Gun safety thoughts

[getitdone1]

I'm familiar with never carry a gun with a cartridge in the chamber until your ready to shoot or spot game but think there's an exception.

The exception being if you're hunting by yourself I can't see any danger in carrying a gun with cartridge in the chamber and gun on safety or safety notch. I think it's faster to get your shot off with one in the chamber and also if you see game, and especially fairly close, you can hold trigger back and pull hammer back without making any noise. Of course you have to release trigger so hammer will stay on full cock. With bolt gun, of course, one in chamber eliminates noise of working action when chambering cartridge.

I can understand when there are several in a hunting group, some without much 'gun experience', it would be most safe for all to keep chamber empty untill game is spotted. I'm aware that this is a major 'rule' with all hunting guides I've heard of.

To me the main safety requirement is you never point the muzzle at--or even close--to others you are with and here's where I dislike the way a lot of African hunters carry their guns with gun over their shoulder, muzzle pointing forward and hand around barrel. I think this sometimes has muzzle pointing at people in the group.

To me 'gun experience' and always be conscious of where that muzzle is pointed makes for the most safety.

Don

[Old Ironsights]

Simple...

Never go hunting with a gun that doesn't have an exposed Hammer...

[earlmck]

That's how we've always done it, Don. If we're hunting there's probably one chambered. Nobody hunts with us until they've got a well-developed muzzle-consciousness. A kid tagging along behind me learning to hunt? Well, he doesn't get any ammo to load in the gun until we see something for him (her) to shoot...

[jnyork]

In 60 years of hunting I have never felt the need to have one chambered. If you dont have time to chamber a round, you dont have time to make a carefully aimed shot. I would be real nervous hunting with someone who had a round chambered. No, I wouldn't be hunting with him at all.

Remember, a safety is just another mechanical device that can fail, and sometimes does.

[willygene]

I also carry a handgun every day and yes it is loaded, if it's a simi auto it will have a round in the chamber. And when I hunt I do the same.

[L_Kilkenny]

You do it as you see fit, it's dang hard to go over board with safety. But dang if I'm walking around without one up the pipe and I know nobody that would even think of doing other wise. As a matter of fact I've never seen or heard any hunter safety course or other organization (4H, boy scouts, etc) teaching anything but one in the chamber, safety on, unload when crossing fences. Yes, every year some hunters will get shot while here in Iowa. Most are shot by others taking shots at game, some by crossing fences and handing guns back and forth and some others while still at the truck. None that I can recall would of been prevented by having the chamber empty while actually in the field and hunting.

Around here you aren't putting a slow sneak on critters, taking time to get the perfect rest and control you're breathing. It's see critter (pheasant, rabbit, coyote, deer, whatever, 99% of the time the critter is running), shoulder gun, shoot critter. All in about 1 or 2 seconds. Perfect shot opprotunitties are rare enough that if you wait for em you're going home empty handed. Don't like it, stay home.

[mikld]

In 60 years of hunting I have never felt the need to have one chambered. If you dont have time to chamber a round, you dont have time to make a carefully aimed shot. I would be real nervous hunting with someone who had a round chambered. No, I wouldn't be hunting with him at all.

Remember, a safety is just another mechanical device that can fail, and sometimes does.

Not trying to be a smart alec, but when still hunting/blind hunting, wouldn't working the action of a lever gun or sliding the bolt into position on a bolt action make a lot of noise? I'm not much of a hunter, being a city kid until I was 60 yrs old, and not familiar with the hearing abilities of game (did a little rabbit and squirrel hunting when I visited Texas and know being quiet was a must), wouldn't game hear the action sounds and split? Again, not an arguement, just for my info...

[Old Ironsights]

In 60 years of hunting I have never felt the need to have one chambered. If you dont have time to chamber a round, you dont have time to make a carefully aimed shot. I would be real nervous hunting with someone who had a round chambered. No, I wouldn't be hunting with him at all.

Remember, a safety is just another mechanical device that can fail, and sometimes does.

How about on your Flinchrock?

Out where we were hunting, and in most of the stuff out here in the Wide Open, I agree with you Jerry.

But back east & in some of the other close-in stuff I've hunted, racking a round means a fast running critter in heavy cover.

This is why in any situation where I'm going to be in close cover I want a rifle with a Hammer & half-cock.

[jnyork]

In 60 years of hunting I have never felt the need to have one chambered. If you dont have time to chamber a round, you dont have time to make a carefully aimed shot. I would be real nervous hunting with someone who had a round chambered. No, I wouldn't be hunting with him at all.

Remember, a safety is just another mechanical device that can fail, and sometimes does.

How about on your Flinchrock?


.

Never prime until animal is in sight.

Betcha these "snap" shooters make lot of Rock Springs head shots.

[Old Ironsights]

In 60 years of hunting I have never felt the need to have one chambered. If you dont have time to chamber a round, you dont have time to make a carefully aimed shot. I would be real nervous hunting with someone who had a round chambered. No, I wouldn't be hunting with him at all.

Remember, a safety is just another mechanical device that can fail, and sometimes does.

How about on your Flinchrock?


.

Never prime until animal is in sight.

Betcha these "snap" shooters make lot of Rock Springs head shots.

Not a one. Relax, aim/cock hammer, breath, squeeze. All very quiet. It's how I walked up within 30(-)yds of and shot all 5 deer in IN... The two I shot within seconds of each other would have certainly busted into tight cover if I had had to rack in a round before the first shot.

[getitdone1]

Would you need a safety on a gun if you always kept the cartridge or shell out of chamber until spotting game?

I would say the safety is there to keep you safe while allowing for a round in the chamber for a quick shot.

Too, disengaging safety is a lot easier, quicker and quieter than working the action to chamber a round.

The safest aspect of gun handling is in your mind and with experience. Finger out of trigger guard and muzzle away from people.

The big thing is, if the muzzle is where it should be everything's gonna be alright. Not perfect but you'll never injure or kill someone if the muzzle is always where it should be.

Don

[Old Ironsights]

Would you need a safety on a gun if you always kept the cartridge or shell out of chamber until spotting game?

Nope. But then, I took the safety off of all of my guns except the Mosin, the Savage 99 & the HK91...

I would say the safety is there to keep you safe while allowing for a round in the chamber for a quick shot.

Ish. I've seen safeties get crudded up enough they "slip"... I only use them when clearing the gun.

Too, disengaging safety is a lot easier, quicker and quieter than working the action to chamber a round.

So is thumbing back the Hammer. This IS a Leverguns forum...

The safest aspect of gun handling is in your mind and with experience. Finger out of trigger guard and muzzle away from people.

The big thing is, if the muzzle is where it should be everything's gonna be alright. Not perfect but you'll never injure or kill someone if the muzzle is always where it should be. Don

All true. That said, a properly tuned Bolt Gun can be operated a lot more quietly than a Levergun, so noise there shouldn't be an issue. I wouldn't use my Savage99 in tight quarters unless I had do - and then I probably wouldn't rely on the safety, but rather keep the lever unlocked slightly.

But having been on Drives with trigger-happy shotgun shooters, I'm not all that keen on the "safety-on = safe gun" meme...

[harry]

I would not hunt with someone that is not competent enough to carry a gun with a round in the chamber. Kids excluded, If you treat every gun as if it is loaded.

[getitdone1]

Fastdraw is dangerous ! I know from experience. Nearly shot my foot. I've seen some holsters made especially for fastdraw with a metal plate that would deflect the bullet if you shoot before gun clears holster. That, in itself, tells you it's probably something you shouldn't do.
I think it's strictly for the pros and they aren't foolproof.

Loaded guns in vehicle are dangerous and I don't think should be allowed except for holstered handguns.

Before getting in vehicle, when you unload your gun I think it's best to go off a little distance from the group, point gun away from everyone and then unload it.

Shooting metal and even real hard wood can be dangerous. Bullets sometimes bounce back--I know. Shooting glass objects up close would also be dangerous.

There's a video on YouTube where this guy shoots a 50 cal. BMG at metal plate 100 yds away. The bullet comes back and--I believe--hit his ear protection muffs.

I would say if you shoot a hard kicking gun enough and especially from the bench you could possibly cause shoulder damage. Believe maybe a few people here have experienced this. Present day, special recoil pads--like Limbsaver--have helped much with hard kicking guns. Have one on my 375 H&H and it really does the job. Have heard lots of good reports about these types of pads.

Be careful with your reloads. Reload only when you can concentrate on what you're doing. One time I forgot to put powder in 44 mag case and bullet stuck in barrel of my S&W model 29. If I'd been shooting fast double action it's possible the gun or I or both could have been hurt.

I remembered an incident that occured long ago and it's a little embarrasing to mention it but it fits this subject well. I must have been 10-12 years of age and was rabbit hunting with an uncle and I think another person. I was using my grandpa's single shot 22 (model 67, I believe) and this rabbit gets up and runs across in front of me from right to left. I swung and fired, nearly hitting my uncle. I suppose I new he was over there to my left but being inexperienced and excited I momentarily forgot about him. This is an example of how easy it can be to shoot someone you're hunting with. Ex-Vice President Dick Cheney, I believe, did something similar though with a shotgun and bird hunting.

The lesson to be learned from the above story is always know the location of the people you are hunting with and plan ahead regarding where it's safe and not safe to swing your gun.

Don

[Pitchy]

Empty chamber, never heard of such a thing
Guns are made to be ready to shoot, never had any animal that stood around while i made noise.
That`s what the safety is for, if the person carrying the gun don`t understand how it works they shouldn`t be hunting let along walking behind someone.
Most important is to never point a gun at anything you don`t intend to shoot and that means swinging it past someone, always at the ground or at the sky.

[Borregos]

Empty chamber, never heard of such a thing
Guns are made to be ready to shoot, never had any animal that stood around while i made noise.
That`s what the safety is for, if the person carrying the gun don`t understand how it works they shouldn`t be hunting let along walking behind someone.
Most important is to never point a gun at anything you don`t intend to shoot and that means swinging it past someone, always at the ground or at the sky.

You got that right Pitchy

[crs]

What Pitchy said +1.

Another +, backoff and re-read some of the above posts and you may gain some insight into the correspondents; nuff said.

[Marlin32]

I carry with a round in the chamber and hammer on half-cock. (New Marlin has a safety also)_One reason I like using the levers.
I hunt alot of timber, shots close, most time, you barely have time to mount gun to shoot (sometimes bucks have gone right on past) let alone try to lever one into the chamber.
Might even get by with the lever, if you like shooting deer in heavy timber on the run, but with a bolt action, if you didn't have one in the chamber, you wouldn't be killing any deer.

[Paladin]

That's how we've always done it, Don. If we're hunting there's probably one chambered. Nobody hunts with us until they've got a well-developed muzzle-consciousness. A kid tagging along behind me learning to hunt? Well, he doesn't get any ammo to load in the gun until we see something for him (her) to shoot...

+1

[AJMD429]

Deer-stand hunting - empty chamber until in-stand, then chambered and safety on (Marlin 1894) and hammer down on half-cock. Hear deer, cock hammer and when see deer get gun lined up. Ready to shoot, safety off and pull trigger.

'Stalking' deer - chambered, safety on and hammer down on half-cock. Hear deer, look for it and get gun lined up and cock hammer. Ready to shoot, safety off and pull trigger.

Long range still-hunting with a bolt-action. Chambered once I get settled and aimed at bait or field of fire, with safety on. If I have to move and move the gun around, I'll un-chamber it, since it is no longer pointed at the bait or planned target zone.

I never 'snap-shot' any game with any gun, but suppose if I did, I'd want an exposed-hammer levergun for just that reason.

Never used a semiauto yet for hunting anything but feral cats or dogs, in which case I chambered once the critter was in sight, and once down, un-chambered if still stalking.

[FWiedner]

I carry with one in the chamber, cocked, safety on.

I hunt with one in the chamber, cocked, safety on.

If you do it different, I hope your method works for the way you hunt to maximum effect.

If you don't like the way I do it, no offense intended, but I don't really care.

[Lastmohecken]

I noticed that mainly people that hunt in more open country, where game can be spotted at longer range, then plans made for a closer approach, or taking a rest, are the ones that advocate always carrying with an empty chamber.

Me? I grew up hunting, small game first, in somewhat tight cover, or woodlands, and chances were also limited to only a few sightings of game per hunt, to start with. A gun with an empty chamber would have more then likely cut my meager take in at least half on any given day. The idea of carrying a gun without one in the chamber was practically unheard of, unless you were reading Outdoor Life, maybe by Jack O'Connor on a guided big game hunt or something.

And when I graduated to deer hunting, the game was scarce, and good chances were rare, unlike today, where deer are much more abundant, so it was just natural to have you rifle chamber loaded. Noone carried a gun with an empty chamber, in my part of the country, unless it was a kid, hunting with grownups. When my boy started hunting, I made him carry his Ruger #1 with an empty chamber, but our style of hunting was different then most of my solo hunting was.

This is one reason I prefer leveractions with exposed hammers, as opposed to boltactions with safetys or other action types. Many bolt action safetys are not very good, and you always have a cocked rifle with them, same with semi-autos, and pumps, or even the Ruger #1. And that is one reason, my favorite hunting rifle of all time, is my old steel frame Browning BLR, as it's designed to be carried with the hammer all of the way down, not on even halfcock. It was in the manual on those guns. That way the gun really can't hardly go off, unless the hammer is cocked first. You can load a BLR with one in the chamber, and let the hammer all of the way down, and hit it with a ball peen hammer and it won't go off. I know as I have tried it. That folding hammer stuff they put on the later models was totally unnessary.

Now, on bolt actions, I am not that confortable with some of the safetys, and I have witnessed some Accidental discharges, with those guns, so I don't trust them very much, and might be more inclined to carry with an empty chamber. I even had a model 70 Winchester go off one time when I fliped the wing safety to fire, I jacked another round in and still got my deer on the run, but I have never trusted that safety after that, and that trigger wasn't all that light either.

Above all else, muzzle control is the one thing that will save you, if you ever do have an AD. Never let a gun get pointed at anything you are not willing to shoot.

[piller]

First thing I ever hunted was Pheasant. At 13 years, Dad bought us each our own single shot shotgun. We had to carry it for the first year with it open. We could keep a shell in the chamber, but it was open. When the pheasant got up, we had to close the action, cock the hammer, point, and shoot. It was OK as long as we were put on the other end of the line from the friend Dad hunted with. The friend shot a Franchi 20 gauge and was very quick. If you were beside him, you never got an opportunity to shoot. Dad usually would put us beside him, and he would let us have the first shot. Dad carried an Auto 5 in 12 gauge, and he was good enough to hit the pheasant if we missed, unless it was more than 50 yards away. After we proved we were safe, we were allowed to carry it loaded and action closed the next year. By then we could cock the hammer as we brought it up, and the time factor was no longer there. Hunting in Milo fields in sandy soil, there wasn't much danger of falling and making the hammer hit something hard enough to cause it to go off. Never heard of it happening. Dad had one time when the firing pin had gotten enough grease/dirt/powder residue/crud around it that the gun went off when he put the round in the magazine. Auto 5 shotguns had a feature that when you had the action locked back, you could load a round in the magazine, and it would be automatically chambered. There was a "boom" and the dirt flew. Just as he taught us, Dad was pointing the muzzle at the ground in front of him and away from anyone. Dad put the gun away and just walked with us that morning. I usually carry a round in the chamber when hunting, but I do as many on here do, and use the half-cock, and more importantly, pay attention to my muzzle. I have not had any accidents with a gun, and sure don't want any.

[shooter]

I always have a round in the chamber. It doesn't matter if I'm spot stalking, in a blind, or just walking around in the woods. The number 1 safety is between your ears. If your muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction, there is no possible way for anyone to get hurt with an AD/ND. Keep the safety on, the muzzle in a safe direction, be sure of your target and beyond, and keep your finger off the trigger till you're ready to shoot. IMO, follow those rules and 99.9% there will be no incident. If you like not having one in the chamber, more power to you. Ditto if you prefer one in the chamber. However you can hunt safely is ok with me.

I won't tolerate negligent gun handling with anyone I hunt with, kids included. If a kid can't be responsible with a gun, he either doesn't carry one or he carries it unloaded. I love kids, and generally give them a lot of leeway, but someone can die if a firearms mistake is made, and I will do everything in my power for that not to happen. If they get their feelings hurt, they will get over it.

[pokey]

Empty chamber, never heard of such a thing
Guns are made to be ready to shoot, never had any animal that stood around while i made noise.
That`s what the safety is for, if the person carrying the gun don`t understand how it works they shouldn`t be hunting let along walking behind someone.
Most important is to never point a gun at anything you don`t intend to shoot and that means swinging it past someone, always at the ground or at the sky.

sounds about right.

[horsesoldier03]

I am not trying to be diffucult but honestly, it typically depends on the action/type of weapon, and the type of activity. Most of the time, I keep a round in the chamber when hunting. My daughter is currently 15 and is about the only hunting partner I ever hunt with, typically, when we go hunting, we only take 1 gun between us.

It has been a few years since I went to the hunters safety course with her. I was kind of shocked to find out that currently they teach that the MUZZLE SHOULD ALWAYS BE UP. I questioned the game warden regarding muzzle down and the only answer he could state was that it prevents kids from getting mud in the barrel and then trying to fire it.

IMO, I prefer my daughter to keep the muzzle down for 3 reasons, 1- when a kid shoulders a gun they loose track of where it is pointing behind them, if it is not visible, they do not realize when the muzzle covers something it shouldnt. 2- if a negligent discharge occurs you have no clue where the bullet went, if it is a high power or even a .22 chances are at that trajectory it is well over a couple miles away if there is no overhead obstruction. 3- I would rather be shot in the foot or leg than in the head anytime.

Needless to say we carry our firearms muzzle down with the barrel in our immediate view in a position simular to what the military refers to as the LOW READY position. When hunting with others I am typically open to whatever they are comfortable with for how they carry their weapon, provide they are safe. When it comes to weapons safety, the best statement that I can make is MAINTAIN SITUATIONAL AWARENESS, different situations require different technics, but always ensure it meets the 4 basic rules of gun safety!

[madman4570]

You would be laughed off the mountain if you said that to any people I hunt with.
How bout hunting upland game/birds with some of your friends???????? that shotgun with shot will kill the guy right next to you like any rifle will?

Now, if we are taking very bad walking conditions(say walking down a steep decline or even an incline with ice/snow where you have a very good chance of falling etc.absolutely no problem chamber empty(fine)or say taking a inexperienced shooter out(fine)for them until they are very competent (I like them to use a single)like a TC or a H&R(while they are walking/moving about gun is broke(after they become competent but not yet very experienced (gun is broke/shell in chamber)gun never gets closed until stand is reached and all setup.

When they are setup/action is then closed/hands off hammer/trigger until(that moment comes.To try to load/work an action while a deer is 30yds away is ridiculous.(no one I hunt with young/old experienced or not just gets to the woods without plenty of range time(I have proof of)
To do otherwise is a danger to themselves/people they are hunting with/and the poor animals they will shoot in the butt.

Bottom line------------if you are going to hunt(anything)be familiar with firearms/and demonstrate proper safety practices.

Otherwise----------------need more safety training/range time.

Hunting-------------once it begins----on the hunt(got one in the pipe)(safety on)(muzzle pointed safe direction)(all hunting modes engaged)

When I run into a place(with guide or not)in an actual hunt(in normal hunting conditions) on the hunt/hunting mode engaged (told keep your weapon empty/chamber or not)-------------I won't be there.I am no fool,there are exceptions like say---------
If you are talking hazardous trekking conditions--------------sure/no problem!
If you are talking in Africa trying to make your way through thorn brush with a guides rear two feet from my chin----sure,no problem.
If you are talking normal conditions in a aspen wooded forest on good ground--------------BIG PROBLEM!

I will say,I have found that there are hunters that have hunted all their lives that have horrific safety practices.
Several years ago(a guy I shot a little skeet with PRIOR)quite a while before shooting anything with him again though. So, we were sitting at his kitchen table having a cup of coffee (him/his wife/my brother/me)actually we were there to go get a car he bought that he was trying to drive home and his transmission went south.(we towed him back with our K2500 GMC 4X4)He said oh--its just several miles out in the country(ended up being 20 each way in the sticks)He wanted to operate his car while being towed .(had a HD tow belt)I said nope!Don't want my truck back smashed(I will operate it/brother drive truck/you ride.Time we got back,his brake pads were cooked Hey, when it would get even close(I used them brakes)

His son said dad I want to show Larry my gun(he was 12)his dad said sure,be careful coming down the stairs with it.
He comes into kitchen and you see this Springfield 1903 he is clutching like the kid on the movie Christmas Story with its muzzle waiving all around then pointing at my face. All in one motion I --as in the good old days the Martial Arts mode kicked in ---- head/body movement slipping to the side while in same action grabbing barrel moving it to safe pointing direction which was at the ceiling.(the gun had the safety was off) .
His dad said in kind of a normal tone --------------------Junior???????????
I take the gun put safety on, then want to check gun---cycle the action open (and a 30-06)comes flying out across the table hitting my brothers coffee cupi. Only cartridge in gun.
Just wasn't my or anyone elses day to die!

I said-----------------WTF------Are you guys for real----------
He got mad at me------cause I kinda trashed him on (they need gun training)including him how to educate others.
Actually the following year he did get a Colt 6601 Match HBAR(he and his wife liked my two so much)and I ended up working with them for about 3 months every weekend.(His wife was a better shot than him) and his boy(pretty good too)

[El Chivo]

I think you have to have the chamber loaded on a levergun because it is noisy to advance the action. I use a Handi-Rifle for hunting now and I carry it open with a round on my belt or in my hand. The main thing is it's quiet to load, more important than fast. I hunt that way with my Pardner single shot and I think it's pretty natural. I do a lot of climbing very steep hills and rocks and prefer not to be loaded. If you slip and fall and drop the gun you could shoot yourself. It's a major pain to unload a levergun with that tube mag and the only way being through the chamber and out.

Most accidents happen within 10 yards of the muzzle. Driving to the hunting area is more dangerous. Don't let anyone invite their goofball friends at the last minute.

Several times I have caught deer or coyote in the open while unloaded. I usually have the time to load and aim, which I do for my own edification even if I decide not to shoot. They usually stand there, doing a double take, as if they can't believe I'm there. It's more important to see them first and to be quiet.