce than I thought, LOl, LOL, LOL.

Thats a Model 336Y . I had one of those for awhile , bought it for my exwife and when we split the gun came with me . THing shot lovely with cast or jacketed . The short stock was shootable but I found it was better when I swapped the stock off the Marlin 1894FG I had at the time .

[wll]

I made a boo boo .. it was a youth gun with a 16.25 barrel, I must have had more sauce than I thought, LOl, LOL, LOL.

Thats a Model 336Y . I had one of those for awhile , bought it for my exwife and when we split the gun came with me . THing shot lovely with cast or jacketed . The short stock was shootable but I found it was better when I swapped the stock off the Marlin 1894FG I had at the time .

Ya, it was a nice gun and the right size for a car gun, but I've got my Rossi 92 in 44 mag coming, so we shall see.

wll

[C. Cash]

The 357 mag. in a rifle really shines.