Rossi 454 lever ?'s

[Sigmar]

Those that saw my intro saw that I'm interested in getting one. Questions I have are do they reliably feed 45LC and just how bad is the kick compared to say a 300 mag ?

[AJMD429]

My 20" Rossi kicks like a 20-gauge or therabouts. It's in the category of "you know you're shooting a real gun", but not in the category of "ouch this is going to hurt". Mine came with a rubber recoil pad which probably helps. I'm not super recoil-shy, either, but I dread shooting a 12 gauge breakopen with slugs, so I'm not all that tough, either!

Mine seems to feed .45 Colts, never tried .45 Schofields in it, though they'd supposedly fire. Only fired mine maybe 10 rounds total, about 1/4 of them Casulls.

[Pisgah]

My octagon 24" barreled .45 Colt with curved steel buttplate shooting heavy loads is a pussycat compared to my friend's .454 carbine. While it doesn't hurt me to shoot it, for me it is too much of a good thing. Were I living in big griz country, or Africa, the .454 would be a more comfortable rifle to shoot, maybe, but in most of the world that much fuss and bother isn't required.

[Sigmar]

My octagon 24" barreled .45 Colt with curved steel buttplate shooting heavy loads is a pussycat compared to my friend's .454 carbine. While it doesn't hurt me to shoot it, for me it is too much of a good thing. Were I living in big griz country, or Africa, the .454 would be a more comfortable rifle to shoot, maybe, but in most of the world that much fuss and bother isn't required.

Fuss and bother,,,,,,explain

[7.62 Precision]

Muy wife's .454 Rossi 92 feeds .454 perfectly, but feeds .45 Colt a bit rough - you can feel you are forcing the round to feed. It feeds both without malfunction, but the .454 feeds very smoothly. It probably could be tuned a bit to feed both well, but for it's purpose I would prefer that it feeds the .454 better than the other way around.

It is a great little carbine. Shooting heavy cast bullets it exceeds factory .45-70 performance out of a light, 16" carbine with negligible recoil. Hard to beat for bear protection.

It does not seem to like Braztech .454 ammo - it throws bullets all over the place - but is seems plenty accurate with everything else we have put through it. Recoil is pretty light with .454 and non-existent with .45 Colt standard pressure loads.

[rusty gunns]

I had one for a while. Puma has solved the old tube feed problem from the earlier models. Mine fed both 45 colt and 454 smoothly. I loaded up some hot gas checked 300 gr 452 rounds with 10.5 grains of unique and it shot to the same point of aim as the tamer 8 gr 250's.

For me, when I fired the 454 rounds. I knew I was shooting a serious bullet. The recoil was more than sharp and its not the kind of round you fire 50 of at the range ... for sure.

The only negative I saw was that the point of aim was so different. In my mind, you had better be sure of which round you had in the rifle. If you thought you had a 45 colt in it and had chambered one of the 454's, you'd shoot that 454 way too high. And the opposite if it were the inverse.

Either way, other than the point of aim and sharp recoil, it does exactly what it should. In Griz country, I'd feel very safe with this light, easy to carry carbine. Its a rugged and ballsie little 92.

Just a note. Like the 38/357, you need to clean that chamber real well after shooting 45 colts or you could get the dreaded lead build up that made it jam loading a 454.

Also, I bought some chromed Starlight brass for my hot 45 colts, so I could easily tell them apart from my standard loads to make sure none of them would end up in my pistols

I sold mine to get some capital for my 1897 colt. But if I wanted a super carbine in a "not traditional caliber". This would be a real contender. My Marlyn cowboy in 45 colt takes first place.

[6pt-sika]

I had a Puma but it was on the 480 Ruger ordered it got it kept it a year and traded it still NIB I do not lile them.

[Old Savage]

What I see is people puff their chest over them but so far no one seems to really use them - a heavy 45 Colt seems better for that. Stories invited about regular use of a 92 454 for hunting.

On the other hand a Marlin 45-70 of similar power - no big deal. Sometimes you hear talk about how handy they are but - are these for carrying or shooting?

[AJMD429]

I think O.S. is right.

I would figure mine a 'must have' if I lived in bear country, but otherwise aside from the better magazine attachment it doesn't look like it is all that much 'better' than a regular 92 in .45 Colt. Supposedly a bit stronger elsewhere but I've yet to figure the details (I know some of the spare parts I ordered would not interchange with regular .45 Colt guns, so something internal may indeed be different - NKJ would know).

I really like the 'tube-loading' magazine though; just a tad extra front-weight in exchange for much faster loading and unloading.

[piller]

I have a Guide Gun that is for hunting. I shoot it some at the range, but for extended range sessions, I go to a .22lr. Anything more than 50 rounds out of the Guide Gun starts to get a bit more than I can do comfortably. I don't see a need to cause a flinch. Same with my .480 Rossi M92. I can shoot the standard 325 grain factory loads without much worry, but when I start using the 400 grain loads, or increasing the velocity above factory, then the kick starts to get a bit sharp. 325 grain lead and IMR4227 actually makes for a comfortable kick and a lot more fun at the range. I can assume the .454 Casull is the same way.

[Ranch Dog]

Greetings fellows, I have a Braztech R92 chambered in 454 Casull and have just placed it in full time service here on the rancho. I also have R92s chambered in 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, and 480 Ruger so I feel pretty well versed in them.

In a direct comparison between the 45 Colt and 454 Casull I see three destinct advantages:

• Magazine tube security and access
• Improved butt stock with recoil pad
• 454 Casull case life over that of the 45 Colt

In the 45 Colt, I'm shooting a 290-grain home cast bullet of my design at 35.0 KPSI, I have pressure trace equipment, and with the R92's square, steel butt plate, consider the felt recoil brutal. The reason for limiting pressure is after examining case failures in the 45 Colt's chamber. By SAAMI spec, the relationship between case and chamber wall is loose as most 45 Colt shooters realize. The data I've collected in trying to make a 45 Colt a 454 Casull has result in premature case failure. By limiting the PSI to 35.0K I've been able see ten reloads through my brass, any higher and I see 3 to 5 cycles before failure.

With the 454 Casull, I do not think this will be an issue. I've just started shooting the rifle with the same bullet but at 48.0 KPSI, there is no hint of stress as the relationship between brass and chamber on the Casull is tight. I'm going to start working with the Casull up to the max pressure this week. Again, my worry with pushing the Colt hard is case failure at the shot.

The difference, using the same bullet, between 35.0 KPSI in the Colt and 48.0 KPSI in the Casull is 400 FPS. That is a very big sneeze! You are looking at 2000 FPE to 2970 FPE, roughly a third more with room for more!

When I received my Casull, it would not cycle 454 Casull cartridges. I adjusted the Cartridge Guides, Left and Right, so that it would cycle my Round-Flat nose bullet at an OAL of 1.800" which places it .005" off the lands. Yes, it cycles 45 Colt cartridge perfectly after the trimming but I really doubt I will ever fire one through it in that I have the Colt. When I removed the butt stock, I found that it was cracked inside so I made the repair and refinished the stocks with Tru-Oil.

All my Rossi R92s are scouts using the Weaver K4 Scout scope and yes, the butt stocks have the synthetic comb on them. I choose to scout these as I hunt, and hunt almost daily, in very low light conditions.

Here is my R92 454 Scout...



Here are the first two "test drives" with the rifle this week.

[7.62 Precision]

What I see is people puff their chest over them but so far no one seems to really use them - a heavy 45 Colt seems better for that. Stories invited about regular use of a 92 454 for hunting.

On the other hand a Marlin 45-70 of similar power - no big deal. Sometimes you hear talk about how handy they are but - are these for carrying or shooting?

I don't think the .454 92 would be my first choice for regular hunting, though it would work fine. .45 Colt and .357 work fine too. In fact, a .357 from a 92 becomes a great hunting combo for a lot of things.

I don't think I would probably even mess with the .454 if I did not live where the bears are big and can be aggressive. I would probably prefer the .45 Colt, and even the .45 Colt with the right loads could whack a bear pretty hard.

However, since I do live and have my family around big bears, I like the advantages of the .454 for bear protection. As you said, it is for carrying more than shooting. The advantages for me are that it is very short, very light, and easy for my wife to carry, and recoil is far less than a .45-70, so easier to shoot and quicker followup shots.

Disadvantages are that the carbine is more expensive than .45 Colts, and the ammo is definitely more expensive and not as fun to shoot. I would really think about my needs before I purchase a .454 over a .45 Colt. Any thing other than a brown bear I would be comfortable to hunt with the .45 Colt. Also, I don't care for the ugly buttpad, but it is tough to find a replacement that can be ground to the right size. I would be happy with steel, but prefer a buttpad because it is my wife's. Best I guess to just cover it with leather or something.

[olyinaz]

Greetings fellows, I have a Braztech R92 chambered in 454 Casull and have just placed it in full time service here on the rancho. I also have R92s chambered in 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 45 Colt, and 480 Ruger so I feel pretty well versed in them.

In a direct comparison between the 45 Colt and 454 Casull I see three destinct advantages:

• Magazine tube security and access
• Improved butt stock with recoil pad
• 454 Casull case life over that of the 45 Colt

In the 45 Colt, I'm shooting a 290-grain home cast bullet of my design at 35.0 KPSI, I have pressure trace equipment, and with the R92's square, steel butt plate, consider the felt recoil brutal. The reason for limiting pressure is after examining case failures in the 45 Colt's chamber. By SAAMI spec, the relationship between case and chamber wall is loose as most 45 Colt shooters realize. The data I've collected in trying to make a 45 Colt a 454 Casull has result in premature case failure. By limiting the PSI to 35.0K I've been able see ten reloads through my brass, any higher and I see 3 to 5 cycles before failure.

With the 454 Casull, I do not think this will be an issue. I've just started shooting the rifle with the same bullet but at 48.0 KPSI, there is no hint of stress as the relationship between brass and chamber on the Casull is tight. I'm going to start working with the Casull up to the max pressure this week. Again, my worry with pushing the Colt hard is case failure at the shot.

The difference, using the same bullet, between 35.0 KPSI in the Colt and 48.0 KPSI in the Casull is 400 FPS. That is a very big sneeze! You are looking at 2000 FPE to 2970 FPE, roughly a third more with room for more!

When I received my Casull, it would not cycle 454 Casull cartridges. I adjusted the Cartridge Guides, Left and Right, so that it would cycle my Round-Flat nose bullet at an OAL of 1.800" which places it .005" off the lands. Yes, it cycles 45 Colt cartridge perfectly after the trimming but I really doubt I will ever fire one through it in that I have the Colt. When I removed the butt stock, I found that it was cracked inside so I made the repair and refinished the stocks with Tru-Oil.

All my Rossi R92s are scouts using the Weaver K4 Scout scope and yes, the butt stocks have the synthetic comb on them. I choose to scout these as I hunt, and hunt almost daily, in very low light conditions.

Wonderful post. Thanks!

[earlmck]

In a direct comparison between the 45 Colt and 454 Casull I see three destinct advantages:

Magazine tube security and access
Improved butt stock with recoil pad
454 Casull case life over that of the 45 Colt

That's a really fine write-up, Ranch Dog, and nifty pictures. The only thing I might add is that it is nice not to have some cartridges sitting around loaded to 36K psi that are visually no different from cartridges loaded to 12K psi for an ancient Colt. I had that situation for a while as I played with my Rossi using both 454 and 45 Colt cases. Started with them labelled "Rifle only" and then decided -- Earl this is dumb, just stick with the 454 cases for the rifle and 45 Colt cases for the old pistol and quit worrying about it. And that's how it is around here now.

[Old Savage]

That is a good idea. And, nothing says the 454 cases have to be loaded hot. You can make the rifle any power you like.

I find it interesting to read how people are actually using these rifles. I surprisingly don't find it uncomfortable to shoot my 92 with 360 gr loads at 1350 fps but a lot more and I would wonder. 500 more fps is fine in my 1895SS.

[Pisgah]

My octagon 24" barreled .45 Colt with curved steel buttplate shooting heavy loads is a pussycat compared to my friend's .454 carbine. While it doesn't hurt me to shoot it, for me it is too much of a good thing. Were I living in big griz country, or Africa, the .454 would be a more comfortable rifle to shoot, maybe, but in most of the world that much fuss and bother isn't required.

Fuss and bother,,,,,,explain

Blast and kick.

[rusty gunns]

That is a good idea. And, nothing says the 454 cases have to be loaded hot. You can make the rifle any power you like.

I find it interesting to read how people are actually using these rifles. I surprisingly don't find it uncomfortable to shoot my 92 with 360 gr loads at 1350 fps but a lot more and I would wonder. 500 more fps is fine in my 1895SS.

That's perfect logic, sound judgement, and an important safety issue, but I went to the nickle plated 45 Colt brass mostly because the 454 brass uses a small pistol primer and changing my progressive loader is a pain in the butt. As far as 454, since I don't live in big bear country, I would shoot it, and carry it in the woods with feisty 45 Colts. I carried five 454 factory ammo in belt loops. They could be loaded quick enough.

Obviously, if I was in big bear country, they would already be in the tube and not on my belt.
(That would sort of be like the punch line in that old joke... "How can you tell the difference between griz scat and black bear scat? One has little bells in it.")

But after a time, I saw that I had no need for the 454, round and since I am slowly replacing my newly manufactured rifles for originals, I sold the gun. I have an 86 in 45-70, so I do have the artillery if I want it.

But alas, I'm still in the middle of my honeymoon with original 44-40's and 38-40's.

[Old Savage]

Good points Rusty - this has a place and is useable if you are serious as we have seen from some of the fellas. YOU of course are now in the clutches of the sirens songs

[Sigmar]

Thanks gentlemen for the response. Now I just need to get my order in. I think it will be a fine companion to the revolver. I did get a chance to handle a 45-70 this weekend and was surprised at the lightness.

[SteveR]

I bought mine to go with my Freedom Arms 454, had hopes of using the same load in both. Well the Rossi loves 300 gain XTP Mags, and the FA loves 300 gr LaserCast.

Plus I had to remove about 1/2 the front sight to get it to shoot to aim with the 454 load. I intend to stay with the 454 load, why buy if it you are going to shoot 45 out of it.

I shot a lot of whitetails with the 300gr Hornady XTP Mags, and ever one dropped in its tracks. Probably over kill for whitetail, but I like to shoot them with the FA and its all fun.

Go for it, you will not regret it.

Steve

[Sigmar]

As hard to find as hen's teeth grrrrrrrr

[Old Savage]

Steve I would like to hear more details.

[SteveR]

Steve I would like to hear more details.

Hi OS,

The only thing I don't like was the tube mag. It never came open when hunting or carrying, but if the tube is empty, it might fall out.

I like the butt pad that comes with it, definitely makes shooting easier on your shoulder, but my 12 guage Rem 870 kicks more, in my opinion.

I would fill the tube mag, throw on my FA with 1/2 the belt loops with 300 XTP Mags and the rest 300 gr hardcast for the FA, and never worry about anything walking the wood around me.

I can say that with the tube fully loaded, the extra weight of the bullets, helps control the recoil.

Steve