Decision Time

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:00 am

I'm trying to decide on a new purchase. One or the other type of decision.

An AR type, preferrably in 5.56 with a rail vs. just permanently mounted iron sights as with the military types.

Or, a Miroku 1885 in .32-40, a design and chambering that I've hankered over for a number of years.

The only argument I can think of in favor of the AR is the likelihood that it may be banned for sale in the next few years. So, what am I missing? Oh, and don't give me "...it's fun..." for an answer, it ain't my style of "fun".

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:30 am

Well, I have spent a great deal of time since the election trying to dispell the alarmist fringe.
I think I would go for the AR thing.
Not that I think you may not be able to get one, but it may be significantly more troublesome to do so.
There is also the " grandfather clause " to consider.
You bought at a time that was different from this time period, have not proved yourself to be irresponsible with it; there is no reason to deprive you of ownership now.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:34 am

Get the 1885

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:39 am

Do not listen to OS, he just likes to take contrary positions to mine.

shooter · Post by **shooter** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:06 am

Griff, I just purchased an AR a couple months ago in anticipation of this election. I've never been a fan as far as having fun shooting them. Like you, it ain't my kinda fun. I do appreciate them for their practical value as a survival/battle type rifle, which is why I bought it instead of some other guns I've had a hankering for. Not that I don't have fun shooting just about any type of firearm, but an AR is not on the top of my list. It is strictly my TEOTWAWKI gun that I'll practice with to gain familiarity. I say go for it. If you never need it, great. You can buy the levergun later. If you do ever need it, you'll be glad you have one.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:11 am

I would buy the 1885 right now and a stripped AR lower ASAP.
The stripped lower shouldn't cost over $100 and you can finish it at your leisure.
Jack

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:17 am

Old Savage wrote:Get the 1885

+1

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:44 am

Every American should own an AR. The 1885 most likely will be available whenever you want it down the road. Can't say that about an AR right now.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:59 am

The AR is a militia gun for some of us and nothing else. I imagine that the .32-40 will "buy" you an AR if you really need one.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:20 am

So you buy the AR, .gov decides that the Clinton gun ban forgot the word ownership and said .gov requires you to turn them in.

Far fetched? Let's see who the pres puts in the SCOTUS this time around.

Get the 85

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:21 am

jhrosier wrote:I would buy the 1885 right now and a stripped AR lower ASAP.
The stripped lower shouldn't cost over $100 and you can finish it at your leisure.

Yep...!

Better yet, get two or three stripped lowers, and when you sell all but one (or all of them, if you prefer), in a year or so, the profit can fund the rest.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:44 am

jhrosier wrote:I would buy the 1885 right now and a stripped AR lower ASAP.
The stripped lower shouldn't cost over $100 and you can finish it at your leisure.
Jack

This.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:19 am

Hmmmm,

Well Griff, I'm in the middle. I'm not young enough to march around practicing to be a soldier. I'm too fat and arthritic to do much of that and so I'm not overly concerned about TEOTWAWKI scenarios.

So, I'm going to squat squarely on the fence and say ...............................................................>

Buy 'em both.

Oh and I do have a battle rifle, it's just not a plastic Mattel toy jam-a-matic :

Joe

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:17 am

J Miller wrote:...Oh and I do have a battle rifle, it's just not a plastic Mattel toy jam-a-matic :

Aren't HKs great?

Oh, wait... this isn't about me...

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:20 am

Buying stripped lowers is all fine and dandy, but what if the uppers and rest of the parts you need to finish it are outlawed in the next 4 years of Obummer?

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:28 am

TedH wrote:Buying stripped lowers is all fine and dandy, but what if the uppers and rest of the parts you need to finish it are outlawed in the next 4 years of Obummer?

True, but that is much harder than "outlawing" the serial numbered reciever.

They will have to argue against Precedent.

Not impossible, but harder... and it will take more time.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:51 am

Old Ironsights wrote:
TedH wrote:Buying stripped lowers is all fine and dandy, but what if the uppers and rest of the parts you need to finish it are outlawed in the next 4 years of Obummer?
True, but that is much harder than "outlawing" the serial numbered reciever.

They will have to argue against Precedent.

Not impossible, but harder... and it will take more time.

I guess I would just figure, heck I want them both, so just get the one you can still get now, and the other later that's not in danger of becoming outlawed.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:02 pm

Yep. But the Lower is the "important" part.

Once you have that, you can build your System into whatever you want it to be... which will be available longer than the complete guns/lowers will be.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:13 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:Yep. But the Lower is the "important" part.

Once you have that, you can build your System into whatever you want it to be... which will be available longer than the complete guns/lowers will be.

Probably time to remind everyone that the ATF ruled last time (Clinton gun ban) that the weapon had to be assembled at time of purchase to be considered grandfathered for the purposes of banned features. So, you could still take your lower and add the parts to make what was a then legal AR but you were not allowed to assemble it in such a way that it violated the ban in place ... remember the banned feature count. The burden of proof was, of course, on you to prove that it was assembled before September 1994 if it had banned features.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:28 pm

See Griff avoid all this - get the 1885, a 357 92 and another SAA.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:35 pm

I'd be thinking 38-55....

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:54 pm

TedH wrote:Every American should own an AR. The 1885 most likely will be available whenever you want it down the road. Can't say that about an AR right now.

Word for word, thats how I feel.

If you do decide on an AR, The LE Colts are the best for the money. ------Sixgun

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:58 pm

Thanks for the additional points to ponder.

The "Minutemen" @ Concord were not all fit, young men. Marchin' and playin' soldieer ain't for me, but defense of hearth & home might require more than just me and my M-1!

Sixgun wrote:If you do decide on an AR, The LE Colts are the best for the money. ------Sixgun

It was one of several that I was lookin' at.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:59 pm

BlaineG wrote:I'd be thinking 38-55....

No .38-55 ammo, lots of .32-40. And mold. 2 points in its favor.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:25 pm

Playing soldier is not for me either so I will offer a piece of advice from a kindred spirit,
I use 20 round magazines in my Daewoo & CAR15.
I only load 18 rds. in them.
Works for me.
I have 30 rd mags
I carry 20 rd mags.

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:44 pm

As much as I like my ARs (which is ALOT), if the sole reason that you are considering one is because they may not be available after the next assault weapons ban; I would go with the 1885. If another ban does go into effect, I believe that having "pre-ban" stripped lowers won't make any difference. I believe that the language of the ban (next time) will be clear enough that we will not be able to purchase any parts and most probably will be required by law to turn in semi-auto and hi-cap firearms and magazines, with stiff penalties for non-compliance.

It will take longer to lose the rest of our firearms; depending upon how quickly the Supreme Court is filled by "progressive" judges. Buy what you want now and enjoy it now.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:54 pm

S.A.S.S. must have a mall ninja / wild bunch class now ???

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:44 pm

Old Savage wrote:See Griff avoid all this - get the 1885, a 357 92 and another SAA.

I think Old Savage nailed it!

with me Im looking for a colyer mag for my 88 308, it holds 7 or 8 rounds

ollogger

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:36 pm

The 1885 in 32/40. I have also seen a 16" barreled version in CDNN. They look really tempting. I just cant seem to want an AR15. Was gonna buy a Stag Arms lower for $300 but would rarther buy another 22 or 357 pistol or lever . Todd

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:47 pm

Griff wrote:
Sixgun wrote:If you do decide on an AR, The LE Colts are the best for the money. ------Sixgun
It was one of several that I was lookin' at.

Griff,
Yep, the M4 version---collapsible stock, full quad rail, free floating barrel, flip up rear and front sights----The Colt 6940...mine will put 10 shots in an inch and will bust clay birds at 500 meters....with the 69 gr. Sierra HPBT mach bullet.--------Sixgun

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:50 pm

If it weren't so durn expensive, the new .223/.308 Colt Lower looks pretty cool...

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:55 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Griff wrote:
Sixgun wrote:If you do decide on an AR, The LE Colts are the best for the money. ------Sixgun
It was one of several that I was lookin' at.
Griff,
Yep, the M4 version---collapsible stock, full quad rail, free floating barrel, flip up rear and front sights----The Colt 6940...mine will put 10 shots in an inch and will bust clay birds at 500 meters....with the 69 gr. Sierra HPBT mach bullet.--------Sixgun

10 shots into an inch at 500 M?

I'm impressed, and promise never, ever to make you angry.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:31 pm

ollogger - at 308 range you can just put another in the chamber or another mag - at 357 range you can just keep shoving them in the side of the 92.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:57 pm

BlaineG wrote:
10 shots into an inch at 500 M? I'm impressed, and promise never, ever to make you angry.

Blaine,
I was a little excited when I wrote this earlier---saw my daughter today for first time in several months---------I should have clarified myself better.

10 shots into 1" at 100 yards and will bust clay birds out to 500.

----------stupid me

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:If it weren't so durn expensive, the new .223/.308 Colt Lower looks pretty cool...

I had my hands on 'em and while very cool...and a nice solid gun.........I could not convince myself that it was a better gun than my M1-A national match rifle. Maybe more tactical but I can shoot the M1-A all day long and not be punishing myself. The thing weighs 12 pounds. The Colt 901 might weigh 9 pounds.

My son gives me hell for not buying it as I could have had a consecutive pair (one for me and my son)for dealer cost but.............I am a peon factory worker and 1800 for one still would have been hard to chew.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:03 pm

Not all are jam amatics joe. My LMT gas piston shoots cool clean and every time. Just saying

3leggedturtle · Post by **3leggedturtle** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:47 pm

I was mistaken

The "trapper" 1885's in CDNN are in 30/40, 38/55 and 45/70. They are only $849.99.

okdee · Post by **okdee** » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:21 pm

Check out the Colt LE901-165, There was a write up in some shooter mag somewheres.
Seemed to be fairly good way to go. I would go that route, if I was not so deep in Armalites.

homefront · Post by **homefront** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:34 am

I can't picture a TEOTWAWKI scenario where being a civilian and having an AR15 would be needed or would even work.

The way I see it, if I'm ever alone in a situation requiring the mag and reload capacity of an AR15, I'm already done for.

If I'm facing multiple opponents who have similar firepower, there's no way I could carry enough mags.

Using it for suppressive fire would require a chain of resupply in the field, which isn't likely to be there. High rate of fire/fast reload would not help; it would leave you empty of rounds but quick.

Anything inside 50 yards would get a reply from a high-cap pistol anyway. Those mags are easy to carry.

For beyond that range, even way beyond, a Scout Rifle that can be reloaded quickly, like the Mossberg MVP, would seem like a more useful alternative.

I hope we never have real circumstances to provide field data for my argument.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:44 pm

Okay, there were NO 1885's in .32-40 available. Couldn't find one anywhere on the 'net. 2 or 3 shops I visited didn't have one... one even said "...a WHAT?" So much for knowledgeable salesfolk!

.223 AR with RedDot sight. Just at $1000 with sight, ammo, etc. Something called a Windham Weapons. We'll see how it works tomorrow!

Next to my Project 1894 Marlin... One holds 12 rounds of Cowboy45Special, the other 30 rounds of .223.

With a mdl 94 Trapper and a 12ga double in the background!

Hobie's comment did kinda sway me. But, just as I remember... I HATE reloading mags!

But, I already hate it!

The wife sez that she doesn't want it loaded, she'd rather have her double shotgun ready with ammo!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:00 pm

Griff,
Way to go pard!!!!!!!!!!! You now "da man with the black gun" Take that gun and the KW and cruise on down to the dark side of Houston and you be "da dude wit black gun in hood wit hoody on".

Windham make great guns. I never heard nothin bad about 'em. A buddy of mine has a couple of them and he told me a few months ago that they ran flawless.

Now you need to pick up a few Mag-Pul mags (THE BEST) and a couple of 420 rd. Lake City green tip in the military can.

Beings that you are a VN vet, I'm surprised you did not venture into the Mighty M1-A field. Man! Those babies can really rip things up.

By the way, that sure is a pretty double barreled hammer gun you have there in the safe.

----------Sixgun

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:00 am

Thanks for the info Sixgun. I bought it on the price point, and the fact that it was optic ready. I kinda wanted the S&W version... but none were to be found locally. It had two of the features I really wanted, metal receiver and forward assist. The RedDot I got was a Bushnell unit. Hopin' to get it sighted in tomorrow. I'll have to look around for the mags and ammo. I'll probably get some reloading dies and supplies for this little diminutive round tomorrow.

WoodrowC · Post by **WoodrowC** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:27 am

My Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.I is my militia rifle. Range, power, lots of stripper clips.

Gerry

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:05 am

Griff wrote:Thanks for the info Sixgun. I bought it on the price point, and the fact that it was optic ready. I kinda wanted the S&W version... but none were to be found locally. It had two of the features I really wanted, metal receiver and forward assist. The RedDot I got was a Bushnell unit. Hopin' to get it sighted in tomorrow. I'll have to look around for the mags and ammo. I'll probably get some reloading dies and supplies for this little diminutive round tomorrow.

Griff,
Not sure if you are framiliar with loading the .223, so if you are, please disregard my comment.

If you get dies, get the "small base" variety. Somewhere along the line you will pick up a thou or 2 of once fired brass and with luck some of us have, some will be shot out of machine guns with fat chambers.

My "go-to bullet" and the ones I researched greatly for ?

are the Sierra 69 gr. Matchking BTHP of which I keep a half dozen Mag-Puls "good-to-go".--------Sixgun

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:07 am

I've heard nothing but good about Windham Weaponry. I believe that they are the old Bushmaster crew in the original Bushmaster facility.

Even though I advised you to get the 1885, I can't fault your decision. As much as I like shooting my leverguns and bolt actions and semi-autos and single shots that I have, I LOVE shooting my ARs!!

(And I don't even "march around practicing to be a soldier" - three years was plenty!)

Bob Hatfield · Post by **Bob Hatfield** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:17 pm

Has this government ever made us turn in our property in the past? Maybe your Hemp rope back during WWII. LOL or your whiskey before that.
I would want the Feds to pay me the full going price for my Colt. Before I would give it to the Feds I'd burn it or bury it. How the heck do they know I didnt sell it 10 years ago?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:57 pm

Sixgun wrote:Griff,
Not sure if you are framiliar with loading the .223, so if you are, please disregard my comment.
If you get dies, get the "small base" variety. Somewhere along the line you will pick up a thou or 2 of once fired brass and with luck some of us have, some will be shot out of machine guns with fat chambers.
My "go-to bullet" and the ones I researched greatly for ? are the Sierra 69 gr. Matchking BTHP of which I keep a half dozen Mag-Puls "good-to-go".--------Sixgun

Nope, not familiar at all. But... I do seem to recall that "small base" thing about .223 dies tho'. Thanks for the reminder. Mine has the 1:9 twist barrel. And, out this afternoon plinkin' at a stump, got 'er centered... as much as standing off-hand at 50 yards can be centered. I like the RedDot! Just used some American Eagle 50 grain spire points. Took 9 rounds to get it to POA. Sorry, no pics of target. Didn't even take the phone, the 150 yards from the house and back... was enough of a hike!

WoodrowC wrote:My Lee Enfield No.4 Mk.I is my militia rifle. Range, power, lots of stripper clips.
Gerry

Actually, my M-1 Garand is my main "battle rifle"... but it gets a little heavy to lug around... not to mention any ammo that needs to be humped around also. I mainly bought this because I still can!

damienph wrote:I've heard nothing but good about Windham Weaponry. I believe that they are the old Bushmaster crew in the original Bushmaster facility.)

Thanks for the additional confirmation of my choice. Wally World had a Colt, 2 Remingtons (Bushmaster), a Sig and this one. Both the Sig and Colt had the carry handle & tall front sight. One Remington had a top rail, but was $80 more, the other had a top rail but still had the tall front sight in place. The Windham was actually the least expensive of the four.