Reloading question

[jnyork]

I am trying to work up some silhouette loads for my Rossi/Puma 357 mag. I have been reloading for about 50 years and have reloaded probably a hundred thousand rounds or so. However, I have no experience loading handgun cartridges with no cannelure. I just got some Berrys Plated Bullets and gave it a try but my crimping with the RCBS .357 dies did not crimp worth a hoot, still left a raised ridge on the mouth of the cartridge where it had been belled. What kind of a die do I need for this? Thanks

[homefront]

I don't have one of these, but the descriptive sounds like what you want.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/719395 ... 357-magnum

You have me curious about my Lee FCD and whether it will do the same thing. I'll have to check it out.

[EdinCT]

I use the Lee factory crimp die with the 38 WCF and it crimps those bullets very well. You just don't want to overdo it because the plating bond may break.

[Lefty Dude]

Older RCBS dies did not have the roll crimp built-in the seating die. My old 44-40 RCBS die set will not crimp, I found this out the hard way.
I bought this set at a gun show. It is, I believe a first generation RCBS die set.

[jnyork]

I have a carbide 357/38 set from RCBS that I bought sometime in the last 10 years or so. Works just fine with cannelured bullets. I have ordered the Lee die, will see how that goes.

[J35]

If all else fails the Lyman taper crimp die for 357 works great.

I haven't used a roll crimp for years, mild to wild, revolvers and lever's.

Have fun--J

[COSteve]

A taper crimp die like Lee's is great for straight walled pistol cases and plated bullets while a roll crimp will likely cut through the plating and cause problems. You're looking to just remove the bell with a plated bullet but not over crimp the case mouth into the bullet. Over crimping a plated bullet will actually cause the bullet to loosen in the case, not tighten up because the brass case will spring back a bit while the lead bullet core won't.

[jnyork]

Thanks, Steve, that was my problem, the RCBS dies were not totally removing the bell, couldn't seem to get them adjusted just right, leaving a ridge that interferred with smooth feeding in my Puma .357. Looking forward to getting the Lee die.

[Griff]

The Redding taper crimp or Lee Factory crimp dies work great when crimping a jacketed non-cannelure bullet. At any other time, I've found 'em to be meaningless.

[COSteve]

The Redding taper crimp or Lee Factory crimp dies work great when crimping a jacketed non-cannelure bullet. At any other time, I've found 'em to be meaningless.

Actually, for removing the belling on strait walled pistol cases, the Lee FCD is priceless and absolutely necessary to ensure proper feeding.

[Sixgun]

Lee FCD. I have about 20 of 'em and about 10 of the bullets that I use do not have a crimping groove as they designed for bp. The bullets all hold even if I stuff 14 rounds in the mag.----------Sixgun

[mikld]

I wouldn't use a Lee FCD. If you just wanna "crimp" your plated bullets, just use a taper crimp die. I use an excellent Redding .38 cal. taper crimp when I load wadcutters, but it'll work just as good with plated. Currently I'm only shooting plated in my 45 ACP and my 9mm. I too have been reloading for many years and I have never found a need for a "post seatng sizing die". Straight walled, tapered, botleneck; when I adjust my dies properly, I have never had a chambering problem...

[AJMD429]

These Lee 'factory crimp' dies are the best IMHO - for .357 Mag do NOT get the 'regular' FCD's Lee sells for 'pistol' cartridges, but instead special-order the 'rifle' type, which are entirely different in design. Ranch Dog special orders them in bulk now and then (you can order one set yourself for $25 bucks from Lee via their 'special-order' section) and sells them.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=36654

[Charles]

Hard bullets without a cannulure or crimp groove require the use of a taper crimp die. Mine is an RCBS.

[JohndeFresno]

These Lee 'factory crimp' dies are the best IMHO - for .357 Mag do NOT get the 'regular' FCD's Lee sells for 'pistol' cartridges, but instead special-order the 'rifle' type, which are entirely different in design. Ranch Dog special orders them in bulk now and then (you can order one set yourself for $25 bucks from Lee via their 'special-order' section) and sells them.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=36654

+1 - ordered some - they are great!

[AJMD429]

Hard bullets without a cannulure or crimp groove require the use of a taper crimp die. Mine is an RCBS.

Lee claims that their Factory Crimp Dies will do the job, and so far my experience has tended to confirm that.

"Tests demonstrate that even bullets with no cannelure will shoot more accurately if crimped in place with the Lee Factory Crimp Die."

I don't know what the "tests" are to which they refer, or what different constructions of "even bullets with no cannelure" they are referring to, but I've loaded some Barnes solids that way that had cannelures but not where I wanted to crimp. Not enough to tell accuracy-results, but the bullets locked in very solidly.

(I should reiterate that I didn't care for the Lee "pistol-type" Factory Crimp Dies, in particular due to finding some JSP's wound up with the jacket firmly crimped in the case, but the lead bullet wobbly inside the jacket. I'd procrastinated from ordering the "rifle-type" ones from Lee myself, but after I got the "rifle-type" FCD's from RanchDog I found zero of that type problem.)

[Old Time Hunter]

Lee FCD...no issues.

[Griff]

The Redding taper crimp or Lee Factory crimp dies work great when crimping a jacketed non-cannelure bullet. At any other time, I've found 'em to be meaningless.

Actually, for removing the belling on strait walled pistol cases, the Lee FCD is priceless and absolutely necessary to ensure proper feeding.

We'll have to agree to disagree, taper crimp dies are as effective if you only want to remove the bell, or... you're putting too much bell in the case. I've loaded .44 Spl, .44Mag, .45Colt, .357Mag and .38Spl, plus .45ACP and have never had trouble getting the bell out with either taper crimp or roll crimp dies as supplied by RCBS, Lyman or Redding. The key, IMO, is to minimize the amount of bell you put in the case. Anything in excess of what's needed to start the bullet is too much. Even the close-up of the belled case (photo #2) in my thread on Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment has almost twice the bell necessary, but I wanted to clearly show the bell. What I normally use is just enough so the inside of the case clears the outside of the bullet. But ease of starting the bullet isn't the reason you really want to minimize the bell, it so that you don't excessively work the brass, hardening it, and developing cracks in the mouth. The very last time I every cracked a case mouth, was when I fed a .44 Mag thru my Dillon with .45Colt dies!

Since I never used a Lee FCD until I bought one to try with my .30-30s, and have reloaded for closer to 40 years than I care to admit, and never felt the need for one, (nor feel any need for them now), I couldn't agree that they're "absolutely necessary".

[COSteve]

We agree on more than you might think. I too put just the minimal bell on my cases. What I use the Lee FCD for is to just 'kiss' the case mouth to return remove the small bell. I don't want any extra taper because 1, the lead plated bullets don't spring back, and 2, the cases index of the case mouth and I want them straight to do their job correctly. That said, leaving even a tiny bell can cause a issue during feeding where the case doesn't seat all the way easily. That's why I believe that using a FCD is prudent.

[Boreman]

Lee FCD,no problems !!!!!!!!!!!

[mikld]

Lee FCD for handgun calibers; bandaid fix for a problem that needs to be corrected elsewhere.

Lee FCD for rifle/bottlenecked (and Ranch Dogs specials) are collet style and a very effective, accurate method of crimping...

jes my .02 worth of stuff...

[oneyeopn]

I get a pretty good roll crimp out of my Lee bullet seating dies, I used to use the FCD but found I was putting too much tension on the bullets, adjusted my bullet seating dies to get the good roll crimp and was able to remove a step in my reloading. I still use the FCD on certain bullets but not near as often as I used to, Trying to stay with bullets that have a cannalure. I have only been loading 6 years but still just use jacketed ammo. From what I understand the rules change with the lead bullets and I haven't started studying that hard, when to use a gas check, when not necessary, when to resize. With the 45 colt I have read that for great accuracy you start with a .454 and resize to .452 and install a gas check. I am comfortable with my jacketed rounds and they are giving me great accuracy. A couple of guys that I know that have been reloading for years tell me I need to shoot lead bullets, but it seems like I would have to learn reloading all over again and I am just now becoming comfortable with what I am doing. Maybe excessively cautious but comfortable with the caution also!

[Griff]

..it seems like I would have to learn reloading all over again and I am just now becoming comfortable with what I am doing...

Not even close. The only thing you need to watch are: velocity (below ~1400fps for pure lead w/o gas-checks) and maybe a "bit" more bell in the mouth so you dont shave lead off the base of the bullet. Basically, if want to match the velocity of full-house jacketed rounds, use a gas-check, if you don't, lead makes for great plinking a a fraction of the cost of jacketed bullets.

For .45 Colt, (as your example implies), you need to know what your groove diameter is. The original groove diameter for .45 Colt was .454, and some replicas are built to this same spec. However, since WWII most .45Colt guns have been built with a .451 (or .4515), groove diameter to match the 45ACP round. The softer the lead, the larger you can actually go... soft lead .454 bullets will shoot just fine from guns with a .451 groove diameter. You just want to watch your velocity so you don't have a lot of leading left in the barrel.

Lube is as important as the bullet alloy. If you're not into casting, just find a reputable caster (bullet supplier) and order your bullets based on his recommendations for lube and hardness based on your projected velocity. Start with small quantities until you find bullets that work well and meet your needs. One of my friends casts commercially, he'll often give me a few to test out, or offer me stuff he's not sure of at a reduced cost, but then, he knows I also cast, and enjoy experimenting with other designs and lubes, etc.

It ain't rocket science.

[oneyeopn]

..it seems like I would have to learn reloading all over again and I am just now becoming comfortable with what I am doing...

Not even close. The only thing you need to watch are: velocity (below ~1400fps for pure lead w/o gas-checks) and maybe a "bit" more bell in the mouth so you dont shave lead off the base of the bullet. Basically, if want to match the velocity of full-house jacketed rounds, use a gas-check, if you don't, lead makes for great plinking a a fraction of the cost of jacketed bullets.

For .45 Colt, (as your example implies), you need to know what your groove diameter is. The original groove diameter for .45 Colt was .454, and some replicas are built to this same spec. However, since WWII most .45Colt guns have been built with a .451 (or .4515), groove diameter to match the 45ACP round. The softer the lead, the larger you can actually go... soft lead .454 bullets will shoot just fine from guns with a .451 groove diameter. You just want to watch your velocity so you don't have a lot of leading left in the barrel.

Lube is as important as the bullet alloy. If you're not into casting, just find a reputable caster (bullet supplier) and order your bullets based on his recommendations for lube and hardness based on your projected velocity. Start with small quantities until you find bullets that work well and meet your needs. One of my friends casts commercially, he'll often give me a few to test out, or offer me stuff he's not sure of at a reduced cost, but then, he knows I also cast, and enjoy experimenting with other designs and lubes, etc.

It ain't rocket science.

thanks...I have purchased the Lyman Reloading guide and Modern Reloading by richard lee and am reading them cover to cover, I really am enjoying reloading and then shooting and seeing what I come up with. I am a 100% disabled vet and this is the first year I have hunted deer during handicapped season which is going on right now. It is also the first year where every rifle I am taking with me has rounds that I have loaded and practiced with....I am very stoked. I may try lead this winter but it seems that every lead bullet I look at they want to sell you 100 or 500 and I am not interested in that many but I will check it out. thanks

[AJMD429]

...I have purchased the Lyman Reloading guide and Modern Reloading by richard lee and am reading them cover to cover...

I think THOSE two are the best two published manuals to read in terms of overall 'information'; maybe add the Barnes manual if you do want to use lots of their 'solids'.

As far as the actual "reloading data", I differ from many folks and think that on-line sources may be as good as, or better than, the actual reloading manuals. For one thing, corrections are posted immediately to factory web-site data, but you may or may not get an 'update' sent to you with a printed manual. Additionally, unless you ONLY use the exact BRANDS of primer, case, and bullet presented in the data, you are going to still be at risk of being out of the 'recommended' range. For that matter, even using a gun other than the 'test gun' could be an issue. So, for myself, I tend to prefer gathering lots of data using various brands of "large rifle primers", and various brands of "240 grain soft points", using various brands of cartridge cases, list it all out on a spreadsheet, and then decide what I can safely do with the components I actually have on hand. That also means I'll have data from several sources to compare and see if there is a true "consensus", which helps me feel more comfortable setting a 'starting' load and 'maximum' load for my situation. Relying on just one "authoritative" manufacturer's data should be ok as well, but why ignore all the on-line manufacturer's data that is available free or for low-cost (like LoadData.com)...? Also, I do take into account the non-manufacturer load data from sources like this forum, or AmmoGuide.com, which gives me even more perspective and data to use to seek a safe 'consensus' load for my components.

As far as the "Lee Factory Crimp Die" question, it looks like several on the forum here agree with the fact that the "rifle" type FCD's ARE good dies for a variety of bullets, and that the "pistol" type ones may be more problematic. Be aware that for less than the cost of many competitor brands, Lee will ship you a custom-made "rifle" type FCD - even for cartridges they normally offer their "pistol" type FCD for. For some cartridges like .44 Mag, you can get a "rifle" type die that will work ok - the .44-40 FCD Lee sells is of the "rifle" type, vs. the .44 Mag "pistol" type, and the .44-40 will crimp .44 Mags ok (works best if you file a few thousands of an inch off the base of the die so it's easier to set within the ranges you'll want), but it is basically easiest to just order the "rifle" type in the first place.

Other than that, always DOUBLE or even triple-check everything, and don't hesitate to un-do or re-do anything questionable. Keep detailed records - NOT so you can become benchrest champion of the world, as much as just the simple things, like not blowing your gun up when you accidentally use SR-4759 instead of SR-4756 (now really, what idiot numbers these powders, anyway), or not having to pull a bunch of bullets after you realize you used a different brand of bullets and primers than last time.