Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

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FatJackDurham
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Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

It took about two weeks and a statistically significant proportion of my Enco 50-packs to polish out the tool marks on my new barrel, but finally, It was done and time to start rust blueing the barrel. The polishing lathe I built out of a metal cutting bandsaw did it's job and even helped with the carding of the rusted barrel. So, I started rust bluing using the Pilkingtons that was left over from my Rossi 92.0 rebuild. With that project, I had a browning effect on the barrel although the receiver went a perfect gray. I thought it might be something to do with different metals, different prep on the barrel, maybe the degreaser I was using, or the well water at my house. So, I decided to use distilled water with the Rolling Block, and acetone as a degreaser.

I started the barrel first and the receiver on the second iteration of the barrel. Through the next 4 cycles, I boiled them together, then I did three more cycles with the receiver. As with the Rossi, I had different results between the two. This time, the chromemoly barrel staged dark gray, and the receiver took a brown tinge.

I should also point out, that I followed Sixgun's (I think) advice this time and carded before boiling rather that after.

The outer coat, and from a distance it looks grey.
Image

From the rear, it looks dark
Image

As you get closer, you can see the streaks and shades begin to diverge. The light part down by the right side SarcasmaBolt I think is a bit of hardening that I should have torched up before blueing. I had that issue on the lower tang and trigger guard, and heating before applying the solution fixed that up. (Also a tip I think from Sixgun, or someone for my Trapdoor project).
Image

When angled just right, the red rust below the surface is visible. To the naked eye, this just looks brown. I don't know if something prevents this from boiling black, but no matter how much I degrease, heat or boil this, once it's there, it doesn't get covered.
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This marbling looks almost like a lacquered finish, and you might be tempted to say I haven't blued it enough, and mayby I haven' t but this was six cycles. The brown color and marbled finish appeared around the fourth cycle, and didn't change with further treatments.
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No trace or red at all on the barrel itself.
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The rust blue removed all traces TO THE TOUCH of the sanding, but leaves a mottled under coat. This was five cycles worth.
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I am pretty sure that another three or four cycles on the barrel would darken it near black, but I did notice between the fourth and fifth cycle, that there wasn't very much additional darkening. Also, the flash penetrates the blueing a bit and exaggerates the effect, but in bright sun light you can still see it.
Image

Overall, this Pilkington's rust blue seems to have a depth to it. I am pretty certain I am degreasing well with the acetone both before applying the solution, AND before boiling. But, as with the Rossi project, I am just not satisfied with it. I have ordered the Brownells classic rust blue, and will probably use a rust and blue remover and try again. I also have some belgian blue, but it didn't seem to cut through the sanding marks as well as the rust blue did.

Anyway, thoughts and suggestions?
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olyinaz
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by olyinaz »

My thought is that it is a very pleasant look! Why would you want it perfect unless the wood was new and perfect and you'd recut every screw/re-stamped every letter? I LIKE IT JUST THE WAY IT IS.
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FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

Sigh... Yeah, but, I am trying to learn to do things right. It frustrates me that this is the second time I have had problems with the rust blue. Thanks, though.
Mescalero
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by Mescalero »

I am with oly, I think it looks fine.
I remember what you started with.
That is Star Trek compared to what you started with.
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JReed
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by JReed »

I like it. :D
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FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

Okay. I'll press on with the action then. I can always do it again if i get new wood.
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ollogger
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by ollogger »

Jezz it looks great to me also!!!



ollogger
Alphawolf45
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by Alphawolf45 »

I used up a bottle of Pilkingtons and don't want any more of it.. I like Laurel Mountain Forge Brown and Degreaser.
Don't have to degrease with acetone.. Gives a nice black finish as good as Pilkingtons but faster in my experience...

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... d7780.aspx
FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

Oops. I got my new carding wheel and put it on my grinder. Well, it was too fast and I burnished the blue/brown right off. Oh, well, I wanted to redo it anyway.

THis time, I used the torch and it seems to be taking well. We'll see. I also got some of Brownells Classic Rust Blue. I hope for better results that way.
FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

Sigh. Using the torch made it darken properly, however, I think I heated too much because the bluing appears coarse. I am going to stop for now and move on to soldering the front sight for now. I will need to completely restrip, sand and prep the receiver.

However, the hammer and breach block took a very nice start to bluing after just one cycle. The screws, too.

Plus, my dishwasher drain seems to be plugged.
Mescalero
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by Mescalero »

Uh Oh
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Sixgun
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by Sixgun »

Jack,
Those things happen, especially with old, ,old guns where they were made with iron that was not pure. In those days, they melted the iron and if it looked good, "they went to town". That's why your barrel looks better, its softer steel and with the receiver, you are getting "hard spots" or "contaminated spots".

No, card after boiling, use steel wool as a carding wheel or other harsher measure will give it that "wissed" look, that comes from a wire wheel.

Clean, degrease, and rinse with WATER between boilings. As for degreasers, never use a type that has any kind of petro. products in it. I use Simple Green. After the final rinse, heat the metal up to get rid of condensation, get it hot to the touch, and apply another coat of rust blue only wiping ONE time. I think you are wiping off what you just boiled on. Its best to wait a day or two between coats...let the molecules "set".

The gun still looks nice. Sometimes WE, the "gunsmiths" over scrutinize our own work. :D ---------6
1st. Gen. Colt SAA’s, 1878 D.A.45 and a 38-55 Marlin TD

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FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

thanks, sixgun, as usual for the support and tips. The carding wheel does seem to be a bit useless.

I could have sworn you said in another post to card of the rust before boiling, which I have been doing. In fact, I have been carding both before and after.

Anyways, the troubles continue. After soldering a brass shim onto the Pedersoli combination front sight, I fitted it and tapped it in, and voila, the barrel has twisted AGAIN. Even with the lock nut, it doesn't seem to hold. I missed the fact that I was getting tired and smashed the Pedersoli sight driving it out, waste of $80 dollars or what ever I spent.

After checking that the receiver was level and the barrel tight, I went to work with the triangle file and stone and leveled the front dovetail. It is now opened up to about .450, though. I took the Beech front site off my Steven's, which is a .450 and tapped it in. It's snug and level, however, the dovetail now descends about half the depth of the barrel wall.

Just when I thought I was done tapping and filing, when I assembled the gun, it now turns out that the extractor I custom made no longer fit!!!!!! Zut alor!

I am going to take the gun down to a different gunsmith and see how much it will cost to have the barrel turned down one thread, the tip cut off so I can start a new front sight dove tail, and the extractor slot properly cut. And I will ask him to torque the barrel on properly.

I am still hoping to sell my motorcycle to get the money necessary to pay for this. If this work costs more than $200, then this gun might have to go back into the safe until I can take a gunsmithing program and learn to do this right. I hope not, I am soooooooo close!. I could actually fire the gun as it is, but I'd have to drive out the cases from the front......
FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

But, I did fix the dishwasher.....
bdhold

Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by bdhold »

as a RB fan, I vote yea.
FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

Sixgun,

Sometimes, I notice the blue solution actually seems to lift of the bluing from previous applications. Is this normal, or have I not done something right?

I try to make sure the patch I use is squeezed out.

On that note, I also noticed that Brownells Steel White turns the steel dark after I take the peice out, rinse it and degrease it with acetone.

Is the rust desolver and rust blue solution similar, or is this just a fluke?
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by Sixgun »

FatJackDurham wrote:Sixgun,

Sometimes, I notice the blue solution actually seems to lift of the bluing from previous applications. Is this normal, or have I not done something right?

I try to make sure the patch I use is squeezed out.

On that note, I also noticed that Brownells Steel White turns the steel dark after I take the peice out, rinse it and degrease it with acetone.

Is the rust desolver and rust blue solution similar, or is this just a fluke?

Jack,
Read my third paragraph above. After you boil the gun, the blue is still very weak and can easily be rubbed off. The blue solution will wipe off what you just boiled on. That's why I wait a day or two between coatings and even then, ONLY WIPE ON ONE TIME. Going back and forth will take the blue off. Use a cotton patch that is wet, but no sloppy wet and wipe on ONE TIME. Before putting the solution on, heat the metal with a propane torch until the water disappears. (hot to the touch)

After you put the final coat on, never use an oil that has dissolvers in it. I use Rem-Oil but only after several days AFTER I boil the last coat on. Rust blue is very fragile for a month or two.. Yes, it takes that long to cure, so be careful wiping down the gun with anything.------6
1st. Gen. Colt SAA’s, 1878 D.A.45 and a 38-55 Marlin TD

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FatJackDurham
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Re: Project Lemonton: Rust Blue Frustration

Post by FatJackDurham »

Got it. Thanks, I'll do that.
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