Annealing - For levergunners??

[JohndeFresno]

Who does it? How often? And using what method?

Crayon method (looks like it would work for me):
Put the case in a chuck and mark around the case with a 665 Fahrenheit welding crayon, just below where you will apply the heat. Apply heat with a propane torch, turning case evenly; until the crayon melts or changes color when the correct temperature is reached (whichever it is supposed to do). Douse the case in water. The crayon would probably work for folks like me whose welding and torch experience is pretty much limited to junior high school metal shop and then a high school agricultural welding class - some 55+ years ago.

(Blue? What shade of blue? Isn't this torch thing the same device I used to make some creme brulee?)


Molten lead method:
Dip case in mica, then molten lead for a short time, if you know what you are doing; remove any
lead residue, then tumble lightly. I don't know too much about this method.

Ed Harris (legendary gunwriter) method:
Heat the cases with a propane torch, "holding them in my hand" then "drop in a water bucket as they transition from dull red to cherry, about six seconds. That takes some practice and judgement, but if you don't burn your fingers the case will not get too soft, as long as you are doing a case 2" or longer." (Way too much "art" instead of "science" for me).

Having pretty much exhausted my knowledge of annealing - what do you say?

Do you do it? For what calibers? How often or when? And using which method?

[geobru]

I anneal my 40-82 brass after about 10-15 reloads. It is resized 45-90 starline brass. I didn't have to anneal before resizing.

The method I use is to stand the brass up in a pot of water. Only the top .75" is exposed above the water. I heat the exposed brass to a dull red and tip it over into the water. I have an article on it. PM me your email and I will send it to you.

[JohndeFresno]

I anneal my 40-82 brass after about 10-15 reloads..... PM me your email and I will send [an article] to you.

Thank you, Geobru! PM sent.

John

[Dewight]

No need to dunk in water. I started annealing my 38-55 brass after noticing different bullet seating forces. Accurateshooter.com has several good discussions in their reloading forum. Recommend that anyone interested in annealing do a search in that forum. I anneal my benchrest brass (6BRX, 30br, & 20 VarTarg) after each firing. I use a Bench Source machine and it works slicker than snot.

[Marc]

The method I like is one that John Barsness recommends. Hold the base of the case in your fingers and rotate the neck of the case in a candle flame. When the base of the case gets warm wipe the case in a damp towel. The necks get black with carbon but the method works great.

For me, it is to easy to overheat the necks with the propane torch and that ruins the brass.

[ScottZ]

I don't know anything about annealing brass, but I do know that when annealing other metals, you don't quench them, you let them cool slowly. Quenching metal usually leaves it hard and brittle. Brass may be different though.



Edit - Never mind, should have used some Google fu first, brass, copper and silver can be quenched or air cooled.

[stretch]

Generally, ferrous metals are annealed by allowing 'em to cool slowly.

Copper-based alloys like brass, or karat gold, are typically quenched.
I usually quench reusable copper head gastets, drain plug gaskets,
and copper brake hose washers. All are reusable as long as they
aren't scored too badly or broken.

We once annealed an old file at a hso I worked at, bent
it 90 degrees, brushed off the scale, and left it on a
coworker's bench. Fun to watch the initial reaction!!!
(For those who don't get the joke, files are so hard that
they don't bend - they snap!)

Anyway...

-Stretch

[JimT]

Annealing Levergunners can be dangerous and usually requires someone with a cool head and a strong back. No matter what method you use you are taking your life in your own hands.

The younger levergunners can be quite violent when you try to anneal them. I once started to anneal a levergunner who appeared to be in his early twenties. When I tried to hold him over the flame he grew quite incensed and hit me on the nose something frightfully.

The older levergunners cannot move so quickly but are no less dangerous if you try to anneal them. One older fellow - he looked somewhat like Pitchy - began to yell most furiously as I applied the heat. Then he pulled a Bowie knife out of his boot a proceeded to try and carve chunks off of me.

I would not attempt to anneal any levergunners ever again. It is just an awful lot of work and sometimes plain scary.

[ScottZ]

I would guess that some contain flammable gases...

[stretch]

Gee, Jim - you've tried some REALLY hard cases....

[Sixgun]

The only time I anneal anything is when I'm dealing with very hard to find cases. Most levergun cartridges operate at low to medium pressures and will last many loadings.

When I do anneal I do it the old fashioned way. Stick 'em in a pan of water so about a half to 3/4 of an inch of the case is in water, heat it up to a dull red glow and tip 'em over.

People read too much in gun magazines. Gun writers tell how to do things in a scientific way so they don't get no critics.-----------6

[Chuck 100 yd]

I have annealed lots of brass in the past but gave it up as an unnecessary PITA for the ammo I load for.
If I were making wildcats from other cases it would be needed but I would and do just replace any brass that is in need of annealing.
I do the heat and quench method when I do it.

[Dewight]

Here is a factual article on annealing. I suggest antone who is considering annealing read it. Even some of the old timers who think they are annealing can benefit from reading it.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... annealing/

[JohndeFresno]

Great article, DeWight.

And thank you all for the comments, tips, and so on.

I may end up siding with Chuck 100 Yd and Sixgun and just hang the whole thing up, but I wanted to know what I'm getting into, as I'm starting to load more repeat rifle loads now.

JimT's anecdotal observations have further tended to convince me that maybe I should not try to anneal levergunners, after all. Thanks for that!

[piller]

I have softened copper so that I could make something from it by heating it. It became soft enough that I wasn't sure that it would work, but it hardened back up over time. I am thinking of trying somehting like that with my .30-30 brass. I read the above posts, and I still think it sounds as if it is worth a try.

[hondo1892]

Any time you heat metal up to do any kind of heat treat you need to do it in low light. Never do it in sun light or a well lighted shop. You can't "read" the color of the metal in bright light. In the blacksmith culture we have what we call a black red, which means if the room is dark you can see the iron or steel is red. If you have lots of light you see a black color instead. So if your using colors to judge the heat you need to do it in the correct light. That's just my two cents on judging temps. But I've never annealed cartridge cases before. Have done plenty of brass silver and carbon steel though.

[rbertalotto]

Couple of points:

A Candle does not get hot enough to anneal properly

There is zero difference in resulting hardness whether air or water cooled. Brass cares not.

[JohndeFresno]

...In the blacksmith culture we have what we call a black red, which means if the room is dark you can see the iron or steel is red...

Yes, that is why I think that if I ever get to the point of needing to anneal my cases, I'll use the welder's crayon trick. It wouldn't do to ruin a bunch of cases while developing an eye for the correct temperature, I don't think.

[rbertalotto]

Most levergun cartridges operate at low to medium pressures and will last many loadings.

Nearly all of the hardening of brass cartriges is from resizing, not pressure from shooting. The act of the sizing die squeezing the case multiple times work hardens the brass.

[J35]

...In the blacksmith culture we have what we call a black red, which means if the room is dark you can see the iron or steel is red...

Yes, that is why I think that if I ever get to the point of needing to anneal my cases, I'll use the welder's crayon trick. It wouldn't do to ruin a bunch of cases while developing an eye for the correct temperature, I don't think.

I am not so sure that is with out risk either, I did 50 Win. 30-30 cases with the welder's crayon and as far as the annealing went it worked good but where the crayon melted it etched the brass , a finger nail would catch on the mark left by the crayon.

The brand I used was Tempil stick.

---J

[JohndeFresno]

I am not so sure that is with out risk either, I did 50 Win. 30-30 cases with the welder's crayon and as far as the annealing went it worked good but where the crayon melted it etched the brass , a finger nail would catch on the mark left by the crayon.

The brand I used was Tempil stick.

---J

Anybody have good experience with those temp crayons of a certain brand?
I was looking at the McMaster-Carr temperature stick, Nr 3261K91, in 650F degrees (available at the McMaster-Carr site).

[stinson]

Hornady has a kit, not too expensive, easy to use. You need a slow-turning drill or driver to rotate the cases in the flame. Have had good results with it.

[JohndeFresno]

Thanks for the info, Stinson.

Welcome to the forum, fellow Levergunner!

[Griff]

The only brass I've annealed is my Bertram .40-90SBN cases. They're quite hard as shipped, and it was recommended that I anneal them. So I did

it the old fashioned way. Stick 'em in a pan of water so about a half to 3/4 of an inch of the case is in water, heat it up to a dull red glow and tip 'em over.