Customers

[6pt-sika]

As some of you may or may not know I work out of another fellows gunsmith shop kinda doing my own thing and taking care of his internet sales .

We also have a couple other fellows we farm out some of our work to .

One gentleman thats a member of our gunclub and a long time friend does our stockwork . Anything from a refinish to a complete custom stock and he does top notch work .

He is also a person that will tell you if you're going to ruin a stock . But if you still want it he'll do the work for you .

Recently this gentleman did a Krieghoff K-80 stock for a fellow and before he did it he told the guy what he wanted would ruin the piece of wood .

The "customer" got the wood back already attached to his gun , took it home and after a couple weeks blasted my friend on some of the shotgun type forums .

People like this make one not want to help their customers at all . If my friend had not told him the changes would mess the stock up I can see him blasting my friend , but doing exactly what the customer asked and then getting blamed for it not working are a crock of you know what !

[Chuck 100 yd]

BUT my uncle used to live next door to a guy who knew a gunsmith, and he said......

The customer is always right... NOT !!!

[AJMD429]

We get that in health-care all the time. Patient wants things done the 'natural' way, and won't take a "statin" or diabetes meds, then gripes when they still have a heart-attack. Next patient wants lots of statins and diabetes meds, but won't quit eating Cheerios for breakfast or stop smoking, then blames "all those drugs" for their stroke... I like the ones who will take "red yeast rice extract" but won't take a "statin", when the latter is a much more predictable, pure, and potent remedy.

Go figure...

[6pt-sika]

When you tell an idiot how wrong he is and he says do it anyway .

And the idiot says you F'd his whatever up even after you told him how it would turn out etc etc .

The idiot deserves getting his something or other kicked !

I truely wish they would get rid of the filter on this forum as it messes up my natural flow of deragatory comments

[6pt-sika]

We get that in health-care all the time. Patient wants things done the 'natural' way, and won't take a "statin" or diabetes meds, then gripes when they still have a heart-attack. Next patient wants lots of statins and diabetes meds, but won't quit eating Cheerios for breakfast or stop smoking, then blames "all those drugs" for their stroke... I like the ones who will take "red yeast rice extract" but won't take a "statin", when the latter is a much more predictable, pure, and potent remedy.

Go figure...

I resist going to the doctor .

I don't go and then tell them what to do . Like a week or so ago I went for the first time in about 5 years . And I did exactly what the nurse practitioner told me NO PROBLEM . And strangely enough it worked !

IMAGINE THAT

[6pt-sika]

BUT my uncle used to live next door to a guy who knew a gunsmith, and he said......

The customer is always right... NOT !!!

I would not stick up for this fellow if I hadn't know him and his work for a number of years . He does work for the shop and he's done work for me . He always told me how it was going to be and what the best way to go was and I always heeded his comments . He ALWAYS told me the truth .

The guy who blasted him is a skeet shooter that has a bit more money then brains .

He's one of those guys that thinks money can buy targets rather then ability or practice .

I remmember any number of these guys when I used to compete . They were typically professional white colar types who had a high grade Perazzi or Krieghoff with their trophy seceretary on their arm at the far away shoots they flew to in their private plane . And not a GD one of them was above low A or B classification .

Granted everyone shoots or competes for different reasons . But this type person has irked me for 40 years !

[Sixgun]

Its because of customers like that is the reason we have so many lawyers and is the main reason for signed contracts. Society is breeding a nation full of sociopaths.

If I was your buddy who did the work I would get on the forums and bash the "customer" back going as far to say things like, "whats the big deal, you only shoot 10 X 25 anyway" or "it was probably your bad breath that ruined the finish"-------------Sixgun

[Larkbill]

"I remember any number of these guys when I used to compete . They were typically professional white colar types who had a high grade Perazzi or Krieghoff with their trophy secretary on their arm at the far away shoots they flew to in their private plane . And not a GD one of them was above low A or B classification."

My bro and I used to shoot sporting clays with a cat like that. He spent a couple thousand on custom stock fitting then when he still couldn't hit anything we each tried his gun and broke birds with it. The last we heard he was suing the stock guy. Not sure how that works.

[Panzercat]

Frankly, there are some days you should just refuse business.
This was one of those.

[buckeyeshooter]

Definition of stupidity--- taking a project to a professional and asking advice, then not taking it when they give it to you and having them 'do it your way' and not liking the result!

If I take anything to a professional for evaluation and/or repair I let them do the job as a professional, that is why I took it to a professional!

[6pt-sika]

If I was your buddy who did the work I would get on the forums and bash the "customer" back going as far to say things like, "whats the big deal, you only shoot 10 X 25 anyway" or "it was probably your bad breath that ruined the finish"-------------Sixgun

This guy does not own or know hwo to use a PC .

The shotgun forums the guy bashed him on had plenty of his satisfied customers and they blazed the idiot a new one almost as soon as he posted his BS . Which was how he heard about it in the first place .

While I agree with what you say I think it looks a good deal more credible when 10 or 12 other guys spoke up on his behalf rather then him personally having a p...ing match with the twit !

[olyinaz]

No shortage of horse's patoots in this world! Don't let 'em get to you.

[mikld]

In today's society, the first thing after a disaster, unhappy event, or a screwed up idea, is to lay blame on someone. After a hurricane, the feds are blamed for not reacting like they "should" or the contractor's didn't build their homes tough enough, after shooting, the gun-nuts are blamed for our violent society, after a screwed up idea (even after a warning) the stockmaker is blamed. The inability to accept responsibility for one's actions is common (just watch the news...).

[awp101]

Sometimes sales reps are just as bad.

Our national trainer was in last week training some customers. During some down time he told me about the email and phone conversations he was having with a sales rep. Since I deal primarily with our 1/2 drive tools, he thought I'd get a kick out of it.

Seems this sales rep had sold some of our 1/2 drive impacts to a customer and they were breaking the rotor inside (not something easily done but it can be done).

OK, what model?

The XXXX. You know, the one designed and sold for the occasional shade tree mechanic doing his own vehicle maintenance.

Ummm, OK. What's the application?

They're using them in a copper mine.

Seriously? (I just about hit the floor at that point)

Yeah and after I told him how stupid he was to sell that model to them he backtracked and said they were just using them in the maintenance shop.

Doesn't matter. You and I both know THAT tool isn't designed for THAT kind of use!

Yeah, and the sales rep is wanting to know what we can do to fix the problem.

[6pt-sika]

At the last actual company I worked , they did machining of master cylinders and valve blocks for anti lock brake systems .

The Tool Engineer then was responsible for ordering the tooling for all the CNC machines which was about 90% of what was in the shop . I used to have to work rather closely with this idiot .

Anyway after I left that company I ran across the Tool Engineer at the local gunclub as he;s a member there (I never liked this guy) . And he cried to me about getting fired from the company .

Later I talked with some folks I new who still worked there , come to find out he was buying substanderd tooling and getting a small kickback from the vendors .

Next time I saw him he was still crying about loosing his job and I casually asked him if the vendor kickback had been worth it . Since that time he's not said a word to me , that rude comment served a double purpose ! I stuck the knife in him and he won't speak to me anymore certainly a win win situaton !

[stretch]

That's always a fun situation - NOT!

Let's do what the customer asks, even though we know it to
be wrong. The ONLY correct approach to that situation in my opinion
is to not take the job. If the customer loves it, he'll show
everybody he knows, and the craftsman will look like a fool to
those people who actually know what they are talking about.
If the customer hates it, he'll tell everyone he knows, and the
craftsman will look like a fool. Either way, the worker's reputation
suffers.

-Stretch

[92&94]

I'm with panzercat and stretch, the thing to do is refuse work like this. Customer wants something stupid, they can find someone stupid enough to do it for them - no offense intended to your friend, but it is not always wise to do what the customer wants.

On the little bit of woodwork I still do for money, I have an absolute guarantee - repair, replace, or refund. But the choice is all mine, not the customer's.

[.45colt]

30 years ago when I was shooting trap and skeet alot,One of the regular Guys at the club was Harry the Welder... He was a bachlor for many,many, years and a great Guy,Good shot and Fun to be with.
He did not tolerate any bull**** from people in general much less customers. If You were fair with Him thats all it took.He would get the problem fixed one way or another.
One Day an Amish Farmer brings a piece of cast iron machinery to Him,I need it real bad....Next day the Farmer comes back. The Farmer askes "whats the Bill". Harry says $50.00. The Farmer say's thats "alot of money". Harry says O.K. just a second....He get's a 12lb hammer from the corner and smashes it to pieces. There You Go,Now... Get it out of Here says Harry. Life should be so Easy. .

[44-40 Willy]

When I was doing the mechanic thing, a couple of times I had customers want me to put an oversized Holley carb on their cars trying to make a muscle car out of it. I'd tell them it was too much carb for their engine being used on the street and when they insisted, I'd refuse the work.

The other side of the coin is taking something to a self proclaimed professional and then having him go off on a tangent all on his own and botch the job. I had a so called gunsmith cut a dovetail in a 22 barrel once clean down into the bore when all I wanted was a side scope mount because he thought it would be better and didn't bother to consult me about his change in plan before he started cutting. The sad thing is that I really liked that ol' 22 and have never been able to find another barrel for it.

[Old Ironsights]

Pfff.

About 1/5-1/3 of my "customers" are welfare sucks who buy the frozen food off my truck with MY money.

98% of those I can barely stand to set foot into their rat-pit "homes".

I don't care if people are "poor", heck, I have a couple of "customers" where they are so genuinely in trouble I cut them "extra special coupon" breaks...

But there's an awful lot of Plasma-screen watching, Escalade owning, Food Stamp Sucks I'd just as soon shoot & burn out of their rat-hole trailers as give another pint of Ice Cream....

[3leggedturtle]

OI; what are you really trying to say Yep sad fact is I lived around a lot of people like that; they always had cigs and drinks tho, after you talk to them for awhile, you find out they really aren't as happy as they act and talk.

[6pt-sika]

The other side of the coin is taking something to a self proclaimed professional and then having him go off on a tangent all on his own and botch the job.

Look Mr.Devil's Advocate , my friend did as the guy asked after he had told the guy what it was going to look like .

Granted maybe he shouldn't have taken the job .

But since I first posted I have found out the idiot that bad mouthed my friend on the web said in his original post that my friend told him what he wanted wouldn't look good etc . And then Mr. Idiot said it was just as my friend told him blah blah blah .

[Old Ironsights]

Printed recommendations & concerns.

Signed contract.

Post the PDF.

End of issue.

[44-40 Willy]

The other side of the coin is taking something to a self proclaimed professional and then having him go off on a tangent all on his own and botch the job.

Look Mr.Devil's Advocate , my friend did as the guy asked after he had told the guy what it was going to look like .

Granted maybe he shouldn't have taken the job .

But since I first posted I have found out the idiot that bad mouthed my friend on the web said in his original post that my friend told him what he wanted wouldn't look good etc . And then Mr. Idiot said it was just as my friend told him blah blah blah .

Who peed in your Wheaties? I never said your friend did anything other than what the customer requested.

[6pt-sika]

The other side of the coin is taking something to a self proclaimed professional and then having him go off on a tangent all on his own and botch the job.

Look Mr.Devil's Advocate , my friend did as the guy asked after he had told the guy what it was going to look like .

Granted maybe he shouldn't have taken the job .

But since I first posted I have found out the idiot that bad mouthed my friend on the web said in his original post that my friend told him what he wanted wouldn't look good etc . And then Mr. Idiot said it was just as my friend told him blah blah blah .

Who peed in your Wheaties? I never said your friend did anything other than what the customer requested.

You came across to me as saying perhaps my friend is a self proclaimed professional .

So I guesse YOU DID !

[92&94]

I don't think anyone who has posted here would fault your friend's honesty, professionalism, or conduct. His customer was and is a jerk, idiot, and a whole bunch of other stuff I can't post here. We end up offering advice because your buddy sounds like a good guy who doesn't deserve customers like that one. Not a lot of point in commenting on the customer, he's a lost cause and probably makes a pest of himself where ever he turns up.

I didn't think Willy's comment was directed at your friend at all, more like expressing the frustration that an honest customer feels when they come across a bad gunsmith - sorta like Old Ironsights comments, just venting and not really directed anywhere. Let it drift.