'Cowboy' bedrolls, need some 'splainin' done

[wecsoger]

Something I'm trying to find out more about, and with the oldtimers, er chronically advantaged members we have here I'm sure there's some good information around.

First off, what I'm seeing in Cabelas and couple other places are more canvas sleeping bag liners. Approx 4' by 8' with zipper down the side.

The old school bed rolls or soogans were a sheet of canvas, approximately 7' by18' or so. Lay it out, blankets on the top half, fold the bottom half up, then the sides over

First off, I'm seeing a lot of info on rolling them up, but not how they were actually used. Were they rolled out, the top opened up and the occupant slid down into it? Seems unwieldy for getting in and out.

Or were they rolled out, all unfolded and you made up your bed there? Seems a lot of work every night, then put it all back together in the morning. And then there's the issue of protection from the weather.

Online sources that mention the blankets talk about laying one blanket on the left, overlap in the middle with one on the right for as many blankets as you have or want, then bring the sides up and over, overlapping again. This isn't working for me since it's a pain to overlap them again on top and the previously mentioned logistics problem of getting in and out.

I've been playing around with the concept with an 8'x16' tarp, foam pad, couple standard blankets and really not getting things to work as I thought they should.

For what it's worth, walmart has some regular, gray basic blankets, not wool but they look period for just five bucks or so. I've got several of them and a couple if the issue military ones also.

I'm figuring all I need to know was invented and discovered years ago, so there's no need for me to re-invent the wheel.

Oh, yeah. I know what works, I've got a current high tech mummy sleeping bag and a Cabelas heavy rectangular one - both of which I'm good in down to 20 F or so. I'm trying to learn how it was really done, back in the day.

Comments, suggestions, good ideas?

[Tycer]

I'm interested.

[FatJackDurham]

I would think, just lay the canvas on the ground to block the sand and moisture, then sleep under the blankets, head on your saddle......

[Blaine]

What's underneath is more important than whats on top....In a nasty-azz shelter half tent, I'd lay out the poncho put bag on it, they bring the rest of poncho over top of bag...very warm/dry...those dang bags would quadruple in weight all soaked down....

[horsesoldier03]

As far as the military bedrolls, you take a wool blanket and lay it flat and then fold the two sides in where they meet in the center. On one end, you roll the top edge of the blanket back behind itself (approx 10") so that it makes a pocket on the end. Roll the foot of the blanket to the head and then pull the tucked pocket back over the body of the rolled blanket. They also had a black wet weather poncho that they would wrap the bed roll in to protect it from the weather.

Hope that helps.

[perry owens]

There's a thread about bedrolls on The Shootists, a UK western reenactors site
http://shootists.websitetoolbox.com/thing ... ?&trail=15
Might be some useful info there.

Perry Owens

[PriseDeFer]

From Western movies it is easy to see the true nature and purpose of The Bedroll. It is a small, thin cloth that contains anything and everything you would need on a long trip or a life of drifting from town to ranch to cattle drive and back to town. Its volume and weight are unaffected by anything that is rolled within so that it always will sit neatly just behind the saddle and permit the horse to run like the wind.

[williamranks]

When the ex and I would camp we used a queen size air bed. We covered it with a large space blanket, shiny side up, added fitted sheets and a comforter and slept warm even at 9,000 feet.
When my father was dying I had to go up to Maine in Jan and sleep in an unheated room at his apartment. I went to WalMart and bought a cheap space blanket to put under the bottom sheet. I was too warm with more than one blanket.

[Don McDowell]

Oh, yeah. I know what works, I've got a current high tech mummy sleeping bag and a Cabelas heavy rectangular one - both of which I'm good in down to 20 F or so. I'm trying to learn how it was really done, back in the day.

Comments, suggestions, good ideas?

There was no set "bedroll". The bedroll would be what ever the individual had/wanted. Some carried a wool sweater wore it at night for extra warmth and covered with their slicker. Some carried a piece of canvas and a blanket. Some had what is similar to a sleeping bag...
A lot depended on whether they had to carry everything on the horse , where space is a premium, and weight and bulk limited, or were they working out of a "wagon" where everything was carried in the supply wagon, and they rode out of camp everyday..

[Old Ironsights]

From Western movies it is easy to see the true nature and purpose of The Bedroll. It is a small, thin cloth that contains anything and everything you would need on a long trip or a life of drifting from town to ranch to cattle drive and back to town. Its volume and weight are unaffected by anything that is rolled within so that it always will sit neatly just behind the saddle and permit the horse to run like the wind.

[Pete44ru]

.

Blanket rolls were the cowboy's version of a sleeping bag.

It takes two wool blankets to make one:
Lay one blanket on the floor, completely stretched out, then lay the other blanket on it, with one edge meeting up with the middle of the first blanket.
Fold the bottom blanket over onto the top of the second blanket, so it's folded in half, enclosing half of the second blanket.
Now, fold the second blanket on top of that.
Starting at one end of the folded blankets, roll the blankets as tightly as you can.
Cinch the blankets together either with two leather belts about 1/3 of the way from the edge of both sides & a 3rd belt for a carry handle, or loop one end of a rope around the blanket roll, 1/3 of the way from one end, then loop the other end of the rope 1/3 of the way up the other side - the carry handle is the rope between the 2 cinches.
When you want to sleep at night, you just rolled out your blanket roll and used your saddle for a pillow.

Of course, us vets would lay a milsurp rain poncho down on the ground before starting the balnket fold/roll, rolling the blankets (and kit) inside the poncho.




.

[wecsoger]

Good comments all and I checked links which took me to other links, and so on.

But so far, this question is like the legendary Jackalope, plenty of discussion but no hard details. (grin)

Yes, I know people have done a lot sleeping rough to get themselves through the night. But the cowboy bedroll has been around, used, and I'm still curious which is why I posted my original questions. I did a quick Google search on images, here's a couple


You can see where they pitched them out of the chuckwagon and rolled them out, I guess to air out


Another chuckwagon picture. Credit where due, I found these two at
http://wmtpmuseum.com/page20.php

[MacEntyre]

If'n yer gonna examine what you see in the movies... how is it that a cowboy put a little bedroll and a pair of saddle bags on his horse, but ended up in camp with a coffee pot, tin cup, plate, and a fry pan? (...and sometimes a big wooden box as in True Grit 2010!)

[Bruce Scott]

Here's one method - made somewhat upmarket with rings and snaps:



Borrowed from:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusio ... tid/87142/

And a video - doesn't address getting in & out tho'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDgOTTVPnS0

[Model 52B]

If'n yer gonna examine what you see in the movies... how is it that a cowboy put a little bedroll and a pair of saddle bags on his horse, but ended up in camp with a coffee pot, tin cup, plate, and a fry pan? (...and sometimes a big wooden box as in True Grit 2010!)

That's easy - that had it all shipped ahead to the campsite via UPS.

[Pete44ru]

If'n yer gonna examine what you see in the movies... how is it that a cowboy put a little bedroll and a pair of saddle bags on his horse, but ended up in camp with a coffee pot, tin cup, plate, and a fry pan? (...and sometimes a big wooden box as in True Grit 2010!)

That's easy - that had it all shipped ahead to the campsite via UPS.

Pony UPS.



.

[L_Kilkenny]

It's great to be curious about bedrolls, I was a few years ago and did plenty of Google research on them and assembled a few. What came to my attention fairly quickly was how much better and lighter a $100 sleeping bag is. A decent bedroll weighs a ton and is bulky as all get out if you want to get any warmth from em. I'm all for tradition and cowboy stuff but I'll eat my hat if any cowboy would of used a bedroll in lieu of a sleeping bag if available. Heck, even the old, heavy mil-surp bags are a godsend compared to bedrolls.

[AJMD429]

If'n yer gonna examine what you see in the movies... how is it that a cowboy put a little bedroll and a pair of saddle bags on his horse, but ended up in camp with a coffee pot, tin cup, plate, and a fry pan? (...and sometimes a big wooden box as in True Grit 2010!)

It's the Tardus effect - small on the outside, great big on the inside...

[winchester1886]

Go to J M Capriola's site they are in Elko Nev, or Tip's Western they are in Winnemucca Nev, they both have proper cowboy bedrolls, plus they show how to fold them.
I like the way R M Williams from here in Australia fold theirs, lay your canvas out flat, folding the long side down a couple of feet, and then the bottom side up a couple of feet, then fold one end in a third of the length of your canvas and the other end the same, they have straps to do up on the edge to stop the wind blowing them open. When you slide in you put your head and feet under the two feet pieces you first folded, plus any goodies you want to, when you get out you just roll it up and they have straps that go round them to stop them coming open. Then in America you chuck it on the Hoodlum Wagon and of it goes to the next camp.

[MacEntyre]

Wow! Bruce Scott, that diagram specifies 14 square yards of waterproof canvas at 18 oz... that's about 1.3 oz per square yard, which, in my humble experience, cannot be achieved with canvas, but can only be achieved with silnylon!

I like that rig, though... great diagram.

[Bruce Scott]

Agreed. I don't know who added the handwritten note but if they're referring to the all up weight of the canvas it has to be way off.

Edit: On reflection, it's more likely to be 18 oz canvas ( i.e., 18 oz per sq yard), which makes for almost 15 3/4 lbs all up.

[Model 52B]

Agreed. I don't know who added the handwritten note but if they're referring to the all up weight of the canvas it has to be way off.

Edit: On reflection, it's more likely to be 18 oz canvas ( i.e., 18 oz per sq yard), which makes for almost 15 3/4 lbs all up.

The notation is a rough conversion from 18 oz per square yard to grams per square meter. All they have converted is the 18 oz to 510 grams and they are assuming a square yard is close enough to a square meter not to bother with converting the area. One square meter is equal to 1.2 square yards, so the difference would be that a square meter of "18 oz" canvas would weigh 21.6 oz, or 614 grams.

A 7' x 18' piece of 18 oz canvas is still going to weigh 15.75 pounds or 7.1 kilos, even before you add the bedding, so it's heavy by modern sleeping bag standards. On the other hand it also serves as a tent, and given that a 2 man tent weighs anywhere from 3.5 to 7 pounds, it's not all bad, and it's more compact than a sleeping bag and tent.

[L_Kilkenny]

On the other hand it also serves as a tent, and given that a 2 man tent weighs anywhere from 3.5 to 7 pounds, it's not all bad, and it's more compact than a sleeping bag and tent.

Weight of a modern sleep system goes up even more when you toss in a Thermorest and a ground sheet for the tent. Still, if one were to set the limits of their sleep/shelter system at 20lbs (which is a ton by today's camping standards), comfort and effectiveness is gonna be TEN FOLD in favor of a modern system.

Size can be just as important as weight and as already addressed, don't be fooled by the size of the rolls you see in the movies. Those things ain't any bigger than the size of a good wool blanket. An actual bedroll system is about as big as a good size duffle bag. Not quite military duffle size but you get the idea. Where as I can stuff a tent, sleeping bag, small thermorest pad and ground sheet into a 8"x18" stuff sack.

[MacEntyre]

If course, you are correct... it has to be 18 oz canvas. That makes sense.

Another comparison between modern sleep systems and the vintage canvas bedroll... what they did with the bedroll as a "bivvy sack" works very well with canvas because it is somewhat vapor permeable. Even water repellant canvas breathes well enough to keep condensation from building up inside. If one used a modern material in the same way, condensation would be a huge problem.

As for the size... in winter, imagine if you carried a duffle sized bedroll, as well as a buffalo hide. That would be a large package!

[Model 52B]

If course, you are correct... it has to be 18 oz canvas. That makes sense.

Another comparison between modern sleep systems and the vintage canvas bedroll... what they did with the bedroll as a "bivvy sack" works very well with canvas because it is somewhat vapor permeable. Even water repellant canvas breathes well enough to keep condensation from building up inside. If one used a modern material in the same way, condensation would be a huge problem.

As for the size... in winter, imagine if you carried a duffle sized bedroll, as well as a buffalo hide. That would be a large package!

Canvas is one of those things you have to age into to fully appreciate it's less obvious qualities.

Back in the day when I'd spend the night in a tent in the winter, frost liners were important as you wanted to catch the frost or moisture on something other than the tent, because generally speaking it was not going to find it's way outside and even in warmer weather it's annoying to touch the side of a nylon tent and have water wick onto what ever was touching it. And once you added frost liners, a 5 pound tent and storm fly was suddenly a 7 pound tent.

One of the survival skills I was taught was to dig a shallow trench and heat it with coals from the fire, then back fill it with the loose dirt to cover the coals enough to be warm, but not hot to the touch. Place a poncho on top as a vapor barrier to prevent any steam rising from the dirt from condensing on you and then place your sleeping bag or bed roll on top of the poncho. Finally, add more insulation such as pine boughs on top of the sleeping bag or bedroll. Even when the coals go out, your poncho, bed roll, pine boughs, plus any snow on top insulates and slows any heat loss from the ground and you stay warm all night long even without a tent due to the latent heat radiating from the ground.

In my opinion, a bed roll is even better as you've got a canvas top layer that you can stay under during the night that makes the whole thing easier to put together and better protected than just a sleeping bag.

[BruceB]

From Western movies it is easy to see the true nature and purpose of The Bedroll. It is a small, thin cloth that contains anything and everything you would need on a long trip or a life of drifting from town to ranch to cattle drive and back to town. Its volume and weight are unaffected by anything that is rolled within so that it always will sit neatly just behind the saddle and permit the horse to run like the wind.

If'n yer gonna examine what you see in the movies... how is it that a cowboy put a little bedroll and a pair of saddle bags on his horse, but ended up in camp with a coffee pot, tin cup, plate, and a fry pan? (...and sometimes a big wooden box as in True Grit 2010!)

I remember watching a "Bat Masterson" episode that his bedroll apparently contained not only his black suit and gold vest, but his black derby also.

[Old Ironsights]

From Western movies it is easy to see the true nature and purpose of The Bedroll. It is a small, thin cloth that contains anything and everything you would need on a long trip or a life of drifting from town to ranch to cattle drive and back to town. Its volume and weight are unaffected by anything that is rolled within so that it always will sit neatly just behind the saddle and permit the horse to run like the wind.

If'n yer gonna examine what you see in the movies... how is it that a cowboy put a little bedroll and a pair of saddle bags on his horse, but ended up in camp with a coffee pot, tin cup, plate, and a fry pan? (...and sometimes a big wooden box as in True Grit 2010!)

I remember watching a "Bat Masterson" episode that his bedroll apparently contained not only his black suit and gold vest, but his black derby also.

He was part owner in a Haberdashery in every town he visited...

[Bruce Scott]

These two links list the equipment carried on the march by the Australian Light Horse during WWI:

http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Ho ... field-kit/

http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Ho ... order-kit/

Assuming the soldier weighed 140 lbs, the full load on the horse was reckoned to be 255 lbs