Are crossbows legal for deer in your state?

[375hh1973]

Legal here in Michigan. I have never ever had an interest in bows and arrows. Not my cup of tea. When they legalized XBows, I thought it looked interesting so I shot a few and got one. Now I hunt in October with my buddies. Shot a couple of does. What it did for me was get me out in the field a few more days a year with my friends. I would say that the effective range is very similiar to my friends compound bow.

[Lastmohecken]

It's all much a do about nothing. We have had a crossbow season here for over 20yrs, and even before that in my county and one other county next to us, it was legal to use a crossbow for the first month of bow season since I was little kid, and I am 55 yrs old now. I have killed deer with the crossbow, regular compound bow, and tradition recurve bow. Ironically the longest shot I ever bagged a deer at was with my recurve and it was only probaby 30yrds or so.

Most all of the deer I have killed with a bow of any kind have been within 10yds or less, but that's the way I plan it. I just use a regular peep sights on my crossbow, actually it's a Williams Peep sight for a rifle that I drilled and tapped and installed on my cross bow, because I like things simple, I don't have any sights at all on my recurve bow.

The one advantage the cross bow has is not having to draw the bow back in the presence of a deer, but heck, I have actually missed a deer with my cross bow, at 15yds, I thought it was farther and shot over it, and re-cocked it and later killed the same buck in about 5 minutes later. I could have done the same with my recurve.

I guess my real bitch is the inline muzzleloaders and the compound bows with all of the scopes, and super fast and light arrows, mechanical broadheads, and even electronic ignition on the ML's now days. Of course I use a Flint Lock.

Now if someone wants to roll it back to Recurves and longbows and flintlocks only, then that's fine, I don't care. But then again, I wish they would just make our ML season a singleshot rifle season, so I could just throw a 45/70 round in my Browning 78, be done with it, as I see little advantage to the singleshot rifle over the Thompson Center inline with a scope. And it wouldn't make much difference, because the guys with the compounds, and the crossbows, and the inlines usually get their deer, anyway if they hunt much and get a decent opportunity. Now if we could just eliminate the darned deer feeder baiting!

[765x53]

In Missouri they have always been legal during firearms season and for handicapped with a doctors certificate during bow season.

Now, they have changed ML season to "Other Methods", which includes crossbows.

[TedH]

In Missouri they have always been legal during firearms season and for handicapped with a doctors certificate during bow season.

Now, they have changed ML season to "Other Methods", which includes crossbows.

Thanks for that. I thought it changed when they implemented the "Other Methods", which also now includes handguns too.

[6pt-sika]

It's all much a do about nothing. We have had a crossbow season here for over 20yrs, and even before that in my county and one other county next to us, it was legal to use a crossbow for the first month of bow season since I was little kid, and I am 55 yrs old now. I have killed deer with the crossbow, regular compound bow, and tradition recurve bow. Ironically the longest shot I ever bagged a deer at was with my recurve and it was only probaby 30yrds or so.

Most all of the deer I have killed with a bow of any kind have been within 10yds or less, but that's the way I plan it. I just use a regular peep sights on my crossbow, actually it's a Williams Peep sight for a rifle that I drilled and tapped and installed on my cross bow, because I like things simple, I don't have any sights at all on my recurve bow.

The one advantage the cross bow has is not having to draw the bow back in the presence of a deer, but heck, I have actually missed a deer with my cross bow, at 15yds, I thought it was farther and shot over it, and re-cocked it and later killed the same buck in about 5 minutes later. I could have done the same with my recurve.

I guess my real bitch is the inline muzzleloaders and the compound bows with all of the scopes, and super fast and light arrows, mechanical broadheads, and even electronic ignition on the ML's now days. Of course I use a Flint Lock.

Now if someone wants to roll it back to Recurves and longbows and flintlocks only, then that's fine, I don't care. But then again, I wish they would just make our ML season a singleshot rifle season, so I could just throw a 45/70 round in my Browning 78, be done with it, as I see little advantage to the singleshot rifle over the Thompson Center inline with a scope. And it wouldn't make much difference, because the guys with the compounds, and the crossbows, and the inlines usually get their deer, anyway if they hunt much and get a decent opportunity. Now if we could just eliminate the darned deer feeder baiting!

I hunted the southeastern corner of your state in january and february of 2012 . And I gotta say I had a blast !

Now with that being said your outlook is like a good many others and I repeat "just because something is legal it doesn't mean you have to partake in it and as long as no one does it on your property forget about it" .

Quite frankly from what I saw in AR one can pretty much do what they want gun wise or archery wise and as long as they don't make a big deal out of it I doubt seriousely if anyone would care !

[madman4570]

If you want to bring your crossbow to Texas I will challenge you with a 2005 Martin Razor X @ 228 fps with 28.5" arrows and 100 grain tips. I won't bet on group size, my bet is that out to 50 yrds I can keep all my arrows in the kill zone right along with you and your crossbow using a rest.

Joe,
So in other words, you are saying your bow is NOT as accurate as a scoped crossbow with a rest???
(that is my point)and that alone.

How bout I fly out there and we shoot at 50yds at a 2" bull (arrows missing bull------------------zero count)
or my 22 year old daughter will shoot against you---------------------2" bull (or bust)
This from the last crossbow I shot----------------is a given.(all will be in that bull)----I will make that statement!
And the daughter-----never ever even shot that crossbow(but no matter)cause she shoots a gun(real good)

So, we will make the kill zone--------------------2"

I admit, I did get a little pi##ed when some members on here(will not man up)and admit that (for accuracy)
a quality scoped crossbow (with a rest) when all others things are considered equal (like just a novice shooter) will be more accurate than a quality compound.
My definition of best accuarcy between the two items to be compared might be (of the two items------one put all arrows in the small 2" bull and the loser hit the bull once and the others were a group size of 5" around the bull.

Those that tell me otherwise would be like me telling you all I shot a lion when really I shot a deer!
ps----right now I can't eat the popcorn so you can give me the pacifier(if yall can put it my mouth)

At the Club last night having some beer(light beer)and couple hot dogs(no bun) after shooting Skeet, I brought up this discussion we have going on here---
saying some of the members on here think a compond bow is as accurate at an extended distance as a scoped crossbow with a rest----most laughed so hard I thought they were going to wet themselves!

And my begining discussions on this topic I believe was about accuracy--------------

The problem is (if you can shoot a gun----you can shoot a crossbow)especially fitted with a good red dot.
Shooting a hand released bow(compound or not)----totally different.
Example---------------------my wife shot my BIL's (Horton)first time kneeling (and at 50yds put it in a 4" bull 3 out of 3 tries)
Like to see her do that with a bow----------------------------not taking into account being in a stand/bunch of clothes on in the cold trying to draw the bow
Being in a tree stand with a red dotted crossbow capable of dead accurate 75+ yd shots------------------------might as well just serve em a dead deer at the store

[hondo1892]

+1 to what 6pt said. My eighty year old Winchester 94 can't compete with a new magnum bolt on paper. But where I hunt it doesn't matter because your shots are limited to about seventy yards because of vegatation. So why care if someone has a bolt or crossbow.

[madman4570]

Guys-------Listen------------agreed we dont want to get carried away getting all googly gah over this stuff.

Let me try it this way---------------------------

The trajectory of the arrow in flight(when some of you guys say)----that arrows flight path isn't any better with a crossbow.
(I know that)but that don't matter.

Why????

Because what I am saying is we go to a range--------- we both sight in our (bow and crossbow)in to hit point of aim at 40yds.
We place other targets at 20yds/30yds/50yds

We both shoot our bow/crossbow
We take note of our hold over/hold under for each given distance.-----(heck,we even log it down)

Now-----------------------with us each knowing our own given requirements (we need)to strike on target at each distance.
Myself having an accurate scope(combined with a nice steady rest/AR style platform/2lb crisp trigger pull)and that little note pad to refresh my memory of hold over/hold under-------------------------I can do it much more ACCURATELY looking through that nice big sharp clear sight picture with the scope and nothing is moving/wriggling being on a nice steady rest to make my sweet 2lb trigger squeeze.

Example------20yds(yep,I need to hold 8" low)or 60yds(yep,I need to hold 12" high)etc
If you think you can do that as well with your naked eye(standing up/using either a rope or mech release)using a sight pin-----
God Bless ya------------------cause you are a better man than me.
That is all I am saying----------------------------------total/sum/end!

[hondo1892]

Let me put it this way a bolt action with a scope on it is much more accurate than my Winchester 94 with a tang sight by pure desighn. It will shoot much more accuratly than my 94 ever will, but I don't belly ache or complain about other guys using them. I hunt for enjoyment and use what I want to use and let other folks do the same. Live and let live and quite trying to force your will and opinions on other people. That what the gun hater's wre doing all the time. Do we really need to do it too.

[cshold]

Well said & good point hondo.

[86er]

Well, the original post alleged in part and substance that a crossbow was more deadly, in other words that more deer would be taken and at longer ranges. Since when is the "kill zone" 2-inches? In comparison, my open sighted 100 yr old carbine with open sights can keep bullets within a 5-inch circle at 100 yards. My modern rifle with scope can keep the same bullets in 1-inch at the same range. If a deer is in front of either of them - dead deer. These rifles are the same caliber. The effectiveness of the bullet and the group size opens up - or loses effectiveness respectively as range increases. There is a point where either one of them would be a hope and prayer to make the shot. Why does this not matter to the majority of rifle hunters? Because they are going to be within range of the deer when using either rifle. The odd opportunity of perfect conditions for a longer shot will eventually be in favor of the scoped rifle. However, how many times is that going to happen? I am confident the answer is "very few". The reason is because the hunters are going to use their favorite technique so they are not gaining any distance. They are going to hunt in their favorite areas so the terrain will be the same limiting factor. The deer havent changed so they are going to avoid scent, noise, movement, odd shapes and frequently utilized areas. The same exact factors apply to bows. So, in summary based on all factors, the crossbow does not provide a significant advantage nor result in a significantly increased harvest of deer.

[1894]

Well said & good point hondo.

+ 1 .

Madman , you must be speaking of another state than NY ????
As far as crossbow hunting , here in New York State we've had them legal only for those disabled enough to require a " blow tube ? " ( like a trigger powered by the shooters breath ) .
We tried crossbows for the general population for a couple of years. They were ONLY ALLOWED DURING A FIREARM SEASON AND ONLY IN AREAS LEGAL FOR FIREARMS . Firearm season = shotgun , rifle , muzzle loader.
They were NEVER allowed ( by the general population ) anywhere during any archery only season or in any area that is designated archery only.
All pointless now because the crossbow bill expired at new years 2013.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/35010.html

[madman4570]

Well said & good point hondo.

+ 1 .

Madman , you must be speaking of another state than NY ????
As far as crossbow hunting , here in New York State we've had them legal only for those disabled enough to require a " blow tube ? " ( like a trigger powered by the shooters breath ) .
We tried crossbows for the general population for a couple of years. They were ONLY ALLOWED DURING A FIREARM SEASON AND ONLY IN AREAS LEGAL FOR FIREARMS . Firearm season = shotgun , rifle , muzzle loader.
They were NEVER allowed ( by the general population ) anywhere during any archery only season or in any area that is designated archery only.
All pointless now because the crossbow bill expired at new years 2013.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/35010.html

ya, I know it expires this year and in NYS (they regulated it to regular season) ----Pa is different.
The Certification of Qualification to let NY hunters use it-------guy down the road has a weight restriction(believe its ankle related)and he had one??????????/

I think you are going to see that law change where they will be legalizing crossbows again like Pa in the future.

[madman4570]

Let me put it this way a bolt action with a scope on it is much more accurate than my Winchester 94 with a tang sight by pure desighn. It will shoot much more accuratly than my 94 ever will, but I don't belly ache or complain about other guys using them. I hunt for enjoyment and use what I want to use and let other folks do the same. Live and let live and quite trying to force your will and opinions on other people. That what the gun hater's wre doing all the time. Do we really need to do it too.

Not forcing anyone-----------its just (no one)will hunt my place with one.
I don't need to hunt anywhere else----------------my own place----I control who does what!

[harry]

I don't understand why madman wants to compete against a compound yet put all the advantage to the crossbow. If you can't shoot without a rest you got no bolt in the contest.

[Bill in Oregon]

Well this certainly proved to be a lively topic. I started it because Oregon is the only state in the Union that forbids use of crossbows for big game under any circumstances. The ODFW is considering allowing them for disabled folks in 2014, and the archers are all up in arms ...

[madman4570]

Well, the original post alleged in part and substance that a crossbow was more deadly, in other words that more deer would be taken and at longer ranges. Since when is the "kill zone" 2-inches? In comparison, my open sighted 100 yr old carbine with open sights can keep bullets within a 5-inch circle at 100 yards.

Any weapon(that is more accurate)is more deadly-----------------"in certain situations"
Would you agree that (if you wanted to)a weapon that shoots an arrow more than twice as accurate than the other weapon as the distance (one wants to take the shot)get further out------that accuracy enhancement becomes exponentially greater.
Such as myself looking out over my wooded bank right now and on the grass field below 80 yards away I want to shoot that rabbit would you not say then a scoped rested crossbow is not "more deadly"

For a 125lb deer they say (the kill zone is aprox 10" in dia)
So by your estimation would you say your carbine is the same as a muzzle loader with a 8" (grouping @ 100yds)when you are shooting 130yds?

Guess you guys don't do much Match Shooting ???
On offhand shooting (our sniper qualification)requires 10 shots fired single feed.(within 10 mins)and all 10 are to be within a 6" group.
Let me rephrase that------------------------a 6" BULL------outside it-------------------zero!
This is actually tighter than normal standards but that is what our Club designates(at our shoots)
And you should see how many get put in their place of being a (good shot)including ones that we hear supposedly are GOOD------------ie, some that are Militay/Police/etc.

Hitting the 6" circle is what we call a (the kill shot)
In order to (even with the best talents of a shooting individual )that gun he is shooting(better be able able to shoot on the bench 1" groups) a gun that groups on a bench(and our bench/table are 1400lb concrete slabs(put in by myself/brother)that only groups 3"
wanna see ya hit 10 kill shots with 10 bullets.
The gun that is more accurate-----IS more deadly------sometimes----like shooting a deer at 75yds with a crossbow that can hold 4" groups and your bow holds 11" ones ?????

[1894]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/35010.html

ya, I know it expires this year and in NYS (they regulated it to regular season) ----Pa is different.
The Certification of Qualification to let NY hunters use it-------guy down the road has a weight restriction(believe its ankle related)and he had one??????????/

I think you are going to see that law change where they will be legalizing crossbows again like Pa in the future.[/quote]


Here's the current nys regulations for disabled hunters :

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/30419.html

[madman4570]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/35010.html

ya, I know it expires this year and in NYS (they regulated it to regular season) ----Pa is different.
The Certification of Qualification to let NY hunters use it-------guy down the road has a weight restriction(believe its ankle related)and he had one??????????/

I think you are going to see that law change where they will be legalizing crossbows again like Pa in the future.

Here's the current nys regulations for disabled hunters :

http://www.dec.ny.gov/permits/30419.html[/quote]


Yep,
This dude in question had I think ankle surgery(was using a wheel chair)and got good ol Doc to sign whatever!

[madman4570]

Guys-----on this we are beating a dead horse.
When I speak of what's more deadly----------like anything else I mean (to the general/normal hunting public)
what is easier to shoot more accurately/hit things and thus in that concept be more deadly.
Don't mean Robin Hood/Annie Oakley/whoever.
If those of you think you do not have an accuracy advantage with a gun type struture platform/2lb trigger/seated position with a rest/ and even a tad faster(unless you guys shoot 375fps)and can hold it at (what poundage)??? then I give up!

If you don't consider a gun/bow/slingshot that is more accurate---------a more deadly weapon--------I give up!

I would worry hunting with someone that don't--------------but that is just my opinion!

Good luck on this one!

ps----hate to bust some buns-----------but Honest to God----------Most Hunters-------------------shooting small targets at Matches-----don't do too good-------------------compared to someone schooled!
That is true of what we have found--------to be considered a (Good Shot)on a CMP 100yd M1 shoot-----you best be shooting at least a score of 425--------------most Hunters------------------------325-350(very so-so)
Not saying some match shooters are not good hunters other way around------but just keeping it real.
Think I am bull ##itting you ???------------------go sign up----------------and see!
Can't fake that!

JMHO

[86er]

So when are you coming by...?

[madman4570]

I got a range----------------------you can come up!

What you want to shoot off on!
Be warned if its lifting weights/Martial arts/shooting offhand(actually any type Match rifle)best be packing a lunch!
How bout arm wrestling!?????? (any wrestling)
Us Pa Plow Boys------------------rock!

ya know------maybe even guitar(not singing)
Throwing rocks-----you best stay home too------and I can spit real far!

[Sigmar]

bet the same arguments were made when the compound came out

[harry]

I got a range----------------------you can come up!

What you want to shoot off on!
Be warned if its lifting weights/Martial arts/shooting offhand(actually any type Match rifle)best be packing a lunch!
How bout arm wrestling!?????? (any wrestling)
Us Pa Plow Boys------------------rock!

ya know------maybe even guitar(not singing)
Throwing rocks-----you best stay home too------and I can spit real far!

I guess you will be posting pictures of your super hero outfit in your next post

[3leggedturtle]

UH Harry, I saw a sight yesterday I can't UNSEE. I witnessed a rather large lady riding a Segway on the sidewalk in a full "Spiderman" costume right own to the mask, She had blond pony tail coming out of it. I had only been a few minutes faster I could have missed it.

[Modoc ED]

bet the same arguments were made when the compound came out

Yes, they were.

[Mescalero]

3leg,
thats a nasty visual.

[Modoc ED]

3leg,
thats a nasty visual.

Don't forget Mexcalero, if you want a nasty visual, I can give you one.

[6pt-sika]

bet the same arguments were made when the compound came out

It's a known FACT anytime something is brought into the mainstream so to speak or modernized . Someone that uses something maybe not as state of the art is going to get their a...s...s up on their shoulders and whine or complain !

Point in fact ,

Compound bows when they hit the market .

Inline muzzleloaders .

Scopes on rifles , ML's or shotguns .

Rifled barreled slug guns .

Treestands .

Baiting .

Deer hounds .

Attractant scents .

Scent proof clothing .

Everyone needs to stop COMPLAINING about what someone else does thats PERFECTLY LEGAL and unite !

Everytime you get in a p...i...s...s...i...n...g match over stuff like this it plays into the anti's hands as we are dividing ourselves !

The original topic question about what states crossbows are legal in I think to be a valid question . This other B...u...l...l...s...h...i...t about who personally can do what with whatever leads to nothing but arguments and stupid remarks !

[cshold]

AMEN 6pt.

[t.r.]

Yes for Pennsylvania & Maryland.

TR

[6pt-sika]

AMEN 6pt.

Maybe I oughtta get a colar and become a man of the cloth

NOT

[madman4570]

Guys as long as it isn't on my place----------------------------whatever floats your boat!

Joe knows I respect him-----but on rare occasions his opinion might be kludged(rarely)

Maybe he can out shoot me ??------maybe I can out shoot him ??

Also we each probably have our strong points!

Also maybe I equate too much on comp shooting????
But being a Metrologist----guess I like (exact defined measurements)probably why I like weight lifting so much.
Its easy to compare what is what??????? No excuses!
I just use that 100yd M1 CMP shoot as a good rule of thumb because it basically covers the basics pretty well.
I do know we have had gentlemen from both Army/Marines that were with some type sniper related division and also some guys that were assigned to LEO SWAT type units-------and they are (lucky)to hit 425

I understand-----this is not under combat conditions---which can greatly effect things etc.
But----basically this shoot gives one a good idea how one shoots.

Anything over 470-------------------------------you are truly-------------------------deadly!
All I can say is try it.
When I get Joe up here----------------------------we will test him????
Can I cycle a Win 94 7 times @ 2 seconds and hit some small rolling item--------heck no!
What would I do if charged at 10ft by a buff--------------------????????????(have not been tested)
But for basic shooting at something(a target)@ 100 or 200yds with an accurate open sighted rifle (especially a M1/M1A/AR15-----I will be so bold to say(I am pretty darn good)
Least from everything I see!
What do they say---------------If you can do it------------------it aint bragging!

Anyhow----------------------shoot any bow that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy!

[rogn]

There's little need to to read the entire thread. If you shoot a compound bow, you have given up all right to protest. Little change will be seen With the adoption of the crossbow.

[Streetstar]

I got a range----------------------you can come up!

What you want to shoot off on!
Be warned if its lifting weights/Martial arts/shooting offhand(actually any type Match rifle)best be packing a lunch!
How bout arm wrestling!?????? (any wrestling)
Us Pa Plow Boys------------------rock!

ya know------maybe even guitar(not singing)
Throwing rocks-----you best stay home too------and I can spit real far!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... _fRWDaipJ4

Madman, your post above reminded me of this movie quote (no malice intended, I know your a renaissance man of sorts )

[madman4570]

I got a range----------------------you can come up!

What you want to shoot off on!
Be warned if its lifting weights/Martial arts/shooting offhand(actually any type Match rifle)best be packing a lunch!
How bout arm wrestling!?????? (any wrestling)
Us Pa Plow Boys------------------rock!

ya know------maybe even guitar(not singing)
Throwing rocks-----you best stay home too------and I can spit real far!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... _fRWDaipJ4

Madman, your post above reminded me of this movie quote (no malice intended, I know your a renaissance man of sorts )

he got game!

Up here when we get into the shine-----------------------------we play the game-----(Who gets throwed in the creek first)
Most of my pals play (finger wrestling too,they got bowed fingers from em being broke a lot)but that game I won't play cause of my guitar playing.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

AMEN 6pt.

Maybe I oughtta get a colar and become a man of the cloth

NOT

Maybe not that far.

I do agree with you. If we continue bickering, with this division amongst our ranks the anti's will use it against us and have us all hunting with rocks again.

BTW, in my opinion rocks were the first assault weapons.

[cshold]

Here's the inside scoop from someone inside the PA. Game Commission.
This average hasn't changed in years. (Even with the advent of inline's & crossbows)
Out of every 10 deer killed during the PA. hunting season 7 deer are taken with
Rifles / slug guns. The remaining 3 are taken with bow or muzzle loader.

[madman4570]

Here's the inside scoop from someone inside the PA. Game Commission.
This average hasn't changed in years. (Even with the advent of inline's & crossbows)
Out of every 10 deer killed during the PA. hunting season 7 deer are taken with
Rifles / slug guns. The remaining 3 are taken with bow or muzzle loader.

Givin the fact that it has only been a few years that (all hunters,no disabled permit required)has been in place that assumption of what the actual impact will be with (scoped crossbows)now coming into light with the general population of hunters is ???????????

I have a relative that is a Pa Game Warden as well as another one that is a very good friend.(shoot with at Gun Club)
My take from discussions with them is (this crossbow thing is taking off)and many are the younger hunters with a large continued expected increase also of female hunters that prior to using a scoped crossbow(really was not to keen hunting with a regular bow)

Like I said prior----------------------------from many I have talked to,this younger generation(and especially the girls)the main reason they do not like to hunt is (the cold)same with many of your older hunters(60+).though they could use a muzzle loader(early season)crossbows seem to just have become the new in thing?????????
Least in Bradford County Pa------------big difference sitting out all day------like Sept.29 vs Thansgiving time frame.
I suspect that 7/3 ratio within the next decade will become more of a 5/5 ratio
Time will tell!

[cshold]

Time will tell is right.
Many changes have indeed taken place over the past number years.
Crossbows is just one of many. Examples: An early senior citizen rifle season,
an early junior rifle season, an early muzzle loader (in-line) season and
children as young as what 8 or 9 years old can now hunt under
adult supervision.

[madman4570]

Time will tell is right.
Many changes have indeed taken place over the past number years.
Crossbows is just one of many. Examples: An early senior citizen rifle season,
an early junior rifle season, an early muzzle loader (in-line) season and
children as young as what 8 or 9 years old can now hunt under
adult supervision.

Yep, you are right!

Really, I probably am not the right person on this subject to take much from anyhow.
Most you guys on here know from some of my previous posts----I have this thing(its just me)with the hunting deal.
Not saying that makes it right----its just my thinking-----of what (my hunting views---for me)

Don't like tree stands(feel its cheating)-----I know/I know-----just me(guess I ain't knocking others,or shouldn't be)
Guess if ya ain't on the ground behind some big tree using either a gun or a regular bow/-----its cheating-----ya, I know(you ain't got to say it)
Don't like baiting/don't like decoy's/heck I don't even like drives-------ya, I know
I only ever shot one deer(first deer I ever shot)-------------from a tree stand-----(on Cahill Mnt,Overton,Pa)
Got in the stand at dark,had a M1 garand (it was plugged)at first light a 10pt buck walked up 20yds away from stand and just stood there.I wacked it. After all was said and done---------I felt quilty. I felt that I disrespected the animal(I was 12 years old)
I never hunted in a stand(ever again)
Up here in NY/Pa it is different than Texas(we have large forest/mountains)when hunting in the woods(big woods)the shots you have are typically from 20-50yds----------------these deer are smart,they know within(probably actually before)that first gunshot goes off, first day of gun season. Though it is harder hunting a deer with a bow than with an accurate gun------the first day/week etc. of archery season-----the deer are totally different--------just go out in the Fall(Fall Turkey season)and see-------the deer are totally different.
I could have a stand/get a scoped crossbow/and about any time I want----during archery season in Pa---wack a buck.
But I have to live with myself(and how I feel about taking the animal)

Several years ago----in this area that is "deer heaven" I hunted for 3 years this special buck-----He was at least a 180 score buck.
Just absolutely stunning. He lived/lives???? in this very dense area with some "natural" tiny crab apple trees (like 2 or 3)mixed in tight with these extremely dense thorn bushes.
Extremely hard cover area,to get a shot deer needs to come (out of there)I have actually seen him crawl in opposite direction from wherever I came from when after about a week my patience would tend to drift.
He would actually become aggressive(always prior to reg gun season)except once----when I went into his territory.
He had these paths(tunnels)threw this almost inpenetrable place.
He was smarter than me(on the ground,I could not get him)I only was interested in him.Let many others go.
Had other people tell me---(lets put on a drive,we will push/force him out)or put up a stand off a ways and wack him with a scoped rifle when he steps out on a log trail or at the creek)-----I said no------bottom line-----he was absolutely smarter than anything I have ever hunted(in the instints dept)
Guess I am just saying for me------------its simple-----------other than taking my Daughter out or her boy friend to get em going-----I am a "by my self" hunter----I hunt on the ground,with either a shotgun/rifle--------gave my Hoyt Super Slam Extreme yesterday to my nephew who shoots in college on a archery team.(I have no bow now,ain't getting one)

But that is just me------don't really give a hoot what someone does if it is legal----just not here!
To me---its not about the trophy at end---------its about the journey on the way!

But----don't care who says what------"no one" will ever convince me(a scoped gun type super accurate crossbow "with a rest")is NOT more accurate than a regular bow being shot offhand with pins.And also that accuracy does NOT equal in some degree to-----Deadliness.

[cshold]

Much respect to ya madman
I too gave up hunting from tree stands a number of years ago.
My reason was do to a very close call on unknown, unseen early
morning ice covered rungs encountered about halfway up a ladder stand.

[6pt-sika]

Don't like tree stands(feel its cheating)-----I know/I know-----just me(guess I ain't knocking others,or shouldn't be)
Guess if ya ain't on the ground behind some big tree using either a gun or a regular bow/-----its cheating-----ya, I know(you ain't got to say it)
Don't like baiting/don't like decoy's/heck I don't even like drives-------ya, I know
I only ever shot one deer(first deer I ever shot)-------------from a tree stand-----(on Cahill Mnt,Overton,Pa)
Got in the stand at dark,had a M1 garand (it was plugged)at first light a 10pt buck walked up 20yds away from stand and just stood there.I wacked it. After all was said and done---------I felt quilty. I felt that I disrespected the animal(I was 12 years old)
I never hunted in a stand(ever again)
Up here in NY/Pa it is different than Texas(we have large forest/mountains)when hunting in the woods(big woods)the shots you have are typically from 20-50yds----------------these deer are smart,they know within(probably actually before)that first gunshot goes off, first day of gun season.Guess I am just saying for me------------its simple-----------other than taking my Daughter out or her boy friend to get em going-----I am a "by my self" hunter----I hunt on the ground,with either a shotgun/rifle--------gave my Hoyt Super Slam Extreme yesterday to my nephew who shoots in college on a archery team.(I have no bow now,ain't getting one)

But that is just me------don't really give a hoot what someone does if it is legal----just not here!

Dude , I could not agree more about folks doing what they want on their own property if it's legal !

You just need to choose your words a little better . When you make a statement about something perfectly legal and say "it is cheating" how do you expect folks to react ! Something more like "I realize it's legal but I just don't care for it" is much better in my ALWAYS BIASED opinion !

Deer pushes ain't what folks think they are (very few BIG BUCKS are killed that way) and I'm not overly fond of it except on the last day for the social aspect of it . I however can live with deer drives , hound hunting for some reason I do not find that intresting . I realize a good many folks do it for the "hound music" that just ain't my thing . But then I'm not much on rabbit beagles anymore either .

In NE PA and I am sure to a degree in NY all you have to do on the first day is go about 20 feet up a tree and sit there . Sooner or later the Pumpkin Army's gonna push something by you . I have found on the places I hunted in PA the first couple days you can throw the normal sane stuff out the window if you hunt public ground . Up there it's almost a safety thing to be up a tree the first few days . As a genral rule 75% of the hunters I ran across up there had maybe killed a deer or two in their entire lives and most of these guys were 35 and up . BUT most of them were from Jersey or Philly and lets just say they weren't none to accustomed to the woods .

Now with all that being said you do your thing your way because I'm d...a...m...n...e...d sure gona do mine MY WAY whether other folks agree or not !

[madman4570]

ya---- 6pt-----maybe the word cheating is a little rough???????
We will just say then (taking unfair advantage of the poor animal)

Anyhow-----around these parts, most hunters either have their own/have relatives/or friends where they hunt.(regular public not allowed)
Except for the rare occasions the few leaser's that lease (seldom have the NJ/NY City bush shooters)shooting their sound shots.

Have heard of though on occasion, some city slicker driving through and stopping someone offering $$$$ for some dead deer???

Never have heard of a taker though---------------Thank God

[6pt-sika]

ya---- 6pt-----maybe the word cheating is a little rough???????
We will just say then (taking unfair advantage of the poor animal)

To be honest that doesn't come across any better the way I read it !

But I'll just keep on taking advantage of the poor unsuspecting things until I can't climb the tree's anylonger

[madman4570]

ya---- 6pt-----maybe the word cheating is a little rough???????
We will just say then (taking unfair advantage of the poor animal)

To be honest that doesn't come across any better the way I read it !

But I'll just keep on taking advantage of the poor unsuspecting things until I can't climb the tree's anylonger

Dude----------I'm busting ya!
Honestly 6pt though politically correct isn't my bag!
I usually say what I mean--------and just between you and me----I still consider it cheating (in my mind)
Is it legal--------------yes---------------does that matter to what I think-----really no!

But, how bout to make you feel better-----------------not very sportsman like.
Besides now that you are getting lean and mean-----suspect you will climbing that tree like a mad squirrel for years.
Gotta ease up bro and chill---------------------------like I said-----if it ain't at my place(don't really give a rats a##)
Now have to go do some yard work before the little cuttie gets home.
Just be happy and go do some shooting------------------I am in about 45 mins!

[6pt-sika]

Besides now that you are getting lean and mean-----suspect you will climbing that tree like a mad squirrel for years.

I suspect as much as I try to avoid it I'm gonna need to get my left shoulder worked on a bit . So that may or may not be the case .

[madman4570]

Besides now that you are getting lean and mean-----suspect you will climbing that tree like a mad squirrel for years.

I suspect as much as I try to avoid it I'm gonna need to get my left shoulder worked on a bit . So that may or may not be the case .

Good luck Bro------You come up here sometime and we will throw some lead!
Then--------you will see(Dang-----lar is a nice guy)

[BAGTIC]

Let's see now. Crossbows are just as effective as guns and if we permit crossbows to be used it might have an adverse impact on deer populations. If that it true perhaps we should also restict hunting with firearms as they are just as effective as crossbows and would have just as much impact. Actually more as more people will use guns.

There is not and never has been any logical reason to restict crossbows from hunting. It is all an example of unfounded bigotry. It got started when the large land owners in Europe/Britain, etc. wanted to control poaching. They had already made the switch to fireams and bows were already obsolete and required a lot of training and practice. Crossbows did not require as much expertise and were silent (undetectable). The result was that poachers resorted to snares and traps instead.

In this country the main reason for the increased interest in bows, blackpowder, and other primitive wepons was not a love of tradition. It was the opportunity to engage in extended season and bag limits. Tale away the special seasons and watch the impact on 'primitive weapons' hunting.

[6pt-sika]

Besides now that you are getting lean and mean-----suspect you will climbing that tree like a mad squirrel for years.

I suspect as much as I try to avoid it I'm gonna need to get my left shoulder worked on a bit . So that may or may not be the case .

Good luck Bro------You come up here sometime and we will throw some lead!
Then--------you will see(Dang-----lar is a nice guy)

Hopefully the next time I'm as far north as you're place I'll be on the way to Maine or Newfoundland to hunt !