Winchester action lengths questions ...

[86er]

What falls between the 94 and 92 in terms of action length? How does the overall strength compare?

[Buck Elliott]

In the Winchester line, nothing "falls between" the 92 and the 94, in length..

Mechanically, the 92s are "stronger" than the 94, but the 86s (or 71s) are stronger than either...

[86er]

So where do 73's and 76's come in?

[Buck Elliott]

73s are about the same length as 94s, but (along with the 76s) are a toggle-link design, and are chambered only for revolver-length cartridges, to 1.6" Max. overall length.. 76s are considerably longer than the 73s, and are also limited as to cartridge length. there is no seperate, internal cartidge stop in either the 73 or 76, so cartridges are the same length as the carrier/lifter, to allow proper feeding...

The 73s and 76s are not nearly as strong as any of the later Browning-designed Winchester lever-action rifles, but are certainly strong enough for the cartridges for which they were designed..

[Griff]

What Buck said about the '73 goes for the 1866 and Henry also... tho' those were both chambered for rimfire cartridges. IIRC, the 1895 falls between the 1894 and the 1886 in action length.

[Pete44ru]

Although, I'll WAG that the relatively new Montana Armory Model 89 (.500S&W Mag) action, which is sort of a cross between a Model 86 & 92, might just fit between the 92 & 94 - sizewise.

IIRC, Buck's had his hands on one, or something similar - no ?




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[Ji in Hawaii]

As far as length the 94 fits in between the short 92 and the long 86 but as stated the 94 the weakest of the 3 though more than strong enough for the 30/30. When chambered in the 454 Casull (was that you Buck?) the 92 could handle the pressures but the 94 could not. Yes the Big Horn Armory 89 fits right between the 86 and 92 in length and numerically though maybe the strongest of the three.
I'd LOVE a model 89 in 50 S&W great for anything in NA.

[86er]

So could one of them in 357 Mag be lengthened to 360DW or 357 Max?

[Ji in Hawaii]

So could one of them in 357 Mag be lengthened to 360DW or 357 Max?

The 92 is too short for the 357 max, and the 86 too long and heavy to bother with in 357 max. That leaves the 94. I have read that the 94 cannot handle the pressure of the max (40,000 psi) but the 30/30 is 42,000 psi (http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm) so I don't see a problem. I read on another forum of someone lengthening the chamber of a 357 magnum model 94 to 357 max and modifying the carrier for the max, and having success using handloads. I have to find where I saw it and get back to you.

[86er]

Well my 94 is 360 DW, but can I do that in a 73 or something else?

[Old Savage]

If you want a 35 Cal 94 do a 35-30.

[Buck Elliott]

SAAMI maximum pressure for the .357 Max is 48,000 c.u.p., which is Not the same as p.s.i.... .30-30 and .32 Winchester Spl. run at maximum pressure of 38,000 p.s.i.. The .375 Winchester is rated at 52,000 c.u.p., which caused Winchester to beef up the receiver of the Model 94, which may or may not have been necessary..
A number of "standard" 94s have been converted to .357 Maximum, with no apparent difficulties..
Way back in the late 60s and early 70s, several 94s were chambered for .30-, .32- and .35-caliber cartridges based on cut-down and necked-down .444 Marlin cases, and loaded using low-end .308 and .358 Winchester data.. These were the precursors of the .307 and .356 Winchester rounds, which Winchester/U.S.R.A.C. housed in the Big Bore version of their 94...

The .454 Casull rifle I built is based on the Old 86 Winchester idea and geometry, scaled down somewhat for that cartridge, and also the .475 and (at the time..) .500 Linebaugh cartridges, both standard and "maximum" versions..

The folks at Big Horn Armory used a similar approach in designing their .500 S&W Model 89..

Both my rifle and the BHA version have receivers that fall somewhere between the 92 and 86 in length..

The 73 Winchester cannot accommodate the .357 Maximum, because of both length and pressure issues.. Same goes for the 76...

[Pete44ru]

If you want a 35 Cal 94 do a 35-30.

FWIW, Fred - I've found the best .35 cal, in a Winchester 94, to be the .356 Win - In fact, it may very well be the best-performing chambering in a Winchester Model 94, period.



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[Ysabel Kid]

Well my 94 is 360 DW, but can I do that in a 73 or something else?

I just don't think the toggle-link could ever handle that kind of pressure. The design, even with modern steel, is just not up to the task.

[AJMD429]

If you want a 35 Cal 94 do a 35-30.

Couldn't you also do a .35 Remington in a 94...?

[Buck Elliott]

.35 Remington is possible, but why, when the 94-compatible .356 is arguably better, all around..?

That said, we know that the .357 Maximum has been done, and that it works.. Many questions like this one arise from someone wanting to use the same ammunition in both rifle and revolver, as a matter of practicality..

[86er]

I am happy with the 94 in 360DW but it is my boys rifle. I was just thinking of something different for my own. I do have a 356 Win I am using and I have it loaded down to 35 Rem ballistics. It is a pleasure to shoot and has plenty more to give if I need it.

[MrMurphy]

Is the '73 really strong enough for a factory .357 load. Not the 'explode a Ruger" hot load, but say factory +P stuff?

I'm not a reloader, but i've always wondered since I like the '73 action but would shoot factory ammo, i.e not mouse fanny burp loads.

[Buck Elliott]

A. Uberti & Co (now owned by Beretta) has made and sold Thousands of 73s, chambered for the .357 Magnum cartridge. I know of many of these rifles that have fired countless full-house magnum rounds without a hitch or a bobble, and are still going strong.

The folks at Uberti even went so far as to catalog a 73, chambered for .44 mag., but I have yet to see one in the flesh..

My own Uberti 73 has spewed forth thousands of rounds of "+P" .45 Colt loads, pushing 250-grain hard-cast slugs @ 1500 fps, with a specifically-tailored recipe..

[MrMurphy]

I've shot one in .357 years back, but I didn't know if they were restricted to mousefart loads they usually seem to use in CAS or not, since the one I was shooting was loaded with .38s.

[Jsmyers]

I've got a related question:

Can anybody tell me the length of travel for the Winchester 1894 bolt? In other words, what is the longest unfired cartridge it will extract unfired (ignoring feeding up from the magazine)? I don't have access to mine at the moment to measure it.

-Thanks