My Big Bore scout Mount project

[handirifle]

I had a Williams FP sight on my Big Bore, and loved it, but my vision with the peep was hit and miss. So I had to consider other options, including scoping it. I also have acquired a 307 Win barrel for it, and when I get the other parts needed, I will swap it to the 307. There's a lot of reasons, but one of them is caliber (bullet dia specifically) minimalization. It will be a lot easier for me in the long run.

That said, I have been considering a scope on this rifle (I know it's blaspheme) and since it is the top eject model, and I really didin't want to drill out the receiver either. When I inherited this rifle, it came with an Ironsighter, side mount with a red dot scope in it. Problem is, it was mounted on the left side, and I shoot left handed, so I was looking well past center just to see it. Not good. I have for years felt there was a better setup for me, but didn't have the ideas-skills-and time to do something about it. Now I do. It is a center mounted replacement for the Ironsighter mount, and can serve left or right handed equally well. For the pics I put the red dot scope back one, but think I will go for a scout scope with a little magnification, especially to take advantage of the extra range the eventual 307 swap will have.

So, with that said, I have been working on a scout mount for my Big Bore, that requires no drilled holes. Not sure if I will use an actual scout scope, or the little red dot I have, still deciding.

First off, it's still in the white. I haven't finished polishing it up yet, before bluing. I will not be able to get the kind of finish that the rifle has, mainly because the joints are welded (by me) and there are some minor voids, that will show a little. Nothing major, but not as pretty as I hoped.

This first pic is pretty much a top view. This is how it will be on the rifle. The thin bar on the lower left, will bolt to the receiver, using existing holes and screws. The larger heavier bar, is my home made piccatinny rail, sort of. I make it so I had some adjustment is the scope ring locations. I have better pics of the rail.



These next two give a better look at the rail. In the top one, you see the hole I drilled for the front stabilizer screw. The screw will go through here, and then through a spacer (not shown), that HOPEFULLY aligns the rail vertically with the bore. The bottom pic shows the contour of the rail.





The last pic is pretty much how it will sit on the rifle. I will take pics once I mount it on the rifle. I have two dissimilar screws on the back, currently, but will resolve that issue later on, it's not a big deal to me right now. The forward screw is a long version of the factory one. This screw came with the Ironsighter side mount, but I changed it from a flat head screw to a round head. In the Ironsighter it sat recessed so that design was good, but on this unit, it's exposed, so I wanted the edges easy on the hand, for carry.



Note I used all the high tech machine shop I own. Like my radial arm saw to cut the slots in the rail, then using a hand file for the final fitting. I then used my combo belt/disc sander to cut the angles on the side of the rail, and to clean up the weld joints. The small rear bar is 1/2x1/8" steel flat bar. The curved section from that bar to the rail, is more 1/2 x 1/8, but two layers welded together for strength and stability.

The rail is now 1/4 x 13/16" at it's widest. It started off as 1/4 x 1" flat bar. To make the angles on the sides, I dropped the table of the disc sander to a 45 deg angle and slowly (took about an hour) cut the angles matching the scope rings.

Once the rail was built, I welded it to the double layer "L" section of the mount, and sanded for another hour to get it to this point. Lotta work, but a lotta fun.

Ok, now I have polished it up as much as I could, and blued it, but I will say up front, the bluing didn't come out real well. Might be the steel but not sure. I might see about some other type of coating that will come close to the quality of the shine the rifle has.

Here's the finished piece and all the associated parts. As I mentioned, the bluing didn't take well, so it looks a bit light.



Here is a couple side views of it mounted. Now keep in mind, the front WILL be attached to the dovetail blank that is in the barrel. I need to drill and tap it first. It was pouring rain here today and i didn't want to take it out in the rain. Not that a Win 94 has not been out in the rain before, just not this one. With the top down picture you can see it is still a slim piece, I wanted that so it didn't interfere with carrying.

The side piece is 1/8" thick, and if I had it to do over, it would be either 3/16 or 1/4" with the top tapered down for smoothness. I can always, and may still, add a another layer of 1/8" to beef it up. I have to see how well it all holds position to retain zero after getting bumped around a bit.






Here I have the red dot on it, but like I said, I will end up with a scout scope. The red dot is destined for my Mini 14.









Hope ya'all like it, would appreciate feedback on improvements or changes I should make.

[ollogger]

I like it, its all in making a gun shoot for ya
ive spent enuff trying to make guns shoot for me with different types of sights or scopes
which brings up a question of, what ya gonna do with the rec. sight? I have a 375 BB
that needs one


ollogger

[AJMD429]

Awesome project...!

Especially the fact that it is such an unobtrusive mount vs. many of the bulky/clunky factory ones you see out there. You barely notice there is a mount - it just looks like a scope floating over the gun.

[BenT]

Nice use of tools on hand. It looks great.

[rjohns94]

Well done!!! Like was said, the optics seem to just float over the gun

[handirifle]

Thanks, I never thought of it floating, but I guess it does. I have since completed the connection at the rear sight dovetail, and that has made it very solid. I will see how it hold up under fire and recoil. I remember that the XS scout mount for the Marlin Guide Gun ended up requiring the front dovetail to be cemented in place because it wandered under recoil. I MIGHT counter sink a small dent under the dovetail if that happens. I know that isn't great for value, per se, but it won't show and that won't nag me, like D&Ting the top of the receiver would have.

As for the mount blending in, I think if I get it cerokoted in gloss black (I think they can do that) it ought to blend real well then. I do NOT like how it looks right now.

The cerokote would also clear up another concern I have, and that is hoping this won't trap moisture between the receiver and the mount. Do not want rust starting to get in there.

I will also check into a professional bluing job. Will see how much $$$, and whether or not the bluing will take on the welds just like the other metal.

ollogger

I am not sure, but if I decide to sell it anytime soon, I will PM you first about it. I do have another 94, it has a 26" barrel and I will see if it fits that one, before making any decisions.

[Ranch Dog]

...I will go for a scout scope with a little magnification, especially to take advantage of the extra range the eventual 307 swap will have.

Very nice work! You mentioned a scope with some magnification, look at the Weaver K4 Scout. I am shooting these on a R92 Scout rifle in 44 Mag and 45 Colt (this is the rifle with the raised comb on the stock). I just added another K4 Scout to a R92 chambered in 480 Ruger, I had to have the barrel drilled and taped to accept the Rossi scout base. I have a fourth R92, a 357 Mag, and another Weaver K4 Scout so I'm thinking of adding it to the 357 Mag. I had to epoxy the base to the 44 Mag and 45 Colt as heavy loads where shucking the base screws. Same with the 480 Ruger.

Like I said, very nice work!

[Ranch Dog]

Handirifle, I thought I would add that I evaluated all the current production scout rifle scopes, through purchase, but settled on the Weaver. The Weaver K4 Scout has one glaring error in its specs as offered by Weaver and repeated by most retailers. The weight is listed as 14 ounces but the actual weight is 7! I wrote Weaver but they never responded. All four of my K4 Scouts weigh exactly the same.



I shot this hog two nights ago, out in the field with ambient light (none), but it is amazing what good optics allow be done.

[tattoo13]

Handirifle, I thought I would add that I evaluated all the current production scout rifle scopes, through purchase, but settled on the Weaver.

Did you compare it to the Leupold FX?

[tattoo13]

The mount looks good, one suggestion I would make is to use counter sunk holes and tapered screws. Might help keep it a little more solid.

[handirifle]

Ranch dog,
Thanks for the tip. I will look into the Weaver. I like Weaver scopes anyway. I am amazed at how much better my objects look in twilight through my Leupold scope, compared to the naked eye.

The mount looks good, one suggestion I would make is to use counter sunk holes and tapered screws. Might help keep it a little more solid.

tattoo13
The rear hole (far right) is counter sunk, but not enough, and the far left screw is the Elongated finger pin screw. I am not aware those are made in a tapered version. If I wasn't afraid of screwing up the threads on it, I would have tried, but in reality, it wouldn't have worked well FOR THIS BUILD because the thickness of the mount worked perfectly with the design of the screw. The screw came from the old Ironsighter side mount, otherwise I am not aware of a source that makes a long version of this screw. I am in the process (checked two gunshops and a hardware store) of trying to locate some tapered 6-48 screws that are only 1/4" long. Will probably have to mail order them.

If I ever do a version 2, it will be thicker on the sides, and I could sink the front one, but then the whole thing would stick out a bit.

Now if I can figure out a way to thread the little sucker, I could otherwise build the screw on my lathe. I have zero experience making threads on a lathe, at least without using a threading die.

Once acquired, I WILL countersink them, as I agree the whole thing would look better that way. Just wasn't practical for me. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[handirifle]

I have one more question,
Since it's kinda impractical to bore sight the Win lever, when I decided on the angle to mount the scope base in hopeful relation to the bore, I made it as close as possible to parallel to the bore (I hope) by making it level with the top of the receiver.

Is that reasonable to ASSUME that the bore would be parallel to the top of the receiver? I felt that if the base followed the barrel, the barrel taper would have the scope pointing down too much. Never designed an entire mounting system before so new territory.

[Ranch Dog]

Did you compare it to the Leupold FX?

Yes, the 2.5X28 extended eye relief scope.

In a nutshell, I looked at the Burris, Leupold, NcStar, and Weaver offerings. I also bought the Bushnell Elite 2-6X32 Handgun after Bushnell tech support had told me it would work in a scout application. That is what I wanted to go with as I'm a Bushnell guy but there is a difference in scout and handgun eye relief with the latter requiring more relief.

Anyway, please remember this is based on my needs in hunting whitetails and hogs in South Texas, here is what it boiled down to:

• I did not like the heavy duplex of the Burris and NcStar, a Burris clone. It covered up too much of the animal I was shooting at. I consider 70-yards to be the typical distance I shoot and it was tough to be consistent in shot place on live critters.
• I did not care for the low power magnification of the Burris, Leupold, and NcStar. 2X isn't much, if you need magnification you might as well get some.
• I was concerned with the 50-yard parallax of the Weaver. With cheap glass, parallax is everything. With quality glass, parallax seems not to be any issue.
• I often have heard that the 4X would be too much magnification. The scout scope is about the most natural sight picture possible as you are looking directly down the barrel and do not need to line anything up. I've had no issue with the K4 Scouts magnification. I shot a hog that was walking to me at about 10'. Granted his eyeball took about 50% of the field of view but it sure was easy to hit!

[Ranch Dog]

I have one more question,
Since it's kinda impractical to bore sight the Win lever, when I decided on the angle to mount the scope base in hopeful relation to the bore, I made it as close as possible to parallel to the bore (I hope) by making it level with the top of the receiver.

Is that reasonable to ASSUME that the bore would be parallel to the top of the receiver? I felt that if the base followed the barrel, the barrel taper would have the scope pointing down too much. Never designed an entire mounting system before so new territory.

"Is that reasonable to ASSUME that the bore would be parallel to the top of the receiver?"

I would think so.

I found an inexpensive laser bore sight at Academy, a local discount sporting goods store, that works like a champ. It had a whole set of caliber collets and cost about $10.

[Old Savage]

Clever, clever fellow.

[handirifle]

10', now that's close shootin.

I hope to get it out and shoot it before too long. I have to admit, the look of that little red on top of the rifle, is starting to grow on me.

[handirifle]

Ranch Dog
I looked at the weaver, in Midways web site. The only issue I have with it is the eye relief. It is fixed at 9" (maybe they all are I don't know yet) but I measured my relief, as mounted, and it's 11". A scope sticking 2" farther back would interfere with case ejection, I am quite certain.

So if all scout type scopes have similar relief values, I will be forced to look at the pistol scope. Maybe none of them will work, don't know just yet. I would prefer a magnified scope over the red dot, mainly for the later 307 conversion. In the ranges I would use the 375, the red dot would do fine, I am sure. I found that the dot is about a 3-4 MOA dot, but the scope has 11 different brightness settings and when set on 3-4 it looks much smaller, which would be better for longer range shots and sighting in.

[Ranch Dog]

Ranch Dog
I looked at the weaver, in Midways web site. The only issue I have with it is the eye relief. It is fixed at 9" (maybe they all are I don't know yet) but I measured my relief, as mounted, and it's 11". A scope sticking 2" farther back would interfere with case ejection, I am quite certain.

So if all scout type scopes have similar relief values, I will be forced to look at the pistol scope. Maybe none of them will work, don't know just yet. I would prefer a magnified scope over the red dot, mainly for the later 307 conversion. In the ranges I would use the 375, the red dot would do fine, I am sure. I found that the dot is about a 3-4 MOA dot, but the scope has 11 different brightness settings and when set on 3-4 it looks much smaller, which would be better for longer range shots and sighting in.

Eye relief list is a minimum unless a range is given. The Weaver is the same as the Leupold. Handgun scopes usually are 15" minimum. I'm using 11" on all my Weaver K4 Scouts. Here is a list of the specs on the three contenders in the Scout Scope Market.



Nothing wrong with a red dot, just depends how far you are going to shoot. I've killed whitetails out to 168-yards with my 375 Win and 3 to 4 MOA would start covering up a lot of animal especially at low magnification.

[Ranch Dog]

This is a fantastic DIY project but have you thought about just drilling and tapping the 307 Win barrel when you get to it. Wild West has an aluminum base that is $25. I'm thinking mainly about weight now. I have a M94 and just bought one for it. Not sure when I will get to putting it on.

[deafrn]

I would prefer a magnified scope over the red dot, mainly for the later 307 conversion. In the ranges I would use the 375, the red dot would do fine, I am sure. I found that the dot is about a 3-4 MOA dot, but the scope has 11 different brightness settings and when set on 3-4 it looks much smaller, which would be better for longer range shots and sighting in.

My Aimpoint T-1 Micro with a 2 MOA dot has performed better than I had anticipated; as you pointed out, the intensity can be set down almost vanishingly low - and subsequently the dot is perceived as smaller - for long, deliberate shots. When cranked up, pickup is still fast. I've had a couple of red dot sights over the years, and this one is dynamite in a small package.

I remember that the XS scout mount for the Marlin Guide Gun ended up requiring the front dovetail to be cemented in place because it wandered under recoil.

I've been following this thread because the mount you have made is a project after my own heart. I was on the cusp of making some sort of similar mount for 1892s after finding that Turnbull's FastFireII mount was not recommended for the rifles I had, but I sold both the Rossi and the Miroku before taking the plunge. Now I'm turning a poorly-made Marlin 1894CSS into a "tacti-clod" utility rifle; with one problem leading to another, the sight/mount solution is slowly taking shape. The rear sight dovetail on the CSS barrel was so "off" that along with the other tolerance stacking on the gun, the XS Lever Rail was virtually unusable as it was. Not committed to the notion of mounting any optics in the scout position anyway, I just cut it to approximately the same length as the old standby one-piece Weaver mount.

It isn't beautiful, but hopefully it will do the job.

"d"

[handirifle]

Ranch Dog
I looked at the weaver, in Midways web site. The only issue I have with it is the eye relief. It is fixed at 9" (maybe they all are I don't know yet) but I measured my relief, as mounted, and it's 11". A scope sticking 2" farther back would interfere with case ejection, I am quite certain.

So if all scout type scopes have similar relief values, I will be forced to look at the pistol scope. Maybe none of them will work, don't know just yet. I would prefer a magnified scope over the red dot, mainly for the later 307 conversion. In the ranges I would use the 375, the red dot would do fine, I am sure. I found that the dot is about a 3-4 MOA dot, but the scope has 11 different brightness settings and when set on 3-4 it looks much smaller, which would be better for longer range shots and sighting in.

Eye relief list is a minimum unless a range is given. The Weaver is the same as the Leupold. Handgun scopes usually are 15" minimum. I'm using 11" on all my Weaver K4 Scouts. Here is a list of the specs on the three contenders in the Scout Scope Market.



Nothing wrong with a red dot, just depends how far you are going to shoot. I've killed whitetails out to 168-yards with my 375 Win and 3 to 4 MOA would start covering up a lot of animal especially at low magnification.

RD
I swear when I looked the Weaver was 11" eye relief, but looking back, even the one at Midway, shows 9", so not sure what I was looking at now. Thanks for posting that!

OK NOW I remember the issue. In order to get it to work for me, I thought 9" relief, meant JUST 9", but IF I can move the scope forward, it might work. Not sure how much room I have up there to go forward. I may have made it too short on top, not sure now.

If I use this type of mount (mine) I can use it and then if I ever decided to swap back to a 375, the 307 barrel would be unaltered. If this were a barrel for my Savage rifle, then no biggie, they're easier to come by but considering it's for the Winnie, it's a different animal.

Maybe I'll give the red dot a thorough going over at the range before deciding if I really NEED a scope. I had to admit (to myself) the little red dot looks real unobtrusive up there.

I do need to see about getting that mount closer to black though. I just got the name of a gunsmith here in the area that one of the gunshops uses. I will have to see if he does that.

[handirifle]

This is a fantastic DIY project but have you thought about just drilling and tapping the 307 Win barrel when you get to it. Wild West has an aluminum base that is $25. I'm thinking mainly about weight now. I have a M94 and just bought one for it. Not sure when I will get to putting it on.

No I hadn't honestly. I wasn't aware that anyone made a barrel only mount. All the ones I had seen relied on both the barrel and the receiver to be screwed into. This one is barrel only huh? I couldn't find it.

[Ranch Dog]

No I hadn't honestly. I wasn't aware that anyone made a barrel only mount. All the ones I had seen relied on both the barrel and the receiver to be screwed into. This one is barrel only huh? I couldn't find it.

Yeah, it is a real simple quality grade aluminum base, similar to the scout mount that the Rossi 92 uses, anodized with a tough flat black finish. The barrel must be drilled and tapped but that is it. It fits both the radius and taper of the barrel. I misquoted the price, it is $30 plus another $10 for Priority Mail shipping. The item is the WWG Scout Scope Base 94. Their phone number is 702-798-4570.

I bought one to try on the Rossi as their mount is not the grade of aluminum that WWG uses plus Rossi paints theirs rather than anodizing it. WWG told me it would not work as the barrel taper is different, which was correct as it pointed quite a bit down, but I have a M94 that I want to put a Weaver K4 Scout on.

Racked up another kill last night, my 49th hog of the year, with the Rossi 92/Weaver K4 Scout chambered in 45 Colt. I was watching a spillway on a lake that has seen some action as hogs chase frogs and root up crayfish. Very black night but a line of heavy thunderstorms was approaching with the lighting providing the necessary illumination. A sounder of about 16 hogs came in at about 9:30, right before the weather hit, and I shot this hog at 80-yards.



Got to love the lever scout!

[handirifle]

OK thanks for the additional info.
Nice piggie, and good shooting. Is that red dot on his right side the entry or exit? What caliber is that Win you shot him with?

Nevermind, I re-read your post and saw the 45 Colt part.

[Ranch Dog]

Is that red dot on his right side the entry or exit?

The red dot is a clot that blew out of the entry hole. If you follow the red line from that dot to the lower left, the end of the line is the entry. Behind the shoulder where the heart/lung overlap. Shooting the heavy flat meplat bullets, I typically see as much blood on the entry side of the animal, on the hide and on the ground, as I do on the exit side. They knock a heck of a hole through the critter.

[handirifle]

Yep, I see where you meant. Nice shootin! Yea there's something about those slow heavy bullets that defies what all the magnum experts claim. It just plain kills. That's why those old black powder cartridges were so darn effective.