Lead in ammo "very inert"

[damienph]

From the February 2013 Guns Magazine. Pg 68

In a column by Emily Miller of the Washington Times last September 27th, research scientist Don Saba explained the difference between the lead in bullets and the lead in paint that is harmful to children. "The lead that is used in ammunition is metallic lead and is a very inert material that does not dissolve in water and is not absorbed by plants or animals," Dr. Saba said. "There is a tremendous toxicity difference between highly inert metallic lead used in ammunition and the highly toxic lead compounds used in legacy leaded paints." Dr. Saba noted that groups intent on banning traditional ammunition made from lead components are deliberately trying to confuse and scare the public into thinking they are the same. - Courtesy NSSF

Deliberately trying to confuse and scare the public? Hmm... You think?

[jeepnik]

Prior to the ban of lead ammo in many areas of California, this was brought up. It simply comes down to the old saying. Don't confuse me with the facts. Sadly most voters and legislators cast their votes based on emotion, not fact.

[Old Savage]

Thanks for the info'

Most liberal voters are sucking off the govt. one way or another.

[El Chivo]

except when it leaves the muzzle

There's always a contingent trying to get shooting ranges closed down due to the lead in the ground, leaching into the water table, things like that.

However I read one report that lead gets coated with lead oxide which prevents any significant seepage from the interior of the bullet.

[JerryB]

Just like lead shot on the lake bottom killing waterfowl. It's all about control.

[Blaine]

Just like lead shot on the lake bottom killing waterfowl. It's all about control.

(Please don't smack me) I really thought that might be true.....

[Griff]

When the facts don't support your hypthesis, LIE!

[Hagler]

Gents,

I have heard that lead water pipes don't really poison anyone, after the inside of the pipe oxidizes.

Shawn

[geobru]

Just like lead shot on the lake bottom killing waterfowl. It's all about control.

The problem with lead shot was that dabbling ducks like mallards ingested the shot as they fed in marshes that had been hunted. This was an interesting link that discussed this subject.

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/bird ... stract.htm

Lead might be inert, but a friend of mine got lead poisoning from digging lead out at a local range and then smelting it. The Dr's figured it was either dust that he inhaled or he got it on his hands. He had evacuation fans installed when he was smelting, but didn't wear a mask when digging it out of the bullet traps.

[765x53]

Birds have gizzards that use grit to grind anything softer, including lead shot, into digestible powder.

[El Chivo]

Just like lead shot on the lake bottom killing waterfowl. It's all about control.

Yes but it's also panic, from people who are just this side of hysterical all the time.

One radio host here was telling about a school's show and tell where the kids were supposed to bring in an element from the periodic table. One kid brought in a thermometer with mercury in it, and the school went on lockdown.

The mercury was still in the thermometer, but they still went crazy.

I remember rolling blobs of mercury around the table as a kid.

[mikld]

As I understand it, there was no vote when CA decided to close 1/3 of the state to lead bullets (at least I don't remember it being on any ballot). If I remember correctly, a group of tree huggers/buzzard lovers convinced the DFG to close the area where the buzzards live. No science, no study, just "save that regal bird from extinction at the hands of those dastardly hunters". And the DFG caved...

[olyinaz]

The guy who got lead poisoning from digging bullets out of a berm makes the point that lead is still a toxic material. If we had a substitute that's as good I bet we'd all switch in a nano second without a complaint because it's about the perfection of the material to our uses and the low cost - not some innate love of lead. I just wish science would come up with that substitute, even if it means getting creative with something like a polymer compound with tungsten dust in it. Heck, I dunno - just think out of the box fer Pete's sake and give us an option!

It's not the bullet lying on/in the ground safely passing time that's the trouble, it's all the other things - bird gizzards, dissolving in acids, manipulation of soil that causes airborne lead dust to fly up etc. - that come back to haunt us over time because lead IS a toxic material. Hey, I hate to say it, but it IS and there's no way to get around that.

So my suggestion since we're not going to win this fight over the long haul is to get cracking on finding a substitute. It's like second hand smoke - no one has removed your right to smoke, they've simply said that they will not tolerate your smoke floating into their lungs because there's a small chance it can harm them. If we remove this hugely blown out of proportion threat to non-shooters it just gives them one less thing to b'tch and moan about regarding shooting and hunting.

My 2¢ and worth less since you didn't pay that.

Oly

[AJMD429]

The legitimate "environmental movement" is unfortunately discredited by the blatant distortion and out-and-out lying which some have stooped to in the name of "protecting the environment".

The same thing has happened to the legitimate concerns for children's safety, the legitimate concerns about poverty, violent crime, health-care costs, and so on - in each case, the government gets involved, with their raw-power and coersion, and the 'advocates' immediately start corrupting the legitimate cause to empower themselves or further their own agendas.

Then, if someone like us points out the falsehoods present in some aspects of the 'environmental movement', we're accused of "not caring about the environment". It isn't about who "cares more" about the environment; it's about actually protecting the environment, and most hunters are far more motivated to assure the long-term stability and protection of the environment than are the non-hunting folks, in general - the reason is because for hunter's, it's about protecting a lifestyle, whereas for many non-hunters, it's just a temporary fad taken on to adorn their self-image and impress their friends.

[Rusty]

Don't confuse me with facts, it makes me feel better.

[Griff]

The problem with lead shot was that dabbling ducks like mallards ingested the shot as they fed in marshes that had been hunted. This was an interesting link that discussed this subject.
http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/bird ... stract.htm
Lead might be inert, but a friend of mine got lead poisoning from digging lead out at a local range and then smelting it. The Dr's figured it was either dust that he inhaled or he got it on his hands. He had evacuation fans installed when he was smelting, but didn't wear a mask when digging it out of the bullet traps.

Unless he didn't wash his hands before ingesting food, it was most likely the lead dust when collecting it, or the fumes when smelting. It's why when smelting or casting I do so in a well ventilated area. Among the tests my doc does annually is a lead level blood test. That doesn't fully protect me, but... it's a good indicator. And in 25+ years of casting, I've shown no change in my lead levels. I generally only cast when the ambient temps are moderate... mid-50s and above. I don't cast when it's much above 90º as who needs the extra heat in the barn! I keep to the moderate temps so that I can get good air circulation without affecting my pots too much.

[damienph]

Just like lead shot on the lake bottom killing waterfowl. It's all about control.

The problem with lead shot was that dabbling ducks like mallards ingested the shot as they fed in marshes that had been hunted. This was an interesting link that discussed this subject.

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/bird ... stract.htm

Lead might be inert, but a friend of mine got lead poisoning from digging lead out at a local range and then smelting it. The Dr's figured it was either dust that he inhaled or he got it on his hands. He had evacuation fans installed when he was smelting, but didn't wear a mask when digging it out of the bullet traps.

I am certainly all for enacting whatever legislation necessary to prevent dabbling ducks (heck, ALL waterfowl) from smelting lead and inhaling the fumes. Some species just need to be protected from themselves...

[El Chivo]

Gents,

I have heard that lead water pipes don't really poison anyone, after the inside of the pipe oxidizes.

Shawn

Lead water pipes have carried our water for a long time - centuries maybe. The root word for "Plumbing" means "Lead" (Spanish for lead is plomb). Yet mankind didn't die off.

[soon 2 retire]

How much lead is still in the soil at Civil War battle sites? Have there been any problems?

Bob in Friday Harbor

[M. M. Wright]

I'm with Griff on this except I am much older, 73 and I've been casting for 50 years. At one point I had a Magma casting machine and a huge smelter, even worked for a commercial caster for a time. Had my lead levels tested a couple years ago and I am clean. I think it's all just a bunch of ________!