Rossi 92 cartridge stops

[mran1126]

Is there anyone who has a Rossi model 92 that does't let cartridges slip past the cartridge stop? I have 3 of them and they all do it. I have .357.....and 2 .44 mags. Makes no difference what bullet shape or length. The .357 is the worst. I have to pretty much shoot it single shot. But I have to watch all of them before I close the bolt because if I don't see that slipped cartridge, I get a locked up action. Are 1873's prone to this too? Just wondering. It's pretty irritating not to be able to just lever rounds through them. Don't know if there is a competent gunsmith for them in the Seattle area. Thanks for any insight.

[earlmck]

I also have 3 of the Rossi '92s and that is not a problem with any of them. Have you (or anyone else) disassembled/ re-assembled your rifles? Just wondering because I'm thinking you could create your problem through getting the cartridge stop spring in the wrong way. That spring would be the first thing I'd be checking if those were my rifles: its job is to get the cartridge stop out there to stop the cartridge from doing what yours are doing.

[mran1126]

The only one that has had any work done on it was the .357 and that was because of the cartridge stop problem..2 different gunsmiths.....neither one of them found or corrected the problem. The other 2 have never had anything done to them. I might try to replace the cartridge stop myself. But maybe the guide should be replaced too. Never took one apart before. I have Nate's DVD though. I don't know what else could cause that problem other than the stop or spring.

[AJMD429]

Hope this doesn't come across as a dumb question or insult, but do you cycle the lever FULLY forward...? My Rossi rifles all have a seemingly-definite 'end-point' on the forward throw of the lever, where the cartridge is just sitting in the lower receiver, but push the lever forcefully forward more and the cartridge feeds the rest of the way. Closing the lever before that gets you an empty chamber.

That really threw me at first, being used to Marlins.

[Tycer]

Hope this doesn't come across as a dumb question or insult, but do you cycle the lever FULLY forward...? My Rossi rifles all have a seemingly-definite 'end-point' on the forward throw of the lever, where the cartridge is just sitting in the lower receiver, but push the lever forcefully forward more and the cartridge feeds the rest of the way. Closing the lever before that gets you an empty chamber.

That really threw me at first, being used to Marlins.

That's why the NKJ video has you work on the detent for the cartridge lifter.

[mran1126]

I do cycle correctly. There seems to be no consistent thing I do which would cause that cartridge to slip past the cartridge stop. They even slip past the stop at times when I just load the cartridges. Just so frustrating. Thanks for your comments.

[AJMD429]

I do cycle correctly. There seems to be no consistent thing I do which would cause that cartridge to slip past the cartridge stop. They even slip past the stop at times when I just load the cartridges. Just so frustrating. Thanks for your comments.

Well darn - I'd hoped my idea would be the answer - would have meant a no-money-spent fix for your problem, plus made me feel smart. So much for that...

NKJ doesn't check in here ten times a day like some of us do (I think he actually has a life, or works for a living, or has a family to attend to, or some other non-lever-gun foolishness), but he'll likely chime in before long and tell you what's the deal. I think he could tear down and rebuild a Rossi 92 in his sleep with one hand tied behind his back.

[earlmck]

mran, you must have the worst luck of anybody since Joe Blfpxtslpk. I've never seen a model 92 of either Rossi or Winchester make that let a cartridge by the stop. And all three of yours do it. Ouch! Now I've had a couple Marlins let a cartridge by, and figured out the fix for that. But Marlins use a totally different stop strategy. I'm thinking I'd be pulling out the stop and make sure if operates very freely and doesn't have grit slowing up the "stop" movement. If that looks good I'd then be thinking of sticking on a little weld to extend the stop just a bit farther into the magazine. Obviously I've never had to try any of this -- hopefully somebody here has experienced your symptoms, found the fix, and will chime in on this.

[Griff]

There are two things that stop your cartridges from leaving the magazine pre-maturely. The shape of the cartridge stop, and the cartridge stop spring.

You can install the spring backwards... and it may SEEM like it's doing it's job... but it won't.(1) The upper right portion (as it sits in the gun), of the cartridge stop is curved and slightly under the size of the magainze opening in the receiver. This allows it to hold cartridges in the magazine any time the carrier is at any position except down. They are sometimes not sized quite correctly and even with the stop over in its intended position will let cartridges slip by.

This is due to either slightly undersized rims (dia.) or the stop has either worn or came slightly undersized. My wife's .357 Rossi developed this problem after about 3 years of cowboy shooting. This rifle was used almost EVERY weekend during those 3 years, with at least 50-60 rounds thru it for each match. I corrected it by welding a bead along the arch of the stop, and filing down until it did its job again. I then oil quenched the facing to harden it. It required filing and fitting, many times over until it reliably fed ammo and reliably stopped ammo from slipping under the carrier.

When you install the cartridge stop spring, you want the arch toward the receiver, and the tip of the spring on the outside of the stop's lip, forward of it's pivot point.


As NKJ sez. manufacturing tolerances on the Rossis are not real tightly controlled, and almost no handfitting is done. When several parts are combined into a gun... it might make the assembly rather sloppy. Make sure your spring is capable of pushing the stop over in front of the magazine, and your cartridges have rims that wont allow them thru the mag well when the stop in is position. This might mean you need to get a slightly longer spring, or increase the size of the stop as described above.

Note (1): When I bought my son's Rossi .357 (Interarms), it wouldn't reliably stop cartridges from going under the carrier and often tried to feed two on top! When I took it apart to tune it up, I found the spring installed backwards. Don't ask how, but the stop would seem to be in position, but it lacked any tension to actually stop cartridges. I had to disassemble my wife's gun so I could see how the spring SHOULD have been installed. I know I was putting it in the same way it came out! Frustrating as all get out!

[mran1126]

Thanks so much for the replies. I"m not a welder so maybe I'll take it apart to check that spring. But I also bought a different cartridge stop from a member here. I"ll install it and see how it works. Thanks again for the information.

[Hagler]

mran1126,

These illustrations, from the Browning B92 Factory Service Manual, may also help you:

B92 Cartidge Guides.jpg

B92 Cartidge Guides part 2.jpg

Shawn

[mran1126]

Thanks for the illustrations. Everything is helpful.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

There are two things that stop your cartridges from leaving the magazine pre-maturely. The shape of the cartridge stop, and the cartridge stop spring.

You can install the spring backwards... and it may SEEM like it's doing it's job... but it won't.(1) The upper right portion (as it sits in the gun), of the cartridge stop is curved and slightly under the size of the magainze opening in the receiver. This allows it to hold cartridges in the magazine any time the carrier is at any position except down. They are sometimes not sized quite correctly and even with the stop over in its intended position will let cartridges slip by.

This is due to either slightly undersized rims (dia.) or the stop has either worn or came slightly undersized. My wife's .357 Rossi developed this problem after about 3 years of cowboy shooting. This rifle was used almost EVERY weekend during those 3 years, with at least 50-60 rounds thru it for each match. I corrected it by welding a bead along the arch of the stop, and filing down until it did its job again. I then oil quenched the facing to harden it. It required filing and fitting, many times over until it reliably fed ammo and reliably stopped ammo from slipping under the carrier.

When you install the cartridge stop spring, you want the arch toward the receiver, and the tip of the spring on the outside of the stop's lip, forward of it's pivot point.


As NKJ sez. manufacturing tolerances on the Rossis are not real tightly controlled, and almost no handfitting is done. When several parts are combined into a gun... it might make the assembly rather sloppy. Make sure your spring is capable of pushing the stop over in front of the magazine, and your cartridges have rims that wont allow them thru the mag well when the stop in is position. This might mean you need to get a slightly longer spring, or increase the size of the stop as described above.

Note (1): When I bought my son's Rossi .357 (Interarms), it wouldn't reliably stop cartridges from going under the carrier and often tried to feed two on top! When I took it apart to tune it up, I found the spring installed backwards. Don't ask how, but the stop would seem to be in position, but it lacked any tension to actually stop cartridges. I had to disassemble my wife's gun so I could see how the spring SHOULD have been installed. I know I was putting it in the same way it came out! Frustrating as all get out!

Griff, that's backwards. Look closely at Hagler's picture. The arch goes toward the cartridge guide and the tip of the spring is under the back end of the cart. stop.

To the OP, most likely the problem you are having is because the bolt is not pushing the cart stop out of the way enough to allow another round to leave the mag.

Get my DVD then contact me and I'll walk you through the fix.

[Hagler]

...here is a larger image:

B92 Cartridge stop larger.jpg

Shawn

[Buck Elliott]

FWIW, '73s do NOT share that particular problem, because the carrier/lifter acts as the cartridge stop.. The '66 and '73 can be sensitive to C.O.A.L., but that causes a different set of problems...

[mran1126]

Nate, my problem isn't that rounds don't release from the magazine....the problem is that they slip past the stop and are released before they should. When the lifter rises, I can see the next round already past the cartridge stop. If I don't see that and close the action...that second round ends up under the carrier and locks the action up tight. I need to see why the round in the magazine slips past the cartridge stop before it should. Thanks for your reply.

[Tycer]

Nate, my problem isn't that rounds don't release from the magazine....the problem is that they slip past the stop and are released before they should. When the lifter rises, I can see the next round already past the cartridge stop. If I don't see that and close the action...that second round ends up under the carrier and locks the action up tight. I need to see why the round in the magazine slips past the cartridge stop before it should. Thanks for your reply.

Still get the DVD and let Steve walk you through the fix. He is the most knowledgeable person in the country on the 92 clones.

[Griff]

Thanks, Nate.

I was going by my memory, and I thought it went with the arch to the guide, and tip of the spring under (inboard) of the stop... but when I found that pic, it appeared I mis-remembered. Glad I was wrong and you were here to catch it.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Nate, my problem isn't that rounds don't release from the magazine....the problem is that they slip past the stop and are released before they should. When the lifter rises, I can see the next round already past the cartridge stop. If I don't see that and close the action...that second round ends up under the carrier and locks the action up tight. I need to see why the round in the magazine slips past the cartridge stop before it should. Thanks for your reply.

Still sounds like the cart stop is not swinging out to catch the second one. Here's how it works. When the bolt closes it pushes the stop to allow one from the tube on to the carrier but not all the way. As you open the action the bolt moves off the cart stop to allow it to catch the next round as the one partially on the carrier move on back then up when the carrier rises.
So, the cart stop spring is not working right or the cart stop is not swinging out enough to catch the next round. Check the hindge area for crud that would limit it's travel. If it's clean then you will need to adjust the hindge to allow it to swing out more.

Thanks, Nate.

I was going by my memory, and I thought it went with the arch to the guide, and tip of the spring under (inboard) of the stop... but when I found that pic, it appeared I mis-remembered. Glad I was wrong and you were here to catch it.

Getting old aint for sissy's is it pard.

You gonna be at CAC. We plan to be there.

[mran1126]

Thanks, Nate. I"ll check that hinge.