Converting Marlin 1894 from 44 Mag to 45 Colt...?

[AJMD429]

How hard would that be...?

• Is it just a matter of replacing the barrel with a factory or third-party one in .45 Colt...?
  
  Is such a swap something an 'ordinary' gunsmith should be able to do...?

I ask this since the .45 Colt 1894's are pretty scarce, but I see 'beater' .44 Magnum ones now and again.

[roundup]

Why?

[buckeyeshooter]

just a new barrel. but again Why?

[Dave B]

Why?

Maybe plain ol' fun.
I have no experience with the Marlin, but I think my Win 94 in 45 Colt is much more fun to shoot than a family member's Win 94 Trapper in 44 Mag.

Dave B

[J Miller]

WHY? Well, lets see ......
bigger bore
bigger bullet
can push the bigger bullets at lower pressures to the same velocities as the 44
less noisy
less jarring recoil, 45 is more of hefty shove, the 44 is a kick
the 45s are less picky about feeding different bullet shapes than the 44s.

you can find 44s in non safety models, all the 45s have the CB safety

That should do for now.

Joe

[Hobie]

you can find 44s in non safety models, all the 45s have the CB safety

That's the best reason right there...

[AJMD429]

You can find 44s in non safety models, all the 45s have the CB safety.

Yep, and I have a non-CBS candidate in mind for the conversion all ready.

Does anything other than the barrel need changed? I see the cartridge lifter part sold at MidwayUSA says for .44 Mag or .45 Colt.

What about head-spacing? Think that will be an issue?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

You can find 44s in non safety models, all the 45s have the CB safety.

Yep, and I have a non-CBS candidate in mind for the conversion all ready.

Does anything other than the barrel need changed? I see the cartridge lifter part sold at MidwayUSA sayd for .44 Mag or .45 Colt.

What about head-spacing? Think that will be an issue?

The best option is to have it re-bored to 45lc. But, keep in mind the breech bolt face will also have to be opened slightly to accomodate the larger 45lc rim diameter.
The rims are the same thickness so the headspace will be the same.

I did this recently on an older 44-40 marlin with rough bore. There was just enough let to open it to .452"

[AJMD429]

The best option is to have it re-bored to 45lc. But, keep in mind the breech bolt face will also have to be opened slightly to accomodate the larger 45lc rim diameter.

One problem is that although I would "send my gun off somewhere" if needed, it would be nice to have a local gunsmith do the project, and it's scary enough asking one to replace a barrel, let alone try a re-bore. Hopefully at least anyone investing the serious money it probably takes for that equipment, would be good at using it. Unfortunately, the last few jobs I had local 'smiths do left me with a very bad impression of local talent (just two scope-base installations and one muzzle-brake, and all three were botched mechanically as well as cosmetically.

On the AmmoGuide.com, the .45 Colt cartridge is shown as having a rim diameter of "0.512" and a case base diameter of "0.480", and the .44 Magnum with "0.514" and "0.4569" respectively. So if that's the case, it looks like the rim/case difference is greater for the .44 Mag, but the rim itself is actually the same.

Now I'm confused (I know, nothing new there... )

Here's a MarlinOwners.com thread I've been trying to understand...I thought the 'hood' was up front by the sight, but evidently there's something different going on here...??????

"The Barrel for the 44Mag ( on recent production of the last 20 years) has NO hood, up within the receiver..........consequently, the Bolt has NO " Hood Clearance cut"!.

The 45 Colt barrel HAS a hood, and so the bolt NEEDS to have the clearance cut!..........THAT is what really stopped me in making the conversion to my rifle.........The need to change out the bolt."
-------------
"Well this is an interesting thread for me in that I am getting to learn a bit about the differences and similarities between the 1894 44 and 45. D Harry, thanks for the photo's. My bolt has just "44" stamped on it but thinking that when your gun was made they evidently had both models being made with the barrel hood and so that tells me there isn't any difference in those bolts, the only difference now is the 45 bolt must be machined in the front to fit the hood whereas the new 44 bolt doesn't."

[1894c]

Why?

why not... 45Colt Marlin leverguns can be hard to find and if you find one they may be allot more than a new barrel...or a re-barrel job...i say GO FOR IT... :)

[AJMD429]

From the "Marlin 1894 Owners Manual" as posted on their website . . .

Marlin Parts.jpg

I wonder if the bolt-face is the only difference between them...?

P.S. I wish ROSSI would come out with a similar parts-list for their various models...!

[Griff]

I ain't totally done with my conversions yet Doc... but after just installing the barrel and putting the gun back together to "test" fit all the forend gear (barrel band to forend cap, etc.), I loaded up a bunch of .45 Colt dummy rounds and they fed thru without a problem. No internal changes were necessary.

FWIW, the carrier they now list for the .44Mag just might not be the same one that was installed in the pre-crossbolt safety models...

.514±.010 (.44 Rem.Mag.) vs .512±.012 (.45Colt) with a .524 bolt face on the .44Mag is not likely to cause any interference.

Yep, should be something ANY competent gunsmith could take care of...

Nate, I wnet back to look for any pics I mighta had of the .45 Colt CB barrel as shipped. Didn't have any out of the wrapper... but looking at the back of the barrel in the receiver, I can't see where the gunsmith "cut" anything off that would interfere with the .44Mag bolt. My barrel wouldn't quite make the last 1/8 turn to line up the top flat with the top of the receiver, so the end of the flats needed to be cut some .002-.003 shorter. All set now.

[J Miller]

AJMD,

The "hood" they are talking about is a projection at the top rear of the barrel. It sorta fits into a recess in the top of the receiver just to the rear of the barrel threads.

Joe

[AJMD429]

AJMD,

The "hood" they are talking about is a projection at the top rear of the barrel. It sorta fits into a recess in the top of the receiver just to the rear of the barrel threads.

Joe

Sounds like it would make the breech of the barrel sort of like a beveled magazine well; is it to aid feeding...? It may be interesting if my .44 and .45 barrels differ there...

[J Miller]

From the looks of it, I would guess it was put there to guide the bullet into the chamber. No chamber edge or exposed threads for the bullet to catch on.

If you want I can dig mine out and take a pic or two of it for you.

Joe

[AJMD429]

Thanks, Joe, but I did look at my pre-safety 1970's one and the post-2000 one, and see they left off the 'hood' on my more recent one.

Both appear to feed .44 Mags equally well (if anything, the modern hoodless one feeds slightly better - maybe carrier-wear on the older one).

Interestingly, both ALSO seem to feed .45 Colt factory loads well (of course won't chamber), so hopefully hood-or-no, the new barrel will work ok. The loads were very round-nosed factory 'cowboy' lead loads though, so it could get interesting with the wide-meplat ones I'd ideally like to use.

I would imagine that the reason the newer guns (or at least mine) lack the 'hood' is that it saved money and/or worked better. Most likely worked 'as well' and cost less to make.

If somehow the .45 Colt won't feed well, it looks like one could fill in the area behind the barrel up top with either JB-Weld or even a shaped piece of steel secured by the frontmost scope-base screw, if the area were opened up just a bit around the screw. Hopefully neither will be needed.

[AJMD429]

The more I think on this, the more I'm tempted to try taking the old barrel off myself, and at least trying the new one to see if the timing seems ok. If so, I could use the 'Scotch-tape' method to double-check headspace, and go from there. I'd almost rather ruin it myself than pay a gunsmith to ruin it for me. On the other hand, my local-gunsmith-cynicism may wane, because I've talked to a few guys with suppressors who have had barrel threading and adapters of various sorts installed by a local 'smith, and had good results. Even though it's "just threading", it requires enough meticulous precision to avoid baffle-strikes from misalignment, that they must be decent at basic gunsmithing.

As far as MY 'gunsmithing' skills, the only barrels I've replaced myself to date are ones on Ruger 10/22's and on AR-15's... Thought about doing a Savage 10, but I gather it's about like the AR-15 minus the gas-tube - kind of a no-brainer.

Ultimately, if I'm getting the thing re-finished (Parkerized I think), it will be in the hands of a gunsmith anyway, so may as well pay them to do the barrel-swap. I just still cringe at the sight of the botched things I've had done locally the past few years.

[AJMD429]

Found a thread on Marlinowners that gives lots of info on this exact project...

• http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/1894/ ... arrel+1894

Got a round 20" Micro-groove Marlin barrel coming, too - http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Det ... pid=453900

Gun will be made from a parkerized pre-safety receiver, Cerama-Coated magazine-tube and rail, and barrel comes factory-blued. Wood is a thinned-down stock like the original Marlins had.

[AJMD429]

Well, I did it...

Tried several 'jaws' for the barrel, including a 1/8" thick wrap of lead, clamped inside two pieces of pipe 1" inside diameter inside oak blocks, etc., but the aluminum AR-15 barrel clamps got the job done even though I think they are for 3/4" barrels and the Marlin was 15/16"; the four points of contact did well. Old oak floorboards and 1/2" bolts clamped the receiver.



The only casualty was although I knew to keep the bolt in the receiver so the action wouldn't distort with the heavy clamping pressure, AND I even knew to keep the bolt back a bit so the barrel didn't hit the bolt-face, I didn't realize how far the extractor sticks out, and didn't remove it.

So...

New extractor (I had one in my spare-parts inventory, but need to replace it) = $15
Savings from not paying local gunsmith to do removal $45 and install $45 = -90
So I figure out I'm "ahead" $75...

Unfortunately the local gunsmith talked me into buying (he would have had to rent a set and charge me anyway) a set of "go/no-go gauges" for .45 Colt. Maybe I'm crazy (well, whatever), but it seems like the "no-go" is so thick on the rim that a gun that loose would have the rounds rattling when chambered! I'm not convinced that those gauges will do me much more good than the 'scotch-tape' method, but I'll keep them, since they were "free" due to the savings of doing my own labor (with that kind of creative accounting, I should work for the Bobo administration ).



The finished gun has a parkerized receiver, blued barrel, and CeramaCoated (Wheeler) magazine tube, an original walnut stock with the forend slimmed by a good local gunsmith years ago. Unfortunately, there IS a subtle difference in where the forend hanger dovetail is, as you can see. Not sure what I'm gonna do about that at the moment. Probably get a new forend, I guess...

[J Miller]

If I brought my 94 Winchester over you think we could do a barrel swap on that?
Or, can I borrow your oak floor boards?

Joe

[Chuck 100 yd]

AJMD429 , take a close look at that fore end cap hanger, you may be able to reverse it it the threaded holes are not exactly centered in the dovetail slot.
How about just making a new one (fairly simple part) and use your end cap as a guide to drill and tap it for the screws. Or buy one and weld up the screw holes and re drill and tap???

Nice looking job, Congrats!

[AJMD429]

If I brought my 94 Winchester over you think we could do a barrel swap on that? Or, can I borrow your oak floor boards?

Can borrow, though unless you're here on an otherwise errand, postage would exceed the cost of the four half-inch bolts and scrap oak boards.

The really HARD part was getting the barrel clamped.

[J Miller]

If I brought my 94 Winchester over you think we could do a barrel swap on that? Or, can I borrow your oak floor boards?

Can borrow, though unless you're here on an otherwise errand, postage would exceed the cost of the four half-inch bolts and scrap oak boards.

The really HARD part was getting the barrel clamped.

Since last September we've made maybe 6 trips to or though Indy to Ft Wayne. Got a friend in Indy from the Quilting Board forum that we stop and see.

Been thinking on trying to hook up with you for a lunch but the timing hasn't been right yet.

Since there's nothing here driving to Indy is just four hours of listening to my favorite tapes while my wife takes naps.

I suspect I could grab some bolts and a couple chunks of wood to do what you did. Matter of fact I was thinking along that line, but have been otherwise occupied.
I have that barrel vise I got from MM Wright, all I need to do is bolt it to my work bench.

Maybe I should try to do that barrel swap. Who knows I might succeed.

Joe

[AJMD429]

Maybe I should try to do that barrel swap. Who knows I might succeed.

For me, the hardest part was just getting up the 'nerve' to start. I'd heard horror stories of bent receivers, broken wrenches, and so on, and didn't want to scratch my old barrel to pieces, much less the new one.

It turned out much easier than I'd thought, overall.

I just have to re-hang the forearm now.

[Griff]

Since your hanger holes are aft of the cap holes, you just need to remove some of the wood on the forend. A FLAT rasp should have cutting surfaces on the edges as well as the normally thought of cutting surface. If you rasp normally, around that "lip" on the end of the forend you would remove wood that should be left in place to keep the forend tight. However, what I did, was to take one edge of the rasp and remove that cutting surface, so it would only remove wood on the one plane, as my new forend was a tad long, and the old one was far too short. Pictures will have to wait till I get back to my truck.

[M. M. Wright]

AJMD429,
Looks to me like all you gotta do is take a little wood off to let the fore-end cap come back to where the screws will go in. Anyway, congrats on getting it done. Always a lot satisfaction in doing it yourself.