Uberti 1873 rifle timing problem

[OD#3]

I recently purchased a brand-new Uberti 1873 sporting rifle in .45 Colt, but it appears to have issues. I haven't shot it, because the first time I tried to test cycle some rounds through it, they consistently hung up on the cartridge rim support lug as the carrier was trying to lift them. Since these were BP handloads of mine for my Colt SAA, and this was my first toggle rifle in a long time (I sold my '60 Henry repro many years ago) I first assumed that I hadn't adhered to the COL exactly. Today I measured the rounds, and all were about 1.59 and fit easily in the frame window for the carrier. At the lever's open travel limit, the bolt face is retracted into the rear of the receiver's carrier window slightly, and the cartridge rim support lug is flush with the rear of the carrier window--exactly as it should be, I think. But during cycling, it appears as if the carrier is rising a little too early, causing the rising cartridge rim to catch on the bottom of the cartridge rim support lug, jamming up the works. Either that, or the lug itself is too long.

According to Chicoine's book "Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West", the bolt shoulder is supposed to snug up against the abutment on the receiver when closed. On mine, there is at least a millimeter gap between these two surfaces when the bolt is closed, and it is rather the cartridge rim support lug that bottoms out against the bottom of the chamber (the relief cut here being too small to allow the lug to enter completely without wedging against the top and bottom of the cut). I don't know how hard it is mashing against this area, but it looks like it could eventually peen the bottom of the chamber up, causing chambering issues.

I'm confident that I can delay the carrier rise by removing some metal from the top of the lifter arm, but I'm worried that this would also lower the carrier's final height, causing poor feeding. So I'm thinking that perhaps I should instead remove some metal from the cartridge rim support lug. This should allow the rim to clear it on the way up and also prevent the lug from contacting the lug relief cut at the bottom of the chamber. But I just don't know. This is my first 1873, and I'd hadn't expected to have these issues with a new Uberti.

Is it common for there to be a space on a closed bolt between its shoulders and the frame with Uberties? As long as the headspace is fine (and it is), I wouldn't think it would matter all that much, except that Chicoine mentions a tight fit here as being one of the goals when tighting up a loose toggle action, and that there should be a little resistance felt as the result of this when links approach top dead center. The only resistance I feel is from the carrier arm springing back down. I really hate to get involved in a warranty repair hassle, and I'd rather just fix this myself with a little adjustment if that's all it takes. But considering the other poor fitment concerns, did I just get a bad rifle?

[COSteve]

Done

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Howdy and welcome to the fire.

You didn't say but has this gun had a short stroke kit added? The reason I ask is because the problem you describe is common when these guns are short stroked. Even if it's not you are on the right track to fix it. Don't modify that rim shelf though.
You first idea of taking metal from the lifter arm is on track but don't remove it from the top of the arm. Remove some from the contact surface where it interfaces with the lever. Take it apart and then lay the lifter arm on the lever then you will see where they come together to lift the carrier. Just remove a small amount there.
BTW, this is how the install instruction for timing the short stroke parts tell you how to do it.

[pwl44m]

Welcome to the Forum OD#3.
Perry

[Shasta]

I had a similar problem with my original 1873 in .44-40. I cured it by ordering a custom bullet mold that allows me to crimp my bullets to give an OAL about .040" shorter.
Maybe you could try loading one or two rounds with a shorter OAL and see if they feed.

SHASTA

[OD#3]

Thanks for all the help guys. I don't have a short stroke kit; this rifle is box stock. I looked at it again more carefully today, cycling the action very slowly, and I discovered that I'd been wrong about where the cartridge rim was hanging up. The cartridge rim guide lug actually cleared the rim just in time. The rim was instead catching on the receiver, because the nose of the cartridge was jammed to the left. This also caused the nose to drag and catch on the area between the magazine tube and the chamber. Thinking that I had one of those Ubertis that was missing the bevel at the rear of the carrier motice cut, I stripped the rifle down to correct the problem. I was surprised to find that I had the correct bevel. But it was a bit rough and burred, as was area between the magazine tube and chamber. So I stoned and polished these areas carefully, removing all burrs. Since I had it apart anyway, I decided to address the very stiff hammer and the atrocious trigger pull. A washer under the mainspring lightened the hammer significantly (I hope not too much; I haven't seen if it will pop a primer yet), and narrowing the trigger and safety springs as well as performing a very light stoning on the sear and hammer notches improved the trigger pull and eased the levering back of the bolt significantly. For good measure, I polished the large bevel at the front of the carrier block as well as the opening in the rear. The modest tuning did wonders for the action, but the rifle still hung up on my cartridges; they were still twisting to the left and jamming up. I finally followed Shasta's advice and just ran some of my 454190 BP loads back through the seating die set this time to a COL of about 1.50. The lead was soft anyway, and the compressed BP charge offered enough resistance for the nose to just smush down to the new COL--albiet with a slightly wider meplat now. Voila! These new shorter rounds feed slick as a ribbon! So it looks like a 454190 at 1.59 COL is just too long, and 1.50 is my new COL for all of my .45 Colt loads from now on. I wonder if all Uberti lever rifles in .45 Colt require a bit shorter rounds.
As an aside, I still don't know about the gap between the bolt shoulder and the frame, but I've tried to include a photo to illustrate this as well as a few photos illustrating the receiver bevel and the area I stoned between the magazine tube and the chamber.

[Buck Elliott]

Just checked my 250-gr. .45 Colt loads. They are loaded with Oregon Trail LaserCast bullets, seated and crimped at 1.585" and function flawlessly in my Uberti '73..

[OD#3]

I wonder if the nose shape has anything to do with it. I was using the 454190 bullet which is rather pointy despite its flat nose. Do yours have a pretty wide meplat?

[Buck Elliott]

Meplat is right at .250"...

[M. M. Wright]

Happy to see you here OD#3 and you didn't even get yelled at for not posting pictures with your first post which you quickly corrected. Great pictures too and of a pretty rifle. Glad you got it working.

[OD#3]

Thanks very much for the welcome, and thanks, Buck for the info. I've been trying to pare down my calibers over the years to make shooting and reloading cheaper and simpler, but I've had a time tailoring a good .45 Colt load that works well in every handgun I own in that caliber. And the '73 just added its own special demands.

[Griff]

I load for 4 different .45 Colt revolvers and 5 different .45 Colt rifles. I keep my COAL to 1.580 and for the rifles only use a round flat nose or truncated cone... tho' the meplat size does vary between the various weights. Most are about that .250 size.

Revolvers are Colts, a Uberti and an ASM (both are Colt clones). The rifles are a Uberti 1873, Uberti 1860, Rossi 1892, Marlin 1894 and a Browning 1885.

and Welcome to THE Forum!