Home Defense Decision - Want input, please

[MrMurphy]

In the cops case, both were moving, and you shoot as you are trained........center mass. Except for hostage shots, few cops will ever take a head shot unless it's the only target available, and in this case, the guy was coming at him and fully exposed.

Just letting people know while a shotgun is a solid tool, a single chest hit is not ALWAYS terminal.

Only one i've ever seen that was happened to be a single slug from contact distance through the ribs. Gangmember vs gangmember, he ceased to have a heart, lungs and upper GI with one shot and died of rapid blood loss in seconds. The second slug probably didn't help, but the first killed him.


For the original poster, make sure she knows to work that lever like she means it, and check the mag spring a couple times a year if it's kept fully loaded.

[Panzercat]

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

I guess I should have stated that the options I presented were the only choices available to us.

I showed her the 12, the AR and 92....she instinctively knew how to hold and use the '92 and felt the most comfortable with it. Without any instruction! It was a proud moment for me....I think I am going to get her hooked as well as my kids!

So, she now has a '92 with 10 rounds of .45LC, and 40 more in the ready. She is set.

She also has a Glock 26 with two mags of Hornady CD, so I am comfortable now.

Good choice IMO. Leverguns are easy to operate and have a good deal of redundancy against a shell failure. Safety off, jack the shell in and you're ready to rock. Not complex to operate.

[FWiedner]

Best wishes that what you've selected is the best tool for the job you need it to do.

+1 to Mr. DeFresno's (missing?) post.

[stew71]

Only one i've ever seen that was happened to be a single slug from contact distance through the ribs. Gangmember vs gangmember, he ceased to have a heart, lungs and upper GI with one shot and died of rapid blood loss in seconds. The second slug probably didn't help, but the first killed him.

That would certainly ruin one's social schedule.

[Old Time Hunter]

No 1. Dogs...notice plural.

That being said, my wife's pet lion (old felmale) likes to check out people that are not escorted in by one of us.

Regarding which weapon, this is a true story...just a few months ago.

My liberal sister had a couple of intruders intent on making her share her wealth. Broke in at 3am. They knew exactly where to head, but fortunately my BIL installed a silent security system that buzz's the phone next to their bed. Having precious seconds to react, he grabbed his Glock 17 and a loaded magazine and went to meet the culprits. He did, right in the hallway close to my 12 year old niece's door. Because of the anxiety of the moment, he did not get the mag properly seated and though he did manage to get one wild shot off, the mag fell to the floor. Both perps went from full arrest to attack mode. Fortunately my sister had walked out behind her husband and blasted the first perp in the chest with a .410 from her Judge, the second shot hit the second perp in the back. Both perps, jumped up and high tailed it out of there, but the cops had an easy blood trail to follow. Neither perp had life threatening injuries, but the one hit in the chest has a passle of BB's embedded in his chest. Doc said that guy probably would have bought the farm if he did not have a thick leather coat on over thick clothes. His coat had about a 8" pattern on it. Now get this, cops confiscated both their guns!

[rossim92]

I hear they make plastic bullets just for your reason. Not sure, but I think they are used best in revolvers. They are made to help stop unwANTED VISITORS, BUT ARE MADE SO TO NOT GO THROUGH THE NEXT FOUR WALLS IF YOU MISS.

[rossim92]

No 1. Dogs...notice plural. yOU PROTECTING YOU AND YOURS AND THEY TAKE YOUR GUNS!! i don't care who you are, that's not funny.!

That being said, my wife's pet lion (old felmale) likes to check out people that are not escorted in by one of us.

Regarding which weapon, this is a true story...just a few months ago.

My liberal sister had a couple of intruders intent on making her share her wealth. Broke in at 3am. They knew exactly where to head, but fortunately my BIL installed a silent security system that buzz's the phone next to their bed. Having precious seconds to react, he grabbed his Glock 17 and a loaded magazine and went to meet the culprits. He did, right in the hallway close to my 12 year old niece's door. Because of the anxiety of the moment, he did not get the mag properly seated and though he did manage to get one wild shot off, the mag fell to the floor. Both perps went from full arrest to attack mode. Fortunately my sister had walked out behind her husband and blasted the first perp in the chest with a .410 from her Judge, the second shot hit the second perp in the back. Both perps, jumped up and high tailed it out of there, but the cops had an easy blood trail to follow. Neither perp had life threatening injuries, but the one hit in the chest has a passle of BB's embedded in his chest. Doc said that guy probably would have bought the farm if he did not have a thick leather coat on over thick clothes. His coat had about a 8" pattern on it. Now get this, cops confiscated both their guns!

[Griff]

Again, I will re-iterate, a long gun for "inside the house" defense makes less sense than a handgun. It is more cumbersome to move around, it can precede you into a room, and/or trail you as you leave one. It it flat SLOWER to move into a shooting position if carried any how but horizontal, where it becomes its own fulcrum or lever to have it wrenched from the hands of anyone who delays pulling the trigger. A "low ready", in close carry position with both hands on a handgun is much more practical than any long gun when moving from one room to another to check "that unknown noise".

As said earlier, your basic double action revolver is simple, not prone to magazine or feeding problems. Something where all you do is pull the trigger. S&W's Ladysmith's are just what the situation demands. Lightweight, simple to use and effective.

Hopefully, the police have increased their presence and patrols in response to the increase of home break-ins. If not, put your city councilman on speed-dial... call him every day that your wife doesn't see a squad car roll by the house. Make sure your wife is aware of what's going on in the neighborhood during the day. What cars on normally parked on the street, in the driveways, who walks or bicycles around regularly, and calls any abnormal activity to the police. The "squeaky wheel is the one that gets the grease" syndrome works you your benefit here... and your neighbors.

[Panzercat]

Again, I will re-iterate, a long gun for "inside the house" defense makes less sense than a handgun. It is more cumbersome to move around, it can precede you into a room, and/or trail you as you leave one. It it flat SLOWER to move into a shooting position if carried any how but horizontal, where it becomes its own fulcrum or lever to have it wrenched from the hands of anyone who delays pulling the trigger. A "low ready", in close carry position with both hands on a handgun is much more practical than any long gun when moving from one room to another to check "that unknown noise"..

I know you feel the need to go room to room and clear the house, but you don't have to.
Just sayin'.

[Ysabel Kid]

The longer these pieces of trash are successful, the more brazen they will become. Daylight smash-and-grab on empty houses will eventually start happening when occupants are present.

This happened in our neighborhood a few years ago (some will remember my posts on it). The perp actually started targeting homes that were occupied. Hit my neighbor's house when his two children were home alone. Fortunately, they caught the guy a few weeks later. Nice thing about living in the south - and especially South Carolina - is that we don't put up with this nonsense. They charged the guy with three counts of kidnapping (he had also hit a house with a 16 year old girl; thank God he didn't do anything to her). He won't be eligible for parole for 30 years...

[flyfisher66048]

Burglars don't like dogs, especially big, mean sounding ones.

I just got a big, mean-sounding wife instead

Now that was funny!

My wife retired from the Army as a First Sargent. Those poor bastards would not stand a chance.

[MrMurphy]

A carbine in shooting position isn't any longer than a pistol held ready to fire.

Speaking of an AR-15, M1 carbine or a short levergun.

Having gotten into many places M4 first that people didn't think we'd ever fit with rifles......there's generally always a way. Pistols are easier to move with but harder to hit with.

The abovementioned case is why the Judge isn't exactly a great idea. .410 causes messy wounds, and rarely a terminal stopping hit if they really want to keep coming.

Having seen two guys hit by 12 gauge birdshot who were not severely mangled (if they had wished to, they could have kept coming)..... except for possibly a headshot a .410 would never be my first choice.

As to the guy with the G17, why have a round chambered if you're going to leave a mag out..... all the way, or nothing.

[Grizz]

Massad Ayoob weigh in from Backwoods Home Magazine, this is his take on shotguns:

Consider a modern shotgun like Dave Duffy's Remington 870, mounted with a SureFire fore-end which encompasses a powerful white light. Some traditionalists would consider it "tacti-cool," but it makes huge sense when rooting out the proverbial fox in the henhouse at night, and it has obvious home defense advantages. (Just make sure you don't use the gun-mounted light for routine search tasks, since you're pointing a loaded gun at anything centered in the light.)

If the ranch or farm shotgun is a utility firearm, part of that utility lies in home defense. This makes an extended magazine on a slide-action or semiautomatic shotgun a very sensible thing. Back in the day when Los Angeles Police Department kept track of every shot fired by its thousands of officers in the line of duty, they reported that 58% of the shotgun blasts fired from the Ithaca pump guns LAPD issued then, hit their targets. And, remember, LAPD has always been one of our best trained law enforcement agencies in respect to firearms. Most home invasions seem to involve multiple offenders. Up against, say, three armed followers of the Charles Manson school of home invasion, you don't need to be a math major to figure out that a single-shot or double-barrel shotgun may not be the optimum tool for the task, even if we're good enough to duplicate LAPD's hit ratio with a shotgun when in the grip of life-threatening stress. Those who have experience with large, angry bears will tell you that even against a single raging grizzly, you may need more than one or two hits with powerful 12-gauge rifled slugs to make the animal stop attacking.

If I was to reach for a shotgun to "repel boarders" at my own rural home, you can be darn sure it would be one of my autoloaders, its extended magazine affording me eight to ten shots before I had to reload. Yet, we have to remember that defensive shooting, whether against biped or quadruped, is not the only rationale for owning the gun.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob137.html

[JB]

Keep the shotgun handy as well as which ever handgun both your wife and you are most comfortable with. It doesn't have to be as difficult a decision as folks sometime try to make it.

[mikld]

FWIW; my house gun is a .38 Special loaded with 150 gr. DEWC over a stiff load of W231 (I don't bother with the "no handloads for home defence" BS), wide meplate for tissue damage w/o over penetration. My wife kinda took to the snubbie 'cause she can work it; no racking a slide or safeties to manipulate, just point and shoot.

[JohnB]

Well, they caught them!

It was a couple living in a cheap motel on the outskirts of town...both in late 40's, early 50's, white couple.

I saw the loot...mostly jewelry,electronics, crossbows, older long guns, etc.

I am glad they caught them, but part of me wishes they would have come knocking, first....

Thanks for the input!

[Streetstar]

I am glad they caught them, but part of me wishes they would have come knocking, first....

Thanks for the input!

They aint worth the hassle ---- I learned in the first 2 weeks of aikido training long ago that the best fight defense , - is to avoid a fight in the first place.

but keep thinking about this stuff --- the next gang of dirtballs to come down the pike may be better organized

[dennie]

Streetstar, here in Ohio you would need to be very careful engaging anyone outside your house. We cannot even protect our outbuildings, cars, trucks, tractor, equipment, etc. Unless we would be fired upon we would be considered the aggressor if we shot, or shot at, someone. We are to call 911 and stay inside our dwelling. I would advise that everyone check their own state laws re this.
dennie

[madman4570]

Had quite an unexpected outcome yesterday.
Had my wife (and she took a special Handgun Defense course)and two other women(just women that very rarely shoot)like maybe once a month at the club(recreational stuff)

Anyhow,we setup in the pistol range a three different combat sceniros of 20ft/45ft/90ft

For the tests we had them use the following-----------20ga Rem 1100 20" barrel/ Glock 17 9mm/ Colt AR15 .223/Kel-Tec Sub2K .40S&W/ Kel-Tec SU16-B .223/and finally a Ruger 4" GP100 shooting mild .38 Specials.

Very unexpected results------ALL THREE(by a large margain)favored---(and did the best with)----The SU16-B (Bravo)

They all said (that gun just fit them/was easiest to shoot well,handle and felt in a life or death situation (they would want that gun)

They said it just was easiest QUICKLY bringing it to target and hitting the target.
The Shotgun(LT20 w/buck barrel)didn't fit em as well and moved off target after each shot too much ???
The Colt was too big and heavy.
The Sub2K didn't point as well/kicked too much/and trigger pull was weird?????
Both handguns they could'nt hit targets as well and even those light cals (kicked,moved off target way more than the SU16-B) (even my wife)???
My gut feeling is if it wasn't the B model things would have been different.?????

The SU16-B they ALL said fit perfect/came on target with ease/trigger pull smooth/no kick/and the rest they couldn't really explain but said it just was easiest/felt best/and they by reviewing their targets(they did shoot it the best???

In that gun I had the 10rd mag staggered (2 each after each other)Hornady Superformance 53gr/Handloaded 55gr FMJ
In the 9mm----Remington 115gr FMJ
.38 special ----Remington 158gr SWC
.40S&W----Magtech 180gr FMJ
Colt AR15-----Hornady 62gr Match
20ga----Winchester 2.75" 00Buck

Also(I think because of the AK47 design)they thought the SU16-B was the easiest to load/work etc. in a panic situation other than the Ruger GP100 ????????????????(why not the Glock)??????????????????you got me!
Actually when watching them think it was because they all used their hip(butt of gun against hip)left hand holding short forearm and just easy racking the action as with a AK


Anyway-----them be the results here??????????