POLITICS - Warrantless searches for guns in D.C.

66GTO · Post by **66GTO** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:44 pm

This is just wrong. Never should be allowed happen.

http://www.redstate.com/blogs/paulseale ... s_for_guns

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02717.html

The correct answer to the question is "NO!"

MikeS. · Post by **MikeS.** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:06 pm

I'm in the DC tv viewing area and saw this there. What will these people do next to steal our rights from us?

They have already lost 2x in court and have a decent chance of losing before the SCOTUS. But still they insist on defying the constitutional rights of their citizens.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:25 pm

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:54 pm

Well, they'd only be warrantless searches if the home resident said "yes" to let them search.

They aren't allowed to search without consent.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:17 pm

This will all likely turn into a wide spread issue of contention.

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:32 pm

That's what kills me. They even say D.C has some of the most strict gun control laws around, but there gun crime is still high. Well, no kidding. The day these people finally figure out that criminals don't follow laws will be a good day. I would laugh in the face of any cop or mayor asking for consent to search my home. That mayor is setting his LEO's up for failure. Some paople just don't get it. There are enough laws. Stop acting like the United Nations and start enforcing them.

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:01 pm

This is similar to how the KGB in Russia operates. Kids will be encouraged to turn their own parents in for owning firearms via a hotline. Soon their school teachers will be educating them to do so, etc., etc....

Scary stuff....

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:55 am

Jarhead wrote:This is similar to how the KGB in Russia operates. Kids will be encouraged to turn their own parents in for owning firearms via a hotline. Soon their school teachers will be educating them to do so, etc., etc....

Scary stuff....

Thanks for that chill that just ran up my spine

One of the scariest short stories I've ever heard was one about after all guns
were confiscated a family had secreted away their rifles and ammo and were
waiting for a revolution cuz the country was upside down by this point.

He took his grandson for a walk and explained his legacy and trust to him.

I think it took place next to a stream, if anyone knows a link it would be
very much appreciated.

I lost so much good info when my last comp took a dive on me

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:04 am

Jeeps wrote:
Jarhead wrote:This is similar to how the KGB in Russia operates. Kids will be encouraged to turn their own parents in for owning firearms via a hotline. Soon their school teachers will be educating them to do so, etc., etc....

Scary stuff....
Thanks for that chill that just ran up my spine

One of the scariest short stories I've ever heard was one about after all guns
were confiscated a family had secreted away their rifles and ammo and were
waiting for a revolution cuz the country was upside down by this point.

He took his grandson for a walk and explained his legacy and trust to him.

I think it took place next to a stream, if anyone knows a link it would be
very much appreciated.

I lost so much good info when my last comp took a dive on me

I remember that Jeeps. Think of it every time I see my grandson.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:12 pm

Old Mel Gibson tried to live at peace and tried to get along in the days leading up to the Revolution. He hoped to keep his family safe, and raise his crops. Then---one of his son's was killed before his eyes in his own front yard. That sure did change his attitude toward the British forces in a hurry. Makes one wonder if a day is coming not too far off, when several million men say, "Enough of this stuff, I'm not going along with anymore of it". Way out here in the boon docks where I live, it's hard to imagine anyone coming to search my house, but just as hard to see it happening in Washington or other large cities. Privacy and freedom seem like something that "used to be".

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:47 pm

Hobie wrote:
Jeeps wrote:
Jarhead wrote:This is similar to how the KGB in Russia operates. Kids will be encouraged to turn their own parents in for owning firearms via a hotline. Soon their school teachers will be educating them to do so, etc., etc....

Scary stuff....
Thanks for that chill that just ran up my spine

One of the scariest short stories I've ever heard was one about after all guns
were confiscated a family had secreted away their rifles and ammo and were
waiting for a revolution cuz the country was upside down by this point.

He took his grandson for a walk and explained his legacy and trust to him.

I think it took place next to a stream, if anyone knows a link it would be
very much appreciated.

I lost so much good info when my last comp took a dive on me
I remember that Jeeps. Think of it every time I see my grandson.

Hey Hobie, was it the story that ended with the grandson calling the authorities
and saying "I took awhile but he finally told me where they are, come and
get them"?

It really hurt me cuz I wasn't expecting it.

I might have it on one of my discs but haven't run across it yet.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:21 pm

Jeep, Hobie, anyone else, if this story has a link or site that you eventually think of where it's at, please post it here, I'd like to see it too. Bruce

jfwlb · Post by **jfwlb** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:17 pm

I saved that story to my hard drive the last time I saw it posted.

I would post it here, but it's about seven pages long. If anybody wants it, I can email it, just pm me or reply to this post. Or if there's enough interest, I can post it here.

John

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:48 am

Hey jfwlb, if you can get the name of the story for us we could prolly google
it and download it for ourselves, it would be easier for you that way.

Thank you sir.

jfwlb · Post by **jfwlb** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:36 pm

No problem.

The title and author are: Sundown at Coffin Rock
by Raymond K. Paden

Hope that helps.

John

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:56 pm

http://www.totse.com/en/politics/right_ ... offin.html

here is a link to the story very chilling

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:59 pm

Jeeps wrote:
Hobie wrote:
Jeeps wrote:
Jarhead wrote:This is similar to how the KGB in Russia operates. Kids will be encouraged to turn their own parents in for owning firearms via a hotline. Soon their school teachers will be educating them to do so, etc., etc....

Scary stuff....
Thanks for that chill that just ran up my spine

One of the scariest short stories I've ever heard was one about after all guns
were confiscated a family had secreted away their rifles and ammo and were
waiting for a revolution cuz the country was upside down by this point.

He took his grandson for a walk and explained his legacy and trust to him.

I think it took place next to a stream, if anyone knows a link it would be
very much appreciated.

I lost so much good info when my last comp took a dive on me
I remember that Jeeps. Think of it every time I see my grandson.
Hey Hobie, was it the story that ended with the grandson calling the authorities
and saying "I took awhile but he finally told me where they are, come and
get them"?

It really hurt me cuz I wasn't expecting it.

I might have it on one of my discs but haven't run across it yet.

Yep, that's it. I'm thinking it was in a Gun Digest but... dang old age is sucking my memory dry...

Can't remember the title.

Slick · Post by **Slick** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:22 pm

So if a homeowner says "NO" to the police request to search, I wonder if they'll use that as a means to get a warrant to search on the basis of mere suspicion?

505stevec · Post by **505stevec** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:38 pm

They can do anything they want but when it is all said and done they need Probable Cause to search. Reasonable suspicion is not enough. So therefore even if 9 million pounds of meth and 400 guns are found it would probably be thrown out of court. In reality though if this happens to you get a receipt for all items taken and file with the court for the return of your property asap.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:47 pm

I don't work in Washington DC, but, most of the fourth amendment is ran the same across the nation. Police can ask all they want but they need consent to search, other than a search warrant or exigent circumstances.

Just say no.

Kismet · Post by **Kismet** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:55 pm

I think this tactic is both hilarious and scary. As others have pointed out - a consent search is completely legal. But there seem to be some unanswered questions from the article.

The article says, "If we come across illegal contraband, we will confiscate it," Lanier said. "But amnesty means amnesty. We're trying to get guns and drugs off the street."
...
Residents who agree to the searches will be asked to sign consent forms. If guns are found, they will be tested to determine whether they were used in crimes. If the results are positive, police will launch investigations, which could lead to charges."

So, is it amnesty or charges? I think it would be quite funny if some nasty criminals used the policy to get out of prosecution. "Here it is officer, the gun I used to shoot my drug dealer." Seems like that would be pretty silly of D.C. How is that going to help anything - they will just get more guns or drugs.

It is also hilarious to me that criminals are often so stupid. You would be amazed how many people carrying contraband offer to let the police search their car or person. So, if this tactic catches some stupid criminals, fine too.

It is scary, of course, if the police intimidate people into giving "consent." And, it is scary in general that many people don't care enough to know their rights. I believe that we all have an obligation to know our rights and to stick up for them. That means that when a cop says, "you mind if I look around/search/etc." you say, YES, I DO MIND. If you are not forced into giving "consent" and you get caught with things you shouldn't have, then I don't much care what happens to you.

MikeS. wrote:What will these people do next to steal our rights from us?

The basic problem is that this is not the government stealing anything, it is simply the people willing to give away their rights. At least put the blame where it belongs - on the stupid people.

Michael in NH

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:46 am

Look at the bright side, at least some percentage of those people are learning to say "no". In fact, given the low trust of a lot of people in DC and other big cities for the cops, the answer the cops get in a lot of cases is probably going to be "Go f*** yourself!"

Even ACLU is with us on this. Now that's something...

I had to laugh at the moaning on that redstate site. After years upon years of urging us to let the Bush administration assume police state powers (if I'm not mistaken), they now start to feel the pinch. "As ye sow, so shall ye reap!"

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:21 am

Don't forget that just opening the door is an invite to probable cause.

If you refuse entrance yet the LEO sees, smells, hears something or in the
case of DC imagines something your house will be ransacked without amnesty.

greasy dan · Post by **greasy dan** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:29 am

At the high school where I taught, they do drug searches using trained police dogs in the student parking lot. They never search the Teacher parking lot. It would be interesting what they find there. Once a few years ago, a former student of mine was called out of class because they wanted to search His car. He just bought the car, used, a day or two before. Apparently the dog â€œhitâ€

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:53 pm

greasy dan wrote: The Principal at the time called me on the carpet, suggesting that I inform the student, and anyone else for that matter, that if they Know there is nothing to hideâ€¦ they should consent to the search. Thus, saving time for the Police, school officials, and the studentâ€™s time away from class.

I sided with the student. He was exercising his Right to refuse a warrant-less search. The Principal was not happy with me for quite some time after that.

Good man Dan

I betcha the Principal was just furious that nothing was found after taking all
that time to find out.

Best thing to remember is that "warrants" are usually made specific for the
reason of protecting citizens.

Because that kid made them get a warrant (which was probably drug oriented)
he might have saved himself allot of grief if the used, recently new to him
car, had something like a knife hidden it it from the previous owner who had
forgotten about it. I think we know what happens to kids who bring weapons
on school property whether they know they have or not.

There is nothing wrong with expecting the police to follow the law.

Kismet · Post by **Kismet** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:47 pm

Jeeps wrote:Don't forget that just opening the door is an invite to probable cause.

If you refuse entrance yet the LEO sees, smells, hears something or in the
case of DC imagines something your house will be ransacked without amnesty.

Can you cite any example to support these statements? I'm always curious when people make extreme suggestions like this whether they have some actual example to point to or just paranoia. There are some bad cops out there, but the vast, vast majority I have dealt with have been professional and done their job well. To me that means, among other things, not "imagining" facts to support a warrant.

I guess what always confuses me is that generally speaking conservative folks want to be tough on crime. (They certainly complain a lot when liberals want to send them to rehab!) So suppose an officer does see or smell or hear something, is he supposed to ignore it. What exactly are the police supposed to do - wait until the criminals turn themselves in?

Michael in NH

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:38 am

Kismet wrote:
Jeeps wrote:Don't forget that just opening the door is an invite to probable cause.

If you refuse entrance yet the LEO sees, smells, hears something or in the
case of DC imagines something your house will be ransacked without amnesty.
Can you cite any example to support these statements? I'm always curious when people make extreme suggestions like this whether they have some actual example to point to or just paranoia. There are some bad cops out there, but the vast, vast majority I have dealt with have been professional and done their job well. To me that means, among other things, not "imagining" facts to support a warrant.

I guess what always confuses me is that generally speaking conservative folks want to be tough on crime. (They certainly complain a lot when liberals want to send them to rehab!) So suppose an officer does see or smell or hear something, is he supposed to ignore it. What exactly are the police supposed to do - wait until the criminals turn themselves in?

Michael in NH

You mean while he is going "door to door" asking to sweep apartment buildings?

They KNOW where the crack houses are, don't kid yourself my friend.

You've never heard of probable cause Kismet?

I don't care how many good guys there are out there, it's the BAD ones I'm
worried about.

If your not my friend, you don't come in my house without a warrant.

You may think the state can fix your problems but I would rather put my
trust in my inalienable rights along with friends and family.

Extreme suggestions? You gotta be kidding me......

Jeeps · Post by **Jeeps** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:56 am

I have LEO's that are friends, and yes, I bust their rocks about things like this.
Always asking that they do the right thing.

If there were trouble in my neighborhood I would love nothing more than to
see some of our boys in blue riding in to do their sworn duty.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story. ... e=3/5/2008

http://www.gainesnet.com/police.htm

http://www.reason.com/news/show/29673.html

http://www.topix.com/forum/milwaukee/TKLR26VLOKDL9RL08

http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2005/09/26

With power comes GREAT responsibility. Please never forget that.

LEO's are human and are subject to emotions and agendas handed to them
by their superiors, aka politicians with a point to prove.

Caco · Post by **Caco** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:35 am

Extremly upsrtting

Don't want to read the story either

Dave

Buckeye · Post by **Buckeye** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:04 pm

I am a simple man with simple beliefs,
I believe that every word in the Bible is true.
I believe in my family.
I believe in the protection of those two beliefs.
I believe that OUR COUNTRY..was founded on FREEDOM,
FREEDOM TO WORSHIP.
and the
RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
to protect our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.

If you try to take away my rights,then you are stepping on my beliefs.

and I belive that thay are enough GOD LOVING AMERICANS TO KNOW WHATS RIGHT AND WHATS WRONG ,AND TO KNOW WHEN ENOUGH IS A ENOUGH.

POLITICS - Warrantless searches for guns in D.C.

POLITICS - Warrantless searches for guns in D.C.

Mel Gibson's "The Patriot"

story about grandson