POLITICS - governor of New York

[brucew44guns]

Well, my MSN home page has a picture of Elliot Spitzer on it, says he has been linked with a prostitution ring. This is Hillarys buddy I believe, and he loves to talk the horrors of owning a gun as well. So maybe if these allegations stick, this will be one liberal governor who we won't hear from pretty soon, one can hope.

[Hobie]

Sorry, not laughing at YOU but at but at myself for having the momentary idea that this will slow down stupid anti-gun politicians. As you know, what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander with that bunch.

AND apparently this goes beyond being out for a good time but somehow includes an indictable offense and organized crime.

[Old Ironsights]

And this is surprising in what way?

So what ifhe busted Prostitution rings as a DA.

Laws are made to be used against US, not THEM... and besides, the Government hates Competition.

[Jeeps]

Just heard it on the way to the store to get some copenhagen.

Elitist scumbag is all I can think of.

Everytime those liberal jackbutts talk about our country going down the tubes,
ITS THEM THAT ARE DOING IT. Along with some conservatives that DO NOT
deserve to wear the name.

We know that laws can't stop criminals.

Only law abiding citizens obey laws.

So what does that make the Governor of New York?

Dang right

[Charles]

The whole event is very sad. Sad for his wife and family and sad for the people who put their trust in him. No good will come from this only paid.

That said... I hope we don't give in the most base form of hypocrisy in bashing this guy who got caught with his pants down. My experience with human beings tells me a large portion of the men on this board have been at one time or another in an "unseemly" sexual situation.

I remember the story of Jesus coming upon a bunch of men who were getting ready to kill the town hooker by stoning... He told them that the one without sin should cast the first stone. They droped their weapons and went home. He then told them woman to go and sin no more.

So bash this poor sap all you want, but just take a look and see how clean your hands are. His marriage, the respect of his children and friends and his career are all down the crapper. I will pray for them all.

[TedH]

Of course all of us decent folks will be calling for his head on a platter, but Hillary and the other liberal scumbags will accept his heartfelt apology and tell everyone to move on.

[tman]

if he did it on his own time, with his own money, then he should be treated like anybody else who screws up occasinally. his named is now ruined and his political carrer is over. not to mention what his poor wife will do to him. she is the victium in an otherwise victumless crime. if ,there were mob ties, any chance of black mail, or influence peddling, prosecute him to full extend of the law and make an example of him.

[Jeeps]

The whole event is very sad. Sad for his wife and family and sad for the people who put their trust in him. No good will come from this only paid.

That said... I hope we don't give in the most base form of hypocrisy in bashing this guy who got caught with his pants down. My experience with human beings tells me a large portion of the men on this board have been at one time or another in an "unseemly" sexual situation.

I remember the story of Jesus coming upon a bunch of men who were getting ready to kill the town hooker by stoning... He told them that the one without sin should cast the first stone. They droped their weapons and went home. He then told them woman to go and sin no more.

So bash this poor sap all you want, but just take a look and see how clean your hands are. His marriage, the respect of his children and friends and his career are all down the crapper. I will pray for them all.

I see what your saying Charles, and it does give me pause, I respect your
view. I would forgive any regular mans lack of strength, even Spitzers.
We have all failed a test at times in our lives.

But this man has put people in jail, taken away their freedoms over the exact
crime he has commited.

I liken it to an LEO driving drunk or a school teacher or priest taking advantage
of a trusting child.

The people of NY gave this man a trust, and a considerable paycheck as well
to uphold our laws and provide leadership.

Politicians (most of them) are no longer concerned with the trust you have
in them, they are in the game for selfish reasons. Look at Obama, he was
voted into the senate by peoples trust, and is being supported by the same
trust across the country to run for President. If he doesn't win HE WONT ACCEPT
VICE PRESIDENT. A lot of people are looking to him for leadership, but if he
doesn't get what he wants, he quits. That is a betrayal of trust.

I'm pretty sure of those on this forum that have had lapses in judgment
didn't first run around and ask people to trust them and give them millions
of dollars to uphold that trust.

There is a difference between the average man and one that puts himself
on a pedestal. I can bet he won't suffer as much as those he has convicted
in the past.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

The very first headlines hinted that his resignation would be following shortly. He mentioned nothing about resigning however ... in his short announcement.

I would guess that if Larry Craig can stay in his seat, this guy is golden and may actually get an award from the DNC for this.

[JReed]

if he did it on his own time, with his own money, then he should be treated like anybody else who screws up occasinally. his named is now ruined and his political carrer is over. not to mention what his poor wife will do to him. she is the victium in an otherwise victumless crime. if ,there were mob ties, any chance of black mail, or influence peddling, prosecute him to full extend of the law and make an example of him.

Its not his money it is the taxpayers money. He is responsible to his employers (the people) to obey the law. This is not a victimless crime his wife is the main victim followed closely by the Citizens of the State of New York. This is the same sort of thinking that let Clinton off the hook when he got bodily fluids all over Monicas dress. The only thing this acomplishes is the further lowering of the already low moral standards of our nation. If he is guilty burn him

[Charles]

Jeep...no doubt the man is a hyprocrit of the highest order. No doubt the higher up the ladder your are, the harder you fall. No doubt a man should pay the full measure of penalty for the breech of public trust.

I just hope the hypocrisy of one man, doesn't give rise to the hypocisy of many men. If we are as hyprocitical as that man is/was, when what is there to distinguish between him and us.

Just food for thought...just food for thought.

[Jeeps]

I agree Charles. My belly still burns when I think of him. It is the double dealing
that hurts the worst.

Kinda like Rosie O'donell saying no one should have guns and being surrounded
by weapons meant for her defense is despicable. Actually I believe he fits this
same mold as well.

[ole pizen slinger]

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked; Whatsoever a man soeth, that shall he also reap."

If not in this world then in the one to come. Mankind wants to sow wild oats and then pray for crop failures. Every time I've sowed wild oats I got bumper crops. We'll all be judged one day--so live the way you want to be judged.
ole pizen slinger

[homefront]

Elliot Spitzer is an absolute egotistical jerk, who has run over a lot of people. The kind of man who abuses power and people. I'm glad he got caught, I'm sure it's not the only thing they'll find.

[oldmax]

This person would do anything to destroy anyone that was in his way.'

He would have NO compassion for anyone......

He would take YOUR Guns , Would destroy your country....
Destroy YOUR Family, What ever it takes for his Power to Dictate

Compassion, NEVER..... They always want compassion after they
are caught, BUT for you , Your family NO WAY...

BURN Him NOW, 1 less Power Hungry liberal.

[jp]

Any man who gives a hooker 4300 dollars an hour is just too stupid to be in charge of anything.

[bigbore442001]

I know all of us have failed in the eyes of God in some way, shape and form but this is a different case. Sure I feel bad for his family but what irks me is the hypocrisy of it all.This goes beyond the average working man who went astray on his wife.

This man was elected by the people to act as a state executive and in the past as a man to enforce the laws of the state of NY. When he got involved in an organized prostitution ring he violated those laws as well as his contract with the people.

He should be impeached from office and should be placed on trial for the criminal offenses. He is not above the law in any way. That is the problem I see here in the East coast area. There is an underlying attitude that it is ok for political families like the Kennedys, Ciancis and the like to do such things because they create public service jobs or provide welfare services for a number of people. So it is ok for Ted Kennedy to be half drunk in public, accost people, ect because the family

Spitzer needs to break rocks for ten years to set an example of what should be done to corrupt public servants.

[brucew44guns]

This Governor just recently was really upset that a whole bunch of people jumped down his throat when he tried to give every illegal alien a valid New York drivers license. he finally had to back off, but from what I saw of him back then it really incensed him that the people spoke and shut him down. Oh well, he's got other matters to worry about now, at least he won't be cooking up Anti-Gun stuff all too quick. I like that notion.

[Pete44ru]

A dog's still a dog - no matter what the breed.

[gary rice]

Well, my MSN home page has a picture of Elliot Spitzer on it, says he has been linked with a prostitution ring. This is Hillarys buddy I believe, and he loves to talk the horrors of owning a gun as well. So maybe if these allegations stick, this will be one liberal governor who we won't hear from pretty soon, one can hope.

but this is his personal life we are talking about. nothing to do with business right? im being cynical, throw this moron out.

[Old Ironsights]

Well, my MSN home page has a picture of Elliot Spitzer on it, says he has been linked with a prostitution ring. This is Hillarys buddy I believe, and he loves to talk the horrors of owning a gun as well. So maybe if these allegations stick, this will be one liberal governor who we won't hear from pretty soon, one can hope.

but this is his personal life we are talking about. nothing to do with business right? im being cynical, throw this moron out.

Ahhh but you see, he made a critical error. He ran afoul of the Constitutional Clause most badly abused by the Democrats (and many Republicans too) in their attempts to justify this or that law.

He tried to transact buisness across State Lines in violation of Federal Laws based on the Interstate Commerce Clause.

Clinton only got an intern in his office in DC.

[JP_TX]

A little less than half of the American people (liberals) seem to be longing for powerful politicians to tell the other half (conservatives) what to do and restrict other peoples liberty.

ie: Don't own guns, don't hunt, don't eat what you like, don't smoke, don't drive a truck or suv, what kind of toilet you can use in your home, what kind of lightbulb you can buy, etc, etc. The list is endless but still growing.

As a result liberals wind up electing Kings and Queens, not public servants.

"The government that governs best, governs least."~Thomas Paine... was true, is true and will continue to be true.

We need to remember this in November.

[Old Ironsights]

To be fair JP, Republicans are also more than happy to tell other people what to do and restrict other peoples liberty...

THey just base their presonally desired restrictions on their Religious Background instead of ecoweenieism.

There are as many "Royal" Conservatives as Liberals - and far too few Constitutionalists.

The government that governs best, governs least - and the government that govern's least is no government at all.

[Scoutmaster]

It really surprises me that the press has taken off with this. They were so willing to turn their heads when the Great Stainmaker got caught with Monica.
I really hope we get to see what this extremely expensive piece of ...................... womanhood looks like. I'll bet she makes Monica look like a tree stump.
Don

[Blaine]

Another "Gotcha" in the big game........ Sad, ain't it?

[Ray Newman]

It's probably all part & parcel of Hillary's "vast right wing conspiracy" theory....

[336A]

I was telling the wife yesterday when I heard of this how I thought that Elliot Spitzer was squirrly and not to be trusted. When he was running for Governor all of his TV adds hid his receeding hair line. I immeadiately stated to the wife that if he has a complex problem with his hair line what other problems is he hiding. As already stated he is nothing more than a lousy hypocrit of the first order and needs to resign ASAP, and no I didn't vote for him either.

[Kismet]

I apologize that my first post* is likely to be a bit antagonistic.

If he is guilty burn him

JReed -

After reading your comment, I felt compelled to search this forum, and your posts in particular, for political topics regarding Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID). As I'm quite sure you know, Sen. Craig was in very nearly the same position. He preached a socially conservative message (gay-bashing would not be an unfair characterization) and yet PLED GUILTY to trying to pick up a man in an airport bathroom. At this point, Craig deserves even more scorn than Spitzer because he tried to sweep it under the rug, then refused to be accountable and resign. We will see what happens with Spitzer.

Amazingly, considering the volume of political drivel on this site, there was no thread devoted to Sen. Craig's failings (disclaimer...I just used the "search" feature for keyword "craig"). Nor, JReed, did you vehemently denounce Sen. Craig, who, as mentioned above, PLED GUILTY.

Quite honestly, I don't mean to single JReed out as the only person that appears to be slightly biased along political lines. If you are already angry about this post, you are probably the target of my frustration as well. The reason I called much of the political discussion here "drivel" is because it is so wildly partisan and extremist that it loses nearly any sense of being worthy of consideration by rational people (on either side of the fence). It is just petty, gleeful, often offensive, and often inaccurate bashing of the other side (blatantly racist laughs about Obama come immediately to mind).

Fortunately, there are people here that do, at least at times, recognize the reality of politics in America.

To be fair JP, Republicans are also more than happy to tell other people what to do and restrict other peoples liberty...

THey just base their presonally desired restrictions on their Religious Background instead of ecoweenieism.

Very true Old Ironsights, and I don't like governed by religious fundamentalists here in America any more than you like me chaining myself to a harbor seal in ANWR.

There are also people that preach tolerance and, hopefully, practice what they preach.

The whole event is very sad. Sad for his wife and family and sad for the people who put their trust in him. No good will come from this only [bad].

That said... I hope we don't give in the most base form of hypocrisy in bashing this guy who got caught with his pants down. My experience with human beings tells me a large portion of the men on this board have been at one time or another in an "unseemly" sexual situation.

I remember the story of Jesus coming upon a bunch of men who were getting ready to kill the town hooker by stoning... He told them that the one without sin should cast the first stone. They droped their weapons and went home. He then told them woman to go and sin no more.

So bash this poor sap all you want, but just take a look and see how clean your hands are. His marriage, the respect of his children and friends and his career are all down the crapper. I will pray for them all.

I agree Charles, while many people may like to see the fall of one like Spitzer, it does nothing to help fix the morass that is American politics.

So, if I may be so bold as to offer some advice from a moderate (what you all might call a liberal democrat)...
1) Please recognize that neither party has a lock or even, apparently, much of a grasp on the moral, ethical, constitutional, economic, or religious high ground. People of all stripes are worthy of praise and of scorn. It is easy to scorn those on the other side, but try to at least acknowledge when those whose ideas you generally support deserve that scorn and those whose ideas you don't support deserve praise. (In an effort to reconcile, I will go first... The surge has been effective and at this point, things are improving in Iraq. Elliot Spitzer has squandered the trust of the people and should resign.)

2) Try to argue your points without being personal (including your attacks on the two people most likely to be the next president - sorry if this is the first time you have heard it). I know that is difficult, and given the state of the country in the last 8 years I, too, have failed in that effort many times.

Many people here have sound arguments about their view of the Constitution and the role of religion in their public lives. But, the kind of flaming rhetoric that often passes for political discussion here is ridiculous. Believe it or not, many people who disagree with you have equally sound arguments.

Regards, Michael in NH

* I do promise that I am not a troll on this site looking to light up some conservatives. I grew up hunting and after many years not being able to hunt I am getting back into it. I got on to this site because I was looking at various leverguns - I ended up with a BLR .308, thanks. I am also a prosecutor and try to make a living putting bad guys away, giving so-so guys a chance to get on the right track, and cutting slack to good people that deserve it.

[stretch]

His political career is over.....His hypocrisy is what did him in. He's
not the first politician to fool around, and surely won't be the last.
He prosecuted some hi-profile prostitution rings, and ran on the platform
that he'd root out corruption. Then he uses taxpayer money on an
excuse of a business trip to go and be with a hooker for over $4Gs.
He's done - and rightly so.

I feel badly for his wife and daughters, though. Why these wives don't
slug these guys on TV is beyond me...........

He'll hopefully find out he's not quite as far above the law as he
thinks he is.

[Scoutmaster]

I'd still rather be in Gov. Spitzers shoes than in ex-Gov. of New Jersey McGreevey's loafers.
Don

[ursavus.elemensis]

Not me. Ex-Gov. of New Jersey McGreevey was not paying $5,000 an hour for the sex he was getting. Like it or not, he was not paying for sex. And, why you think that Spitzer's disgusting slime ball move was somehow more honroable than McGreevey's is beyond me. Completely beyond me. Bottom line: If you are not bothered by the way that Eliot Spitzer left his WIFE and three DAUGHTERS in NY state and went to Washington, D.C. to sex it up with a high-priced HOOKER than anything you have to say about McGreevey is irrelevant (you might want to check out an old text called the Ten Commandments). Anyone who thinks that heterosexual adultery is better than homosexual adultery, is in serious need of a few hours of getting in touch with your spiritual roots. The Bible might be a good place to start. Find me, please, the part where He says it is better to be a heterosexual adulterer than to be a homosexual. Find THAT for me, please, I really want to see that part of His word.

[Old Ironsights]

Hey Kismet. You the same Kismet I seem to recall from the FSP forum (which I don't lurk at often enough...)?

I guess from my POV the difference between Craig's Hypocrisy and Spiter's Hypocrisy is Craig never personally prosecuted anyone for being gay.

He also supported more "general" freedom issues, like RKBA, than Spitzer ever did.

From My Libertarian POV, I could not care less what kinks pepole want to pay for... but PROSECUTORIAL HYPOCRISY is, IMO far worse than simple bigotry. It is the abuse of Government Power for Power's sake.

[ursavus.elemensis]

Right on, Ironsights, right on. Whether it is the Bible or natural laws of man, it is those who oppose liberty and use the power of their government posts to suppress others that most worry me, and most offend Him.

[Jeeps]

Welcome to the board Kismet

Yes, a helping force of the anger directed at Spitzer is because he is liberal.

If he caught any of us with a hooker he would hammer us into the ground
and lick up the blood, I have no doubt of that.

He is a gun grabber and trying to give illegal law breakers driving liscences,
there is no excuse for this and what he has done of late.

He and people like him are trying to turn this country into a socialist state. Please
trust me this is not what we want, nor can America survive it.

Lord knows our political system is full of hypocrits (both sides of the isle).

When "the people" find a politician being less than honest he should be taken
out of office. I could care less about an apologetic speech, I don't want to
hear it. It fixes nothing. Our country has enough problem than to have to
constantly worry about watching our backs around politicians, it's getting
down right silly the way they are acting.

Also, I must reinforce Jeremy's earlier statement:

IF HE IS GUILTY, BURN HIM

Any politician who was put in place by the TRUST of the people deserves
no less.

It's supposed to be a higher calling, an honor to be respected, not used for
personal purposes.

Our government has turned into a self serving machine that cannot stop
itself. Our only hope is to get someone into office that will change things.

I think it's gonna haunt me to the end of my days too see Ron Paul come
and go. I honestly believe a Constitutionalist is our only hope for the American
way of life.

[LeverBob]

Poor Elliot...he transported a woman across state lines for the purpose of illicit sex....HMMMM....that's a violation of the MANN ACT, which is a felony.

I don't think he has a pot to p*ss in. An attorney general for the state of nuyawk should know about such things, shouldn't he? For 6 YEARS?

Did it as Governor of N.Y. State too?

He's Toast!!!

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...maybe, just maybe....this will be the headlong fall he needs to finally repent & change his ways.

I'll be praying that the schmuck gets saved.

LeverBob

[pharmseller]

He seems like a smart guy, smart enough to know that he would get caught, which begs the question: did he do it (get caught) on purpose? Was this a case of self abuse?
Of course he was arrogant, but we're talking years of this activity and tens of thousands of dollars. He had to know he would get caught eventually.
Sure, he did it to himself (no pun intended) but I think he knew he would go down (again no pun intended) for it.
Nothing else makes sense, unless you support the idea that he was so arrogant that he thought he'd never get caught.
Also, did the wife know and keep quiet? How could she not know? Maybe she's a lot like Hillary, willing to accept the stuff to keep the lifestyle. I'll bet she knew.

Quinn

[LeverBob]

Nah Quinn...he thought he could pull a Bubba & get away with it (heheheheh!). He's a big fan of Bubba & likewise has no common sense, ethics, nor morality.

Pataki is another putz out of the same mold (as in spoor). They have been trying to pull a fast one (Heh!) on the gun shops, but fizzled in their efforts. There is nothing like a failure to humble a guy...I hope they continue to do so!

Respectfully Submitted to the Brethren...

LeverBob

[AmBraCol]

After reading your comment, I felt compelled to search this forum, and your posts in particular, for political topics regarding Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID). As I'm quite sure you know, Sen. Craig was in very nearly the same position. He preached a socially conservative message (gay-bashing would not be an unfair characterization) and yet PLED GUILTY to trying to pick up a man in an airport bathroom. At this point, Craig deserves even more scorn than Spitzer because he tried to sweep it under the rug, then refused to be accountable and resign. We will see what happens with Spitzer.

When did the Craig incident go down? That may have been hashed over on the former forum. This one did not go active until towards the end of last year, being mothballed between shut downs of the former forum. So a search for the Craig incident here proves nothing if it didn't happen while this particular site was up and running.

Yes, we have a strong conservative bent on this forum. So? It is one of the last places left for people to voice non-PC ideas and opinions. I agree, if we fall hard on a Democrat for moral failings then we should fall hard on Republicans as well. Craig and that other guy (Florida? don't recall for SURE where he's from) pretending to be conservatives while living a Democrat lifestyle are exactly why I am not a Republican. They are NO LONGER a conservative party. As long as they are pro-abortion and pro-sodomite and anti-private firearms in ANY amount - they are NOT conservative nor do they deserve my support. They fooled away years of control in the US Congress and Whitehouse, raising taxes and doing little to restore the rule of the US Constitution.

But I digress. Merely searching this particular iteration of the Leverguns.com forum is not sufficient to make the charge that you are making. You'd have to have access to the former forum (which is not under our control) in order to do any comprehensive search on the Craig incident.

[Grizz]

spitzer put martha stewart in jail for nothing indictable...

spitzer knowingly and willfully broke federal laws because he thinks he is above the law, the law applies to martha but not to elliot...

he's probably right, the (in)justice department will probably go the extra seven hundred miles to keep his dirty butt out of the slammer...

because the truth is spitzer and his kind actually are above the law.

[Kismet]

Hey Kismet. You the same Kismet I seem to recall from the FSP forum (which I don't lurk at often enough...)?

I guess from my POV the difference between Craig's Hypocrisy and Spiter's Hypocrisy is Craig never personally prosecuted anyone for being gay.

He also supported more "general" freedom issues, like RKBA, than Spitzer ever did.

From My Libertarian POV, I could not care less what kinks pepole want to pay for... but PROSECUTORIAL HYPOCRISY is, IMO far worse than simple bigotry. It is the abuse of Government Power for Power's sake.

Sorry Ironsights, if FSP stands for Free State Project then I'm afraid I'm not the same guy.

Regarding Craig v. Spitzer, I guess I just disagree as to the respective significance of their hypocrisy. Craig was a U.S. Senator for God's sakes - he wrote laws and established government that everyone would be required to live by. He got to where he was by projecting a certain image of himself to his constituents and the nation. He and Spitzer are nearly identical in their hypocrisy, other issues be darned. My point, of course, was simply that people have a tendency to excoriate "others" but turn a blind eye towards their own party (for lack a better term). I think that is a real danger in politics today. If conservatives had stood up to GWB, the government might not have expanded astronomically in the last eight years.

Right on, Ironsights, right on. Whether it is the Bible or natural laws of man, it is those who oppose liberty and use the power of their government posts to suppress others that most worry me, and most offend Him.

Sir, thanks for proving my point in your last two posts that you are just as interested in telling others how to act as any "liberal" is in telling you how to act.

When did the Craig incident go down? That may have been hashed over on the former forum.

Yes, we have a strong conservative bent on this forum. So? It is one of the last places left for people to voice non-PC ideas and opinions. I agree, if we fall hard on a Democrat for moral failings then we should fall hard on Republicans as well. Craig and that other guy (Florida? don't recall for SURE where he's from) pretending to be conservatives while living a Democrat lifestyle are exactly why I am not a Republican. They are NO LONGER a conservative party. As long as they are pro-abortion and pro-sodomite and anti-private firearms in ANY amount - they are NOT conservative nor do they deserve my support. They fooled away years of control in the US Congress and Whitehouse, raising taxes and doing little to restore the rule of the US Constitution.

Paul, I specifically put in my search method to disclose the potential shortcomings. The Craig thing broke in August. I did check that JReed, who I obviously singled out a bit, was an active member and posting during that time. But, if the Craig thing was lost on a previous server I apologize.

Regarding the rest of your post... I don't have any problem with the conservative bent of the site. I merely wanted to point out (something I also point out to people more in my circle of friends) that many of the problems with politics in America stems from how things are said as much as what is said. Depending on your definition, non-PC may be entirely appropriate, or may be simply offensive, ignorant, and unproductive - something even most conservatives would find inappropriate.

My final thought is that most people today, as clearly demonstrated by some of the posters on this site, have confused social conservatism with political conservatism. The Republicans long ago sold out to the social conservatives and it ultimately may be their downfall. Small, accountable government that generally butts out of people's lives (political conservatism) is not in any fashion religious (generally the root of social conservatism, though admittedly not always). I have no more interest in living with a government that defers to the bible as I have in living with a government that defers to the Koran.

In Paul's post the problem is evident. The Constitution says nothing about abortion (which is actually the conservative's point)! It says nothing about sodomy! Yet somehow Paul has suggested that conservative government should concern itself with these things. Political conservatism somehow got lost when it allowed itself to become intertwined with social conservatism. People can debate small versus medium versus large government. People cannot debate with someone, however, who is in the center of God's grace because such a person has no interest in what other humans might say.

Finally (seriously this time), regarding Paul's suggestion that any restriction on the right to bear arms whatsoever is not conservative, does that mean that any whackadoodle murderer should be able to walk out of prison and buy a gun? Because that viewpoint is never going to prevail and only makes defenders of the 2nd Amendment sound absurd.

Michael in NH

[Bramble]

Any man who gives a hooker 4300 dollars an hour is just too stupid to be in charge of anything.

I just for a fleeting moment, would like to have a spare $4300 to discover just what a hooker can do for that sum, other than build me a rifle

[AmBraCol]

Finally (seriously this time), regarding Paul's suggestion that any restriction on the right to bear arms whatsoever is not conservative, does that mean that any whackadoodle murderer should be able to walk out of prison and buy a gun? Because that viewpoint is never going to prevail and only makes defenders of the 2nd Amendment sound absurd.

Michael in NH

You've no problem with the taking of innocent lives by "physicians". You've no problem with un-natural behavior that has been the start of the downfall of other civilizations before ours. And yet you've a problem with people having the means to self defense. It was not until the 20th century that the idea of permanent removal of a person's rights by the state was started. John Wesley Hardin, for example, got out of prison and picked up a pistol almost immediately. The problem is not the possession of weapons. The problem is what is done with them.

And if you don't understand the Biblical underpinnings of our nation, you need to go back and do some study. To believe that our nation's founders would smile upon the chaotic morass that we've devoloped is a stretch of the imagination. I will not deify them. Nor will I deify the United States of America. However, they had a lot more going for them than the current "living document" crowd. What happened with Craig and Spitzer and countless others is a mere symptom of the loss of direction our nation has been experiencing since we cut the foundation out from under ourselves.

Actually, moral and political conservatism go hand in hand. Like was said by one of the founders, "Our constitution is designed for the governing of a moral and religious people. It is not fit for the governing of any other." Please pardon the paraphrase. Indeed, the freedoms recognized by our constitution are only properly handled by a people who know right from wrong and live accordingly. And since we, in our infinite collective wisdom, have decided there IS no right or wrong, there is no surprise in the discovery that we are sinking into chaos.

If you eschew the Bible and its influence on the US' history and law, you'd just as well toss everything out and start from scratch. And what you'll have left will be nothing at all like our nation was set up to be.

Research it. Research it well. Attempt to show through the original documents that our nation has no Biblical roots. It can only be done via the vast rewriting of our history. Oh. Wait! That's already happened, hasn't it?

If we throw away our past, how shall we know which way we should head? It was our solid foundation built on the Christian faith that set our nation in the position she once held. It is an abandonment of those foundations that is leading us down the path of our own destruction. We will not fall to foreign forces, not until we first destroy ourselves from within.

[ursavus.elemensis]

Following links allows one to find a lot of good food for thought on the Internet. I like this, for example: "What do the Christian Sixgunners Believe? ... They believe that the right to express one's ideas should not be repressed, even if those ideas are contrary to their own." Good stuff.

[tman]

it's sorta like we are on the two opposing sidelines of a football game. we make excuses for the play of our side and scream foul at the reff. when the other side does the same. we look the other way when a president lies about invading a soveign country. but demonizes the one who lied about sex. we honor the president who attacks the second ammendment, but scream bloody murder when the pres. violates the 1st and 3rd. cut taxes at the federal level and let the middle class make up the shortfall at the state and local levels. sell the country industrial base out to the wta. until we hold the politician accountable for his actions, regardless of party affliation, it's never gonna change. eight years of corruption from the bush adminstration is gonna give us eight corrupt years of the hillary admin. the lines between the two are really blurring. pick your poision, do u want it in the head or the heart; or, does it really matter?

[AmBraCol]

Following links allows one to find a lot of good food for thought on the Internet. I like this, for example: "What do the Christian Sixgunners Believe? ... They believe that the right to express one's ideas should not be repressed, even if those ideas are contrary to their own." Good stuff.

Indeed it is.

I trust you've not found evidence that we live to the contrary?

[ursavus.elemensis]

I trust you've not found evidence that we live to the contrary?

I have no complaints.

This is a nice site, with many genuinely good folks, and lots of great advice about lots of stuff.

[AmBraCol]

eight years of corruption from the bush adminstration is gonna give us eight corrupt years of the hillary admin. the lines between the two are really blurring. pick your poision, do u want it in the head or the heart; or, does it really matter?

Personally, I believe it's time we kicked them all out and started fresh. "The tree of freedom must be regularly watered with the blood of tyrants, which is its natural manure." Don't recall who said it, but it's true. As long as the current main parties can keep us bickering over things, the longer we'll live under oppression instead of freedom. And if you think my statement of oppression is over stated, take a look at what the BATFE and the IRA do to citizens of our nation on a regular basis.

We need another amendment to the US Constitution whereby every new law must be written stating what part of the Constitution authorizes its creation.

But we, as a nation, are more interested in the latest hollyweird scandal or American Idol dustup than we are in that which gave us the freedom to enjoy such inane activities.

[AmBraCol]

I trust you've not found evidence that we live to the contrary?

I have no complaints.

This is a nice site, with many genuinely good folks, and lots of great advice about lots of stuff.

I'm glad. It ain't easy and I'm not perfect. Nor are any of the others I know. Thanks for the reminder. I'd not been over there in a while. Place is kind of dusty. We could use some more articles and ??? Contributions of material for publication there are always welcome.

[Slick]

[S.B.]

Too bad the hooker he's linked with wasn't Hillary?