OT-Interesting Aircraft

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:34 am

I did not want to hijack AmBraCol's thread "OT - The War Behind The Insults" but I have always been a fan of aircraft (especially WWII aircraft) and while reading the above mentioned post's second news article I couldn't help notice the mention of the aircraft the Colombian's used in their raid into Ecuador as Brazilian "Super Tucano" aircraft. I was intrigued by Brazilian military aircraft technology so I did a search and surprisingly found that to me this Brazilian Super Tucano has a uncanny resemblance to one of my favorite WWII fighter aircraft of all time (you can really see it in the tail) except with a nose wheel instead of being a tail-dragger, and the V-12 Merlin replaced with a more modern turbine engine, a modern version of a war winning US design. Can any of you fellow WWII aircraft fans guess which classic plane i'm thinking of?
Here's a few pictures of the Super Tucano, I'd love to fly in one of these babies!

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:08 am

Ganjiro, I'm guessing you're talking about a P-51. Judging by the canopy size I would say that Tucano is quite a bit smaller, neat plane though. I love oddball military aircraft like the OV-10 Bronco and A-1 Skyraider. Anything that's made to slug it out in the trenches. AC-130s, A-10 Warthogs, oh yeah, low and slow with big guns, maybe not too sexy but they get the job done.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:15 am

we did joint missions with these.
pete

nemhed · Post by **nemhed** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:24 am

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! I just read "A Lonely Kind of War" by Marshall Harrison. One of the best Vietnam War books I've read in probably 10 years. It gives a completly different perspective on that war. I never fully appreciated or understood the role of Forward Air Control until I read that book. I think California still uses Broncos for FAC fighting wildland fires.

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:31 am

Not a whole lot smaller with similar wind span and the P-51 actually being shorter, and the Super Tucanos has a double canopy for 2 persons so optical illusion of being smaller though it is a bit lighter and not as quick top speed.

Specifications:
North American P-51D Mustang

Wing span: 37 ft (11.27 m)
Length: 32 ft 3 in (9.82 m)
Height: 13 ft 8 in (4.16 m)
Weight Empty: 7,125 lb. (3,232 kg)

Performance:
Max Speed: 437 mph (703 km/h)
Range: 950 miles (1,529 km)
Max Range: 2,300 miles (3,701 km)

Specifications:
EMB-314 Super Tucano / Light Attack Aircraft, Brazil

Wingspan 11.14m
Length 11.42m
Height 3.90m
Weight Empty: 2,420kg

Performance
Maximum Speed 560km/h
Range over 1,500km

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:32 am

I once stood on a Korean mountaintop looking down into the valley watching the OV-10s doing their thing.

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:39 am

A couple years back I started a collection of 1/4 inch scale (1/48 ) Vietnam Era model planes concentrating on the non-jet powered aircraft. The only one I have missing now is the OV-1Grumman Mohawk:

Was going to get together with Dad and build these but that didn't work out.

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:42 am

I remember as a kid early one morning hearing a rucus in the sky so ran out to see 2 OV-10 Broncos from the Marine Base in a mock dogfight over my house. Somehow I don't think they where supposed to be doing that especially over the town, it was VERY cool though to watch them tossing and turning in the sky above trying to avoid each other.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:43 am

I seen the A-10's tearing it up then come out of a gun run and doing a roll.all you can say is WOW

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:45 am

nemhed wrote:Yeah, that's what I'm talking about! I just read "A Lonely Kind of War" by Marshall Harrison. One of the best Vietnam War books I've read in probably 10 years. It gives a completly different perspective on that war. I never fully appreciated or understood the role of Forward Air Control until I read that book. I think California still uses Broncos for FAC fighting wildland fires.

Yep CDF uses them for arial FAC and drops on hot spots and in tight spaces that the larger planes cant get into.

BruceB · Post by **BruceB** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:11 pm

Reminds me of the Piper Enforcer of some years back, although the Enforcer bore a much stronger resemlence to the P-51.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsh ... asp?id=614

1894 · Post by **1894** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:31 pm

Dang GI , that last pic reminds me of my Dad , he joined the Army -Air force and wanted to fly planes. After the aptitude tests the powers to be thought he'd be better used working on some new radio detecting and ranging technology thing at the time .

edsguns · Post by **edsguns** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:44 pm

I'm guessing you're talking about a P-51. Judging by the canopy size I would say that Tucano is quite a bit smaller, neat plane though. I love oddball military aircraft like the OV-10 Bronco and A-1 Skyraider. Anything that's made to slug it out in the trenches. AC-130s, A-10 Warthogs, oh yeah, low and slow with big guns, maybe not too sexy but they get the job done.[/quote]

I can still remember vividly while still in Army flt school in '78 seeing the NEW A-10 giving us a flight demonstration and then less than 2 yrs later, being a member of an attack company which held some of the very first live-fire JAAT (joint air attack team) exercises ever with Air Force and Army aviation working together. I actually was calling mortar fire, AHI Cobra gunship fire and A-10 Fire in live fire, real-time exercises as a OH58 Scout Pilot. We even carried Air Force O2 pilots with us at times(don't tell anyone, but I actually let him fly my aircraft a bit!) VERY interesting stuff. Thanks for making me remember that!

edsguns · Post by **edsguns** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:02 pm

The only one I have missing now is the OV-1Grumman Mohawk:

Was going to get together with Dad and build these but that didn't work
out.

[/quote]

Have you ever seen the Mohawk with the large SLAR hung underneath? In the late 70s and early 80s the Army had a similar radar boom beneath a helicopter platform it used for looking at ground targets with real-time information vs. the Mohawks tapes. SOTAS (stand off target aquisition system). The boom, about the same size as a Mohawk's, actually turned underneath the aircraft when in mission mode in flight. Very unusual. It was an interesting tour flying them for 3 yrs. As far as I know, only 4 of these specialized aircraft made it into the inventory.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:46 pm

I guessed P-51. Do I get a prize?

I don't recall the name, but I like the big gunship in "Transformers" they used in the desert. My brother is in the Air-Force, he got fired up as soon as he seen it.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:24 pm

I'm sure I have seen a Mowhawk in North Wales, There was/is a RAF base at Shell Island and about fifteen years ago I watched from afar a craft take of from the base. Wierd looking thing and have always wondered what it was. I am now convinced that it was a Mowhawk, The base I think flew drones for some reason, perhaps for targeting/tracking etc, thanks.
The RAF use to use the tucano for a trainer but we don't see them busing about now. Nippy craft with a distinct sound, I miss them.
Nath.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:56 pm

Andrew wrote:I guessed P-51. Do I get a prize?

I don't recall the name, but I like the big gunship in "Transformers" they used in the desert. My brother is in the Air-Force, he got fired up as soon as he seen it.

AC-130 Gunship
Those things are cool. They get used in Iraq alot.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:34 pm

BruceB

Thanks a million for that airforce link. Wow!!

If you type Havoc in the search box you will see the A-20 my Dad flew as test pilot off the assembly line. Some hair-raising stories including how close I came to NOT being born.

Most of those planes were ferried by girls to Alaska where Russian pilots picked them up and flew them across to Siberia and down to the war zone.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:30 pm

My Dad was on the Convair RB-36 back in the 50's. Weird yet classy and wonderful looking too! If I remember correctly it carried 84,000 lbs of bombs and also helped it earn it's name "Peacemaker"!

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:32 pm

Talk about interesting

McDonnell XF-85

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:11 pm

edsguns wrote:The only one I have missing now is the OV-1Grumman Mohawk:

Was going to get together with Dad and build these but that didn't work
out.

Have you ever seen the Mohawk with the large SLAR hung underneath? In the late 70s and early 80s the Army had a similar radar boom beneath a helicopter platform it used for looking at ground targets with real-time information vs. the Mohawks tapes. SOTAS (stand off target aquisition system). The boom, about the same size as a Mohawk's, actually turned underneath the aircraft when in mission mode in flight. Very unusual. It was an interesting tour flying them for 3 yrs. As far as I know, only 4 of these specialized aircraft made it into the inventory.[/quote]

I guess I am showing my age here but I went to school for the auto pilot on the "hawk" an-asw 12.heres a fact for you. the amp for the auto pilot is run by TUBES

.I went across 500 vdc doing a volt check and got bit hard...ouch.

pete

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:22 pm

I know its not a fixed wing buy my fav aircraft.
as we said in the cav.if it doesn't have guns its a taxi

.
pete

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:59 pm

Oh you've hit a major weak spot for me. I was a wingnut before I knew what a firearm was (not by much but I was aware of a/c first

).

Ji, if I had a quarter scale Mohawk kit it would be headed your way. Don't build anymore since I lack the time, talent, patience and space.

Mud movers are my favorites. A10, SPAD (Skyraider), Henschel Hs129, Havocs, Mitchells (I really like the ship busters from the SOPAC), yadayadayada.

Regarding the B36, there's been a story for years that there is a B36 off the end of the Carswell AFB runway in Lake Worth. It went into the drink during an aborted takeoff. Depending on who's doing the telling it was carrying a nuke that was never pulled out, the nuke was pulled out or it never had one to begin with.

Two good VN helo books are Low Level Hell and Easy Target. Both were written by LOACH drivers and cover their recon work as well as the Cobra/LOACH hunter killer teams. What makes reading both interesting is that one was written by a gung ho volunteer and the other was a draftee who thought it sounded safer than being a grunt.

Chickenhawk is another one. It's been a long time since I read it but IIRC the author was a slick driver.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:55 pm

Since we're posting favorite AC's, here's one I worked out of many moons ago.

Can anyone ID it?

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:33 pm

jeepnik wrote:Can anyone ID it?

Helicopter!! I win again!

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:07 am

Andrew wrote:
jeepnik wrote:Can anyone ID it?
Helicopter!! I win again!

Another candidate for mensa

OJ · Post by OJ » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:30 am

Sure like all those planes. I got a little time in jets (T-33) and the H19 helicopter (novelty then) in the Korean wat - and I was in as a medical officer and not a pilot then. Went through cadets in WW II.

This is my speed now -

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:03 am

But then we all know a helicopter can't really fly. They're just so ugly the earth naturally repels them.

I was working one night in S. Fla and I heard something in the air. I couldn't see anything but was hearing it fly around. I kept looking and finally I was able to pick out a black ( no it wasn't a helicopter) Bronco flying around in a fairly tight circle. It had been rumored that DEA had a few of them but I was never able to confirm anything. The only reason anything was ever made over DEA having them in the first place as I heard it was because they still had the hard mounts on them and for some reason that's a no no. I never did understand that either.

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:11 am

I worked on the OV-10 when I was with the 1st Special Operations Wing.

txpete wrote:we did joint missions with these.
pete

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:13 am

I see these everyday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-6_Texan_II

My son flew them when he was training to fly the F-15E Strike Eagle.

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:53 am

Swampman wrote:I see these everyday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-6_Texan_II

My son flew them when he was training to fly the F-15E Strike Eagle.

That is one good looking aircraft, thanks for sharing.

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:14 pm

JI, you may be interested in this. I just saw an episode of "Dogfights" on the History channel, a great series. This one was on the P-51. Do you know how many planes its crews downed in WWII? I was absolutely flabbergasted to learn that, are you ready?, 4,957 planes were either shot down, or destroyed on the ground!!!! Were we good at our technology, or what??? And our People were supreme, as well!!!! God Bless America!!! jd45

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:43 pm

jd45 wrote:JI, you may be interested in this. I just saw an episode of "Dogfights" on the History channel, a great series. This one was on the P-51. Do you know how many planes its crews downed in WWII? I was absolutely flabbergasted to learn that, are you ready?, 4,957 planes were either shot down, or destroyed on the ground!!!! Were we good at our technology, or what??? And our People were supreme, as well!!!! God Bless America!!! jd45

DOGFIGHTS my (and Dad's) favorite show, at least the episodes that highlight WWII battles. P-51 definitely my favorite in European Theatre but in the Pacific Theatre my favorite (Even more than the F4U Corsair) was the Grumman Hellcat. Carrier borne Navy and Marine Hellcats in the Pacific region racked up a total of 4,948 kills by the end of the war. Other land based Hellcats had some success by scoring 266 kills. In all, 5,216 Axis airplanes were downed by Hellcats. As my dad would say "they made mincemeat out of Jap planes". Thanks for sharing the info, USA sure kicked butt in WWII

What a BEAUTY!

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:52 pm

JI, and God bless your dad, too. He's the reason I'm able to do what I do. jd45

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:16 pm

And here's what my Uncle Suzuki was flying over Lingayan Gulf, Luzon, Philippine Islands when my Dad (and the rest of the invasion fleet) started opening up on him.

My uncle was finally shot down but survived with burn scars on his face his goggles protecting his eyes and skin around them so he had these google shaped area of clear skin to forever remind him of the conflict. He became a teacher after the war and rarely spoke of that time. I just remember him as being a quiet and humble man.

Mitsubishi Ki-46

Swampman · Post by **Swampman** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:40 pm

My son is the back seat of this one.

edsguns · Post by **edsguns** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:26 pm

txpete wrote:I know its not a fixed wing buy my fav aircraft.
as we said in the cav.if it doesn't have guns its a taxi .
pete

Do I win the prize if I tell you all...I have flown an AHIS Cobra and had a very experienced and VERY brave instructor pilot turn me upside down in one... just after I fired the 20mm gattling gun.... woooooooooooo hooooooooo

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:28 pm

Looks more like a P39 Aircobra to me than a P51 - only because of the nose wheel setup. In either case, a very cool looking plane. I have always wondered why we no longer have a prop plane in the lineup similar to the A1 Skyraider - long loiter times, high ordnance capacity, good armor from ground fire, etc. I suppose the A10 Warthog fits the bill better but a prop plane would work well against insurgent groups who don't have attack aircraft which could counter against a non-jet model (I just like piston engines better...

)

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:22 am

GANJIRO wrote:Mitsubishi Ki-46

Very nice Dinah build!

I've always thought the Japanese aircraft had a certain elegant grace to them.

bcp · Post by **bcp** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:52 am

I've always liked the Bell L-39.

Bruce

GANJIRO · Post by **GANJIRO** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:08 am

awp101 wrote:
GANJIRO wrote:Mitsubishi Ki-46

Very nice Dinah build!

I've always thought the Japanese aircraft had a certain elegant grace to them.

Amen to that, Japanese aircraft IMHO all had graceful lines that were unique to the Japanese especially the radial engined aircrafts with their graceful engine cowling and matching prop hubs, rounded wing tips, etc. the Mitsubishi A6M3 Reisen (Zero) being a perfect example of graceful almost feminine lines, as opposed to American aircraft's very macho lines. Very different design philosophies but both nations putting out very eye pleasing designs.

Kilroy6644 · Post by **Kilroy6644** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:24 am

Is this the thread where I get to show off my B-25 pictures?

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:49 am

Piper 48... I was living in Florida when Piper rolled that out. It WAS a P51 with a Garrett engine

Word was the USAF liked it... it was about to go into testing but the USAF did not have any pilots rated for tailwheel aircraft, The project died soon after.

Mohawks... we had a squadron of Mohawks come to out little Tennessee town from Arizona. They flew out for a funeral... someone from that squadron was from the area.

I thought they were cool.