I'm surprised nobody has just showed up at the plant...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:10 am

...to ask the Ammunition and Component Manufacturer(s) about their production, shipping, and so on.

Seems like someone from a widely-circulated gun magazine, or from the NRA, could get a brief face-to-face with someone who would 'clarify' the status and current production; the industry would stand to gain at least some positive media exposure within the shooting community.

My impression is that the industry is kind of like our gasoline industry, with production just about apace with demand, which is generally rather consistent and predictable, and with a significant amount of purchase by government for their military and 'strategic reserve' needs. I can see where increased demand would upset the cart, although most of us seem to be shooting LESS than usual, for various reasons; still there may be lots of folks who don't have a shelf full of ammo in the garage like most of us do, who are buying everything they see.

No doubt the authorities will soon decree that having more than 100 rounds of ammunition is illegal, because they will realize that these panics and shortages don't deplete the civilian stores as much as they thought (even though after we shoot all the 'bullets' in our 30 round magazines, we have to throw them away...

).

Anyway, I'm surprised there hasn't been more exploration of this in the 'gun literature'.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:15 am

Yes,
A good inside report would be most enlightening.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:19 pm

.22cal ammo on the shelves would be amazing... :)

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:27 pm

I would like to see the .22 LR thing explained. It just makes NO sense.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:07 pm

I've seen several such reports.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:48 pm

Hobie,
Are they logical? Do they make sense?
Without the sky is falling nonsense?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:50 pm

Mescalero wrote:Hobie,
Are they logical? Do they make sense?
Without the sky is falling nonsense?

Don't discourage people....I've recently invested in the Tin Foil market.....

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:56 pm

ok,
but I am tired of a new and even more fantastic conspiricy every other day.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:29 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Mescalero wrote:Hobie,
Are they logical? Do they make sense?
Without the sky is falling nonsense?
Don't discourage people....I've recently invested in the Tin Foil market.....

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:49 pm

Hobie wrote:I've seen several such reports.

If they are on-line please pass them along or show us some links...! It would be nice to get a handle on all this.

Like others have said, the 22 LR situation sure isn't "DHS purchases", so is it all just 'hoarding' (in a way that is GOOD, since "an armed society is a polite [stable] society")...?

The 'non-gun' people just don't understand the significance of all this - I explain it to them as what if all the office-supply stores were out of printer paper and number 2 pencils...? That would indicate something MAJOR wrong with the supply/demand balance. The 'gunnies' either have lots of personal inventory and aren't ready to start worrying until this becomes prolonged, or they think that "this is it" and any day now martial law will be declared and TEOTWAWNKI is upon us.

The rest of us wonder . . . what IS the truth. . . ???

2LT Van Cott · Post by **2LT Van Cott** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:54 pm

I've seen this in the major magazines like American Rifleman. Looking at 6-9 months to return to semi-normal IF buying frenzy levels off. Gracias Blaine, but i've got me issue tin-foil chappeau.

Steelbanger · Post by **Steelbanger** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:43 pm

The May issue of "The American Rifleman" has a bit of Mark Keefe's reasoning on this matter. He says it's a simple matter of supply and demand. He cites, for example, a friend that bought a case of 22 LR and called, all excited at his find. Mark interrupts the friend saying that he never buys more than a brick of 22 at one time. The reply went something like this, "Yes, but I bought all they had".

I was in a shop a few weeks back where the clerk was taping 5 boxes of pistol ammo together. I asked what if I want one box? He said we only sell them 5 boxes at a time. Glad I wasn't there for pistol ammo.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:46 pm

I've been listening to guntalk on the radio, or at least the podcasts. Tom Gresham claims that if people would just stop buying large supplies for back stock things would level off in short order. Add to that those that are buying it as an investment trying to make money off of it and it wouldn't take long for things to settle down.
I'm not saying I agree or know anything myself. That's just his statement.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:04 pm

2LT Van Cott wrote:I've seen this in the major magazines like American Rifleman. Looking at 6-9 months to return to semi-normal IF buying frenzy levels off. Gracias Blaine, but i've got me issue tin-foil chappeau.

If you're really a 2LT, you need a NCO to guide you and run point....

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:42 pm

BlaineG wrote:
2LT Van Cott wrote:I've seen this in the major magazines like American Rifleman. Looking at 6-9 months to return to semi-normal IF buying frenzy levels off. Gracias Blaine, but i've got me issue tin-foil chappeau.
If you're really a 2LT, you need a NCO to guide you and run point....

Heh heh

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:40 pm

Part of the problem is that people who previously never bought more than one brick of .22 or one box of hunting ammo a year, jumped on the band wagon and started buying all they could at any price....

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:19 am

What's to ask?
There is no conspiracy, and it's pointless to dog each ammomaker asking where their products are & what their production schedules are.

Those that I talked to at the SHOT Show in Vegas in Jan ALL said they're running at max capacity & many were pre-sold-out for the rest of the year.

It's not the government, it's not space aliens, it's just people buying it as soon as it comes out.
Demand outstrips supply.
That's all there is to it.

Denis

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:29 am

DPris wrote:What's to ask?
There is no conspiracy, and it's pointless to dog each ammomaker asking where their products are & what their production schedules are.

Those that I talked to at the SHOT Show in Vegas in Jan ALL said they're running at max capacity & many were pre-sold-out for the rest of the year.

It's not the government, it's not space aliens, it's just people buying it as soon as it comes out.
Demand outstrips supply.
That's all there is to it.
Denis

Nailed it!

The local Gander Mtn. gets their ammo deliveries Friday mornings. There will be 30-40 guys lined up at the door an hour before they
open to buy what ever they can get their hands on whether they need it or not. I stopped in this Saturday looking for some .410s that are usually in good supply. Nothing! They had plenty of 12 gage and .17 HMR a couple dozen boxes of rifle ammunition but that's it.
Crazy!

jb

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:35 am

There is no government conspiracy to control our ammo or reloading supplies.

Remember last summer I told you boys to stock up, even though shelves were full? There are marketing/industry people who follow the supply and demand thingy. I happen to know one of them.

We have created the shortages. My bud told me last night there is nothing "funny" going on. The ammo and gun companies will not build a new plant or add lines to satisfy a spike in buying.

Starting last week, buying is reversing, supplies are trickling in, and consumers are not panic buying. Relax, it will take 6 months to a year to normalcy to return.

We are a nation of Capitalists, where the dealers themselves were "panic buying". But they were not buying because of "panic", they were "capitalizing".

Just all the more reason to stay stocked up because when this stuff hits the fan next time, you will be able to sit back and watch the fun. I know I had a blast.

---------------Sixgun

pshort · Post by **pshort** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:56 am

Howdy,
Same here; I've been telling folks to stock up a bit here and there for the last couple of years. Until recently, for the last couple of years, everytime I go into my local ammo store I'd buy a box or two of something that I use and don't reload for.. No hoarding, just 1 box of something.. I'd say it was a good strategy.. I have plenty.. Same thing with primers, powder, bullets, etc.
Turns out these folks all want to get ammo from me, now.. I say no.. In an emergency, I'd give them what they need (free) but I don't sell any..
Of course at the going rates, I might trade a box of .22 for a steak dinner !!!

Paul

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:45 am

Was just browsing Armslist ammo this morning. Lots of brand new boxes of .22LR. Pretty obvious there are a lot of people scooping it up as soon as it hits the shelves, or before, just so they can resell it on the net. That will probably continue for a lot longer than necessary. I've sold some .22 for a profit (still half what everyone else was) but it was stuff I already had on hand. I'm not sure what to think about what these guys are doing, I have run into ammo at Walmart and left it for someone else who might need it, including .22. Cant help but wonder if one of those guys reselling it got it. But all is fair in love and war.

Dan 444 · Post by **Dan 444** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:40 am

DPris wrote:What's to ask?
There is no conspiracy, and it's pointless to dog each ammomaker asking where their products are & what their production schedules are.

Those that I talked to at the SHOT Show in Vegas in Jan ALL said they're running at max capacity & many were pre-sold-out for the rest of the year.

It's not the government, it's not space aliens, it's just people buying it as soon as it comes out.
Demand outstrips supply.
That's all there is to it.
Denis

Yep, that's it. People I work with that might only shoot once or twice a year and normally would only keep a couple of boxes in their closets, aggessively searched and bought every box of 9MM, .223 and 45ACP they could find.

Dan

Hayseed · Post by **Hayseed** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:03 am

Simple , "O" and crew have made people paranoid ! And it possibly wont end until he and his are replaced . He and his have made the statement that losing the first battle is not the end of the war on the second amendment . And he has his people engaging in a state by state battle right now . I dont see the ammo and components issue earing up any time soon !

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:13 pm

It won't be soon, but it's just a matter of riding it out.
Denis

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:30 pm

DPris wrote:It won't be soon, but it's just a matter of riding it out.
Denis

Yup - the free market will eventually level things back out; that is unless Bobo uses some sort of government force to destroy the free market.

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:36 pm

I think the stores should go to one box a day till the profiteers give up, obviously 3 boxes per visit isn't working to let everyone have a fair shot at ammo.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:42 pm

sore shoulder wrote:I think the stores should go to one box a day till the profiteers give up, obviously 3 boxes per visit isn't working to let everyone have a fair shot at ammo.

Controls are not cool....the free market system will adjust the supply/demand as soon as people get a sufficient personal supply, and the hoarders are stuck with 10 lifetimes of .22 that they can't get rid of.....

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:28 pm

Good idea, Blaine.

Nate Kiowa Jones · Post by **Nate Kiowa Jones** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:29 pm

sore shoulder wrote:I think the stores should go to one box a day till the profiteers give up, obviously 3 boxes per visit isn't working to let everyone have a fair shot at ammo.

I don't mind you thinking that. I just hope you don't look for the government to step in and regulate the stores to do it.

I posted this here; Interesting article on the ammo shortage

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:The main thing I got from the articles is the stores are still getting the same amount of ammo they were getting before. That reinforces my belief that the supply side is still producing at normal levels. But the demand side has gone up because of all the politics.
Some are convinced there's some sort of Government conspiracy. I just don't see it. We dealt with the same sort of shortages before. All though it seem more sever I just think it is because more people now know that these laws can pass I.E. the 94 AWB.
The ammo makers know this is politically driven and will eventually subside so they aren't going to add more equipment.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:33 pm

Oops sorry. sore shoulder.

Udy · Post by **Udy** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:06 pm

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:
sore shoulder wrote:I think the stores should go to one box a day till the profiteers give up, obviously 3 boxes per visit isn't working to let everyone have a fair shot at ammo.
I don't mind you thinking that. I just hope you don't look for the government to step in and regulate the stores to do it.

I posted this here; Interesting article on the ammo shortage
Nate Kiowa Jones wrote:The main thing I got from the articles is the stores are still getting the same amount of ammo they were getting before. That reinforces my belief that the supply side is still producing at normal levels. But the demand side has gone up because of all the politics.
Some are convinced there's some sort of Government conspiracy. I just don't see it. We dealt with the same sort of shortages before. All though it seem more sever I just think it is because more people now know that these laws can pass I.E. the 94 AWB.
The ammo makers know this is politically driven and will eventually subside so they aren't going to add more equipment.

I won't pretend to know where the ammo is going. But I can not believe stores are getting the same about in there shipments as before. Stores around here use to have pallets of ammo on the floor. Now there would be no where to put them cause they filled it in with coats and hats and camping gear. If they are getting any ammo at all I never have seen it yet, but I would think they would still have to have somewhere to put it if they had it. Even if someone purchased the whole mess at once, unless they just forklift it out of the delivery truck into someones pickup.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:24 pm

Two kinds here.....Uppity that bought everything they need last year, and those that have been looking high and low, and knows dang well that something's wrong. I've got all I need, but, not all I want

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:42 pm

Several years ago Remington`s rep said it cost 100K just to retool a line to produce a new caliber of ammo. That is the cost to re-tool an existing line. To make/buy loading machines and required tooling to start up a new line to make just one caliber for a suspected short period of time before it would set idle (due to the pipeline being full of product)would not be cost effective.
If everyone would quit panic hording this thing will settle down same as it has in the past.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:51 pm

I am starting to see LOTS of .22 LR on the shelf in the LGS near me. The good ones are limiting purchases and keeping prices at approx. $8 per 100. The rest have a ton on the shelf, you can buy as many as you think you can afford and it sells for $20 per 100 rnds. I still havent figured out what is going on with the local Walmart, it is the only place I never see .22LR come in at walmart at all. Thankfully, I have my out of the way gunshops that I patronize that are doing a legitimate business and not gouging the market.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:07 pm

Chuck 100 yd wrote:To make/buy loading machines and required tooling to start up a new line to make just one caliber for a suspected short period of time before it would set idle (due to the pipeline being full of product)would not be cost effective.

Even if they did, the anti-free-market crowd would cry "price gouging". . .

sore shoulder · Post by **sore shoulder** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:05 pm

Nate, I definitely would be completely against the government regulating ammo, I just think the stores should do it temporarily to give everyone a fair chance at the ammo.

Blaine, it may not be cool, but what some of these guys are doing isn't cool either. I have nothing against buying low and selling high, but some of these guys are taking it too far. Some people can't make it to the store at 3am when the truck gets unloaded, so because they have to work etc they can't take their kids out shooting on the weekend.

Molasses · Post by **Molasses** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:21 pm

Sixgun wrote:There is no government conspiracy to control our ammo or reloading supplies.

Remember last summer I told you boys to stock up, even though shelves were full? There are marketing/industry people who follow the supply and demand thingy. I happen to know one of them.

We have created the shortages. My bud told me last night there is nothing "funny" going on. The ammo and gun companies will not build a new plant or add lines to satisfy a spike in buying.

Starting last week, buying is reversing, supplies are trickling in, and consumers are not panic buying. Relax, it will take 6 months to a year to normalcy to return.

We are a nation of Capitalists, where the dealers themselves were "panic buying". But they were not buying because of "panic", they were "capitalizing".

Just all the more reason to stay stocked up because when this stuff hits the fan next time, you will be able to sit back and watch the fun. I know I had a blast. ---------------Sixgun

THIS!
As some of the folks on here know, I work at one of the ammo companies. I'm just one of the folks running machinery, not a policymaker. I've pretty much kept out of these threads on the several shooting forums I frequent, not only because my employer frowns on employees talking out of school, but because this has been such a touchy subject for some that seem completely convinced they're getting shafted by somebody.

Where I work, we've been on 12-hour shifts, the entire place running 24/7 for several years. You can't squeeze water from a stone and there just wasn't the ability to make many times the normal production capacity on short notice anywhere within the industry.

It's pure and simple overbuying for what the industry can provide.

Once the demand settles down again and things are back to normal, then's the time to (as they say on another forum I frequent) "buy it cheap and stack it deep".

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:55 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Nate, I definitely would be completely against the government regulating ammo, I just think the stores should do it temporarily to give everyone a fair chance at the ammo.

Sorry - I just don't agree with you. If a store's policy has ALWAYS been to limit sales of ammo to individuals that's one thing but it's another matter to regulate ammo sales just because of what appears to be consumer demand caused shortages. No difference from the government doing it.

Blaine, it may not be cool, but what some of these guys are doing isn't cool either. I have nothing against buying low and selling high, but some of these guys are taking it too far. Some people can't make it to the store at 3am when the truck gets unloaded, so because they have to work etc they can't take their kids out shooting on the weekend.

Oh Boo-Hoo; Cry Me a River; whatever. There's ammo to be found. People just have to get out from under their keyboards and actually start making the rounds of places that sell ammo. That goes for the internet too. I've been on-line at a dealer in the morning with no .22LR available, checked again in the afternoon and they had it available for about a two-hour long window. If someone wants to take their kid out shooting on the weekend then they need to invest some shoe-leather or keyboard clicking during the week.

My remarks above may seem negative but I haven't meant them to be that way. Things will eventually or at least should smooth out. Until then, we just have to find our ammo where we can and when we can and be able to buy whatever amount we want.

My .02¢

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:58 pm

sore shoulder wrote:Nate, I definitely would be completely against the government regulating ammo, I just think the stores should do it temporarily to give everyone a fair chance at the ammo.

Blaine, it may not be cool, but what some of these guys are doing isn't cool either. I have nothing against buying low and selling high, but some of these guys are taking it too far. Some people can't make it to the store at 3am when the truck gets unloaded, so because they have to work etc they can't take their kids out shooting on the weekend.

A....I'm not convinced that it's purely a normal supply shortage...

B...It wouldn't go for 100-125 a brick if people were not willing to pay for it...

C...My personal values are that I have not made a profit on my generous supply of .22.....I have, however, put a couple 525 packs on loan to a buddy, and 20 round of #4 buck.....to get back when it becomes available....

I'm extremely hard up for 230 fmj bullets, and powder for them....My solution is not to curse the people that have bought up .45acp, but, to hang onto the 1500 or so rounds that I have until stuff becomes available......

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:15 am

I don't know Blaine but I think the "factory loaded ammunition" shortage may be a normal shortage caused by customer demand BUT I'm not convinced that the shortage of primers and especially powder is caused by customer demand.

It's just something we will have to ride out. I've always stocked up and will continue to do so. I never have seen the sense of waiting until you're out of ammo or nearly so before buying more.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:40 am

This ain't the first rodeo... same go 'round back in '08/'09 when the current inhabitant of the Whitehouse first got installed. I figured it would happen and managed to put in an order for powder and primers to be waiting for me when I got up there so as to load up the empties I'd left from my last trip north. In '09 we put 10,000 miles on in about 10 weeks traveling over the western US of A. I found one brick of Champion brand (rebranded Aguila) 22 LR and purchased it. Hit ever Walmart along the way and every gunshop I could and only found one place with any kind of stock in bulk pack ammo. Federal 550 packs were selling for $25 and I refused to buy since it was double what I'd paid three years prior. Fast forward to fall '12 and we were once more traveling the western US of A. 17,000 miles through 18 states over four months, everywhere we went we found well stocked shelves of ammo. I picked up a brick of 22 LR and a brick of small rifle primers to eke out what I'd cached years before. Found more 22 in the cache than I recalled and shot up about a brick or so of loose bulk pack, didn't get much range time during the trip. Anyway, the supply line had filled back up in the three years since our previous trip.

THIS time I got to see it happen "in real time". The day the election results came in I knew that '09 was going to rerun - and that was before Sandy Hook. I told a fellow I know, "Get it while the getting's good because things are going to hit the fan." He put it off. In January I get a call saying, "I'm looking for this rifle and some ammo" to which I responded, "Good luck!" He hit the first gunshow of the year in his town and things were nuts. Where two months prior there had been a good supply of primers, some powder, 22 ammo, black rifles galore and prices not too bad, THIS time things had changed. This is a fellow who picks up a brick or two of 22 LR every three years or so, about the time we're in the area. Then we go out and shoot it up. He was in full hording mode and picked up things he'd never pick up for the simple reason of "No one is going to tell ME what I can and can not buy!" Now multiply him times several hundred thousand (millions?) of others doing the same. Look at the polls showing a growing resistance to "gun control". Walk a gun show and see the folks who are first time buyers then think about supply and demand.

All it takes is a couple of rumors that "the government is stock piling billions of rounds" and folks run out to stockpile their own stash. Even folks who don't normally buy. Most of us never stop think about supply and demand. But look around an area where a winter blizzard or hurricane has been forecast. All of a sudden you can't find bread or milk, but yesterday they had the stuff piled to the ceiling across several aisles. The sudden panic buying cleared the place right out. The same happens in the guns and ammo trade as well. When folks who never buy a brick of ammo go out and buy a case and so do several hundred more in the same area - it doesn't take long to shrink those pallets of ammo down to bare shelves. And since it's a panic then folks are willing to buy at super inflated prices because they got caught unprepared.

For a long time folks would buy a rifle and a box of shells and those shells would be the only ones on hand for years. They might shoot one or two rounds during hunting season but that was about it. How many old Smith$Wesson's and Colts have showed up at a pawnshop or gunshop with over half of the original box of ammo that was sold with them forty years before? But now we're seeing folks shooting more and buying more than ever before. Ask Hobie about the wide variety of folks that walk through the doors of the gunshop where he works. These aren't your typical "gun folk", there's a much broader spectrum of the population that is stocking up. And when they walk in and don't find what they are looking for they just might buy something else because that's all there is.

Supply and demand, it's fascinating to watch. Especially when demand outstrips the supply by several times. I expect the next time we head north we'll find a reasonable supply of ammo and components. If not, well I cached enough to make do.

piller · Post by **piller** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:12 am

About the only thing I have bought more of than normal is the .327 Federal that PillHer shoots. I only have bought extra of it because I am now seeing it available for the first time ever. She is wanting to go shoot her pistol a little more now that she has ammo for it. In the past, all I could find were the 20 round boxes of premium self defense stuff, and not the 50 round red box in 85 or 100 grain that I am finding now. I have a box of 500 (less due to shooting) lead bullets 115 grain for the 32-20 that work well in the .327, but they are not as accurate as the JSP 100 grain bullets in her Ruger. Maybe I need to bump up the speed by going to the max powder load, but that is for another thread. Anyway, I do have some cartridges around for trips to the range, but nothing more than I always have kept. Except for the .327 Federal.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:36 am

How is the expansion going with those 85 gr. pills?

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:40 pm

molasses wrote:Where I work, we've been on 12-hour shifts, the entire place running 24/7 for several years. You can't squeeze water from a stone and there just wasn't the ability to make many times the normal production capacity on short notice anywhere within the industry.

So here's the word from one ammo plant, anyway. And this would explain a lot of this latest supply "hiccup": if most of the ammo plants were already doing pretty much 24/7 like the one where molasses works, then there just wasn't a quick way to ramp up production. Normally a plant is able to put on another shift if demand justifies it, but not if they were already running full out.

And in this regulatory/health-care climate there may not be the stomach to start any new plants, at least within the U.S.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:07 pm

molasses,
Thanks for the heads up on that.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:04 pm

I went to town today to get my hunting license and the dealers shelves looked a little bare. As I was paying for my license, I asked him if he had any .22LR . He said; No. I told him I had six or eight extra bricks of Winchester Super X Power Point 40gr HP .22LR and asked if he'd be intereted at $50.00 per brick. He siad; Yes. I went home, got it (eight bricks), took it back, and sold it to him. I also sold him 12-boxes of Winchester Super X Power Point 170gr .30-30 for $10.00 per box.

Pretty good day for me and pretty good for him.

Oh, I bought two boxes of Federal .22LR Bird Shot from him for $10.49 each. Snakes will be out soon if not already.

41 Redhawk · Post by **41 Redhawk** » Wed May 01, 2013 11:49 am

Modoc ED wrote:I'm not convinced that the shortage of primers and especially powder is caused by customer demand.

Most of the component suppliers are also in the ammo business. They are using their components to make their ammo.

DPris · Post by **DPris** » Wed May 01, 2013 12:36 pm

When I talked to Black Hills Ammo they told me one of their biggest problems is getting brass. Huge demand, short supplies. That was the primary reason they started to offer steel-cased rounds in some calibers.
ALL components are subject to the high-demand shortage.

And it's not a matter of having no stomach to expand facilities, it's a matter of sound economic sense.
This level of demand won't run forever & the ammomakers know very well if they built new facilities and spent millions in equipment & new salaries, they'd be left holding idle buildings & machinery and laying people off as soon as the bubble bursts.

Denis

Larkbill · Post by **Larkbill** » Thu May 02, 2013 11:51 am

Quite a few years ago the Olin plant in E. Alton Illinois was one of my customers. While being given a tour of those parts of the rimfire line that weren't considered "secret" I asked how many people it took to run both the rimfire and centerfire lines. The answer was basically the same, because they normally didn't run both at the same time. Don't know if it's still the same, but their system to reduce labor costs precluded having enough skilled folks to run more than a couple lines at a time. Now stop and think about how many rimfire products they offer and how many variations there are in the centerfire line. They only ran one variation at a time. I doubt they would be willing to hire and train more workers to deal with a minor spike in demand caused by fickle consumers.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu May 02, 2013 12:31 pm

earlmck wrote:And in this regulatory/health-care climate there may not be the stomach to start any new plants, at least within the U.S.

THAT is a huge factor these days with any business - too many regulations to snag you no matter what you do, so most just don't want to 'do' anything new or different, or even MORE of what they have been doing - just too dangerous from a regulatory standpoint.