It was just for back pain, but got me all excited...

[AJMD429]

...when I saw this return address on a package to my wife:

Pain Wizard.jpg

It turns out it is this 'liniment' (topical analgesic cream) that is TERRIFIC. If you haven't tried it, it really works well - my wife and I like it better than prescription stuff (like Voltaren). It's called "Pain Wizard" and some local stores may sell it, but if you use lots of it, ordering from the manufacturer is cheaper.

[Blaine]

Never mind....I decided to fully read your post and it answered my question..... Dang Old People.....I've been experimenting with using topical medicine with IPA as a solvent that would carry it into the dermis deeper......Might work, and might not

[jkbrea]

Let us know how it works. I've been going through a lot of icy/hot and biofreeze since my shoulder replacement.

[66GTO]

Is this it?



The ingredients look similar to something I use for arthritis called "Two Old Goats".

[AJMD429]

Yep, that's it. It works well - already using it.

Biofreeze and IcyHot are both worth trying if you haven't tried them, as they are DIFFERENT from one another and if one fails the other may work well. The third class of 'liniments' is the 'hot pepper' ones like Capscacin-P, which don't take effect as fast, but can work if the other two fail.

The Pain Wizard stuff has ingredients from all three classes.

If all the above fail, consider prescription ones like the compounded ones from Brown's compounding (Parker CO, unfortunately, for those who try to avoid doing business with Colorado); they and other pharmacies are using stuff like muscle relaxers and gabapentin and others we normally only give orally, and getting good results topically, with far less side-effects.

Anyway, I couldn't help but think the name "Pain Wizard" was sort of humorous - sounds like something that would need batteries and you'd have to be over 21 to buy...

[pwl44m]

A Friend gave Me a little jar of stuff that He said worked super fast on Him. It consists of Olive oil, Beeswax and some other Dopey smellin stuff. Didn't seem to do anything for Me.
Perry

[Thunder50]

I use some stuff called "sombra". I get it at the local medical supply store

[AJMD429]

A Friend gave Me a little jar of stuff that He said worked super fast on Him. It consists of Olive oil, Beeswax and some other Dopey smellin stuff. Didn't seem to do anything for Me.
Perry

Maybe you were supposed to smoke it, instead of rubbing it on the sore spots...

[Griff]

A hammer to your thumb will make back pain go away... too bad it's only temporary. But, if it works, use it.

[milton]

Any of you fellows use Australian Dream? I have bouts of arthritis some times and this stuff really helps! It too is a topical treatment.

[jnyork]

A Friend gave Me a little jar of stuff that He said worked super fast on Him. It consists of Olive oil, Beeswax and some other Dopey smellin stuff. Didn't seem to do anything for Me.
Perry

Did it come in the form of little tubular looking things, kinda pointed on the ends, maybe you aren't applying them properly?

[Ji in Hawaii]

I've been experimenting with using topical medicine with IPA as a solvent that would carry it into the dermis deeper......Might work, and might not

IPA sounds GREAT! My kind of pain relief.

[Blaine]

A Friend gave Me a little jar of stuff that He said worked super fast on Him. It consists of Olive oil, Beeswax and some other Dopey smellin stuff. Didn't seem to do anything for Me.
Perry

Did it come in the form of little tubular looking things, kinda pointed on the ends, maybe you aren't applying them properly?

Like stick deodorant..."Gently push up bottom..."

[Sixgun]

Don't need it Doc, I love pain But.......unfortunately I don't have any pain except on Thursday's, when I get paid, not seeing the 50 names of lazy people on my pay check stub who are benefiting from it.----------6

[harry]

A Friend gave Me a little jar of stuff that He said worked super fast on Him. It consists of Olive oil, Beeswax and some other Dopey smellin stuff. Didn't seem to do anything for Me.
Perry

That was bullet lube

[pwl44m]

If I have to smoke it then I guess I will just have to Man up and hurt.
Never was much on topical remedies although did I tell U about the time ? We were Frogging out of a boat and My Bil was point doing the catching (We didn't use Gigs). Anyhow He got run into the bank with a lot of brush and got His arm scratched up pretty bad. To say He was tipsy would be an understatement. When We got home We found that We didn't have any Merthiolate or alchohol to clean Him up. All We had was Absorbine Jr. Yep ! He cried.
Perry

[pokey]

with IPA as a solvent that would carry it into the dermis deeper......

try DMSO for that.

[mack]

Doc, does it really work? How about for arthritis in the spine, hips and hands?
I've been dipping into the horses bute to try and get some relief lately.

[AJMD429]

Doc, does it really work? How about for arthritis in the spine, hips and hands?
I've been dipping into the horses bute to try and get some relief lately.

Here's the five things I try on patients:

1. Icy Hot - salicylate-based
2. BioFreeze - menthol-based
3. Capsaicin-P - capsaicin-based
4. Pain Wizard - has all three of the above
5. Brown's #6 - http://www.brownscompounding.com/

Sometimes the use of iontophoresis or phonophoresis is helpful in addition to one of the above products, or other OTC or prescription products. THAT is a matter requiring the expertise of a good physical or occupational therapist or chiropractic (go see Old Savage and it would be worth it just to flirt with all the sexy office staff he surrounds himself with - that alone would make ME feel better).

Mostly what I see is people where surgery is not an option offering much help, who are failing OTC products and oral medications, so they just give up and go on life-long narcotics or suffer in pain and quit being active. MOST of them could restore to good activity levels with reduced pain IF they would get GOOD physical/occupational/chiropractic therapy, but the inflated prices, and "assembly-line" mentality of the major PT/OT providers defeats the process. At least you can access the chiropractics without having to go through a physician to 'order' the therapy.

Usually you have to go "out of network" to find the good providers, and they will charge fair amounts for their services, but you will pay the FULL cost instead of some token 'co-pay'. However if all you are willing to pay is a $10 co-pay, you should be aware that likely the insurance company is pretending to cover several hundred additional dollars of cost, but is likely paying such a paltry amount that the provider who is "in network" is cutting every corner possible.

You get what you PAY for, and most folks have such huge amounts of money sucked out of their paychecks by their employers ($1,100 per month individual and $1,700 for family, last I heard, BEFORE the token $100 or so per month to 'participate'), that they have little left to actually use for health care.

Too bad our health care system is so socialized and screwed up...

[mack]

Doc, thanks. I'm going to send for some Pain Wizard and give it a shot.

[Old Ironsights]

I makemy own capcasin compounds using Food Grade "Pure Cap" as sold on online Hot Sauce Vendors...

[Ysabel Kid]

I'm going to have to give that a whirl. At this point, I'm game for trying anything!

[Ji in Hawaii]

The stuff sounds REAL good, wish it wasn't so dang expensive.

[1894c]

I've been experimenting with using topical medicine with IPA as a solvent that would carry it into the dermis deeper......Might work, and might not :? :?

IPA sounds GREAT! My kind of pain relief. :lol:

is that to use internally or externally...just wondering...the next topic on this form will be "do I buy a walker with the seat or without"... :)

[JHarold]

Well, I waited a while before posting so I wasn't jumping the gun.

First a short history. My wife, (74) has MS which has caused weakness and muscle loss in her left leg. Knee joint full of arthritis. Last year she had a knee replacement in that leg. Having MS, she was unable to give 100% to the therapy. the pain she has now is muscle pain, as she has a bionic knee.

when I read this about the pain wizard, I thought we would give it a try. I ordered some in the roll on bottles and she started using it in the morning, and early evening. It is working so well that she no longer takes any pain relievers. such as alieve etc. she has used biofreeze with mixed results.
I have used it on a few muscle aches and think it works great as well.
anyway, I just want to say thanks Doc, from both us seniors.

who says we are too old to learn new tricks.

[olyinaz]

Doc, does it really work? How about for arthritis in the spine, hips and hands?
I've been dipping into the horses bute to try and get some relief lately.

Here's the five things I try on patients:

1. Icy Hot - salicylate-based
2. BioFreeze - menthol-based
3. Capsaicin-P - capsaicin-based
4. Pain Wizard - has all three of the above
5. Brown's #6 - http://www.brownscompounding.com/

Sometimes the use of iontophoresis or phonophoresis is helpful in addition to one of the above products, or other OTC or prescription products. THAT is a matter requiring the expertise of a good physical or occupational therapist or chiropractic (go see Old Savage and it would be worth it just to flirt with all the sexy office staff he surrounds himself with - that alone would make ME feel better).

Mostly what I see is people where surgery is not an option offering much help, who are failing OTC products and oral medications, so they just give up and go on life-long narcotics or suffer in pain and quit being active. MOST of them could restore to good activity levels with reduced pain IF they would get GOOD physical/occupational/chiropractic therapy...

Regarding liniments Doc, isn't this pretty much just absorbing the aspirin ("salicylate-based") through your skin vs. the stomach where it can aggravate? I mean, in order for it to work on your nervous system it's got to get in there...somehow...right? If it works it works, kind of like taking some medications via eye drops, but I wonder about the mechanism. Put bluntly, you could rub that stuff on yer ar$e and still "get relief" because the meds would find their way into your system! No?

I'll never forget the time a doc gave me a shot of some sort of medication, must have been very aromatic and had a high evaporative rate, but the instant he pushed down on the plunger stuck in my fourth point of contact (Google it...) I smelled the chemical he was injecting very strongly in my nose and breath. And I mean INSTANTLY. Really drove home the point about "you are what you eat", or more to point here, what you put in or ON your system.

[redmond]

with IPA as a solvent that would carry it into the dermis deeper......

try DMSO for that.

Please do not use DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) - it will certainly work very well as a carrier solvent to penetrate the dermis, but it is quite neuro toxic. DMSO was very popular for this kind of use in the 80s and 90s and we saw a bunch of poisonings in the hospital. Self-induced Parkinsonism and severe permanent migraines are things to avoid. Not so good for the liver, either.

[AJMD429]

Regarding liniments Doc, isn't this pretty much just absorbing the aspirin ("salicylate-based") through your skin vs. the stomach where it can aggravate? I mean, in order for it to work on your nervous system it's got to get in there...somehow...right? If it works it works, kind of like taking some medications via eye drops, but I wonder about the mechanism. Put bluntly, you could rub that stuff on yer ar$e and still "get relief" because the meds would find their way into your system! No?

Some topicals work almost entirely 'systemically' at a point distant from the application site (think the 'nitropaste' ointment some heart patients apply). Topical application in those cases is usually to bypass the phenomenon that before anything that gets past the tonsils gets to your foot or spine or eyeballs or wherever, it will first go to your liver, and perhaps be absorbed and modified before it gets to where it actually exerts its effect.

Other topicals work almost entirely 'locally' at the point of application - think zinc oxide as a simple protective coating for raw skin, or tincture of iodine as an antiseptic/antibacterial/cauterizing agent. Little if any is absorbed systemically, which hopefully limits toxicity and side-effects.

The reality is that lots of them work both ways. That can be good, bad, and sometimes surprising.
Women using estrogen cream vaginally DO get enough systemic absorption that they need to be aware of that if they are on an estrogen-deprivation regimen (i.e. after breast cancer), although the local effect may be so much stronger that they can use a low dose and get much lower blood levels than if they tried to get the same vaginal effect by using oral estrogen. Moral there - 'topical' doesn't mean you don't get systemic effects (good or bad). The 'taste' of DMSO and other topical substances is evidence of that.

On the other hand, some of the topical stuff now being used that I assumed must be 'voodoo' or placebo effect, or systemic effect, may be evidence that the 'experts were wrong' when we learned in pharmacology that things like gabapentin or ketamine or cyclobenzaprine 'only' worked in the central nervous system. It turns out that when you apply them locally you DO get some local relief of symptoms, but if say you apply them to the contralateral side (i.e. put the stuff on your left foot when your right foot is the painful one) it doesn't work - implying no significant 'systemic' effect. Blood levels also turn out to be so much lower than when you use the medications orally or by injection, that it is highly unlikely for any central nervous effect to be going on. We're still learning.

The 'salicylate' and 'ibuprofen' stuff primarily inhibit prostaglandin synthesis, and prostaglandins cause lots of unwanted irritation and inflammation (and many 'good' things as well). They are produced all over the body, so local effect makes sense as well as distant or systemic possibilities.

Please do not use DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) - it will certainly work very well as a carrier solvent to penetrate the dermis, but it is quite neuro toxic. DMSO was very popular for this kind of use in the 80s and 90s and we saw a bunch of poisonings in the hospital. Self-induced Parkinsonism and severe permanent migraines are things to avoid. Not so good for the liver, either.

I tend to agree with that. Many folks have gotten away with it and have claimed great and life-improving results, but it is risky (over 75% of Russian Roulette players experienced no ill effects whatsoever from the trigger pull, and claimed it relieved stress quite well). If our regulatory and legal environment weren't so screwed up, some company could develop, and prove the safety of, a specific formulation and strength and dosing regimen, and perhaps it could be far less risky. Lack of patentability makes it unlikely that anyone would want to risk spending hundreds of millions of dollars proving to the FDA that their version was safe and effective. (If our various government 'public health' divisions would quit spending money on some of the 'feel-good' stuff they do that the private sector can do better, perhaps they could objectively investigate such 'orphan' drugs then release them to the public domain...)

[Bill in Oregon]

Doc, thanks for the head's up. I'll order in some Pain Wizard pronto.

Update: Have an 8 oz. tube on the way. This stuff sure isn't cheap, but if it works, it will be worth it.