The short version: if you're expecting a fight, bring a rifle or shotgun but the 9mm, .357, .40S&W and .45ACP are pretty equal when proper shot placement is used.
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N Frame, 1911, FAL or 870. Take yer pick...FWiedner wrote:Yeah, so when everybody is done shooting and nobody has new intestinal or pericardial access, which one can you beat the bastid to death with?
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Nothing wrong with a big bore but as the hockey players say, it's all about putting the biscuit in the basket.JerryB wrote:Now that is some GOOD reading. I will still carry a big bore when I can.
336bl wrote:...i recently read a study which stated that you can fire 3 rounds out of a Glock within 1.5+ seconds under stress...
Wow.......... I have shot "45 Colt/410 Shot" guns before - and the breakopen one was shooting 12" or larger groups at 25 yards with the .45 Colt loads, using everything from 'Cowboy' loads to 'almost-Casull' loads, so I gave up on it as a practical/hunting gun. When the "Judge" came out though it did give me some interest, as though I knew a .410 slug was about like a vintage .32-20 load in power, a .45 Colt was nothing to sneeze at, and at self-defense distances, even if the long distance to hit rifling was an issue - accuracy of +/- 12" at 25 yards would be +/- 1" at the seven feet more typical of an in-house self-defense contact. (Plus, I still wonder about loading a .45 Colt-level load in a metal .410 shotshell, to get a shorter jump to the rifling...)madman4570 wrote:Kinda makes ya wonder about the Judge or the new Governor from S&W
American Rifleman (March 2012 issue) had an article on the S&W Governor and with the .410 (4----000 Buck) the muzzle energy went from like 350 ftlbs energy with 45ACP or 45 Colt in that short barrel to 950 ftlbs energy with the 000 buck distance taken-- at 12ft.
They said it basically is the exact 1/2 of a full blown 12ga 000 buck load(same velocity)so if you took the numbers the 12ga had divide by half(it still might be a better,close up way to go)they said only 2 of those 000 buck pellets in the vitals(does the deal)???
But----the difference in the Energy(350 vs 950)is nothing to sneeze at!
Heck,maybe have it loaded with first 2 000 buck/next two 45 colt last two 45ACP?????????????
With all the data broken down... it's still a matter of shot placement. And yes, the double tap is still king if you want to be assured of a stop. Which was why it was explained to me that using a Thompson, the rating badge "Expert" was TWO shots on target while on full auto... and "ONE" shot on target, (while on full-auto) was only the "Marksman" badge!awp101 wrote:The short version: if you're expecting a fight, bring a rifle or shotgun but the 9mm, .357, .40S&W and .45ACP are pretty equal when proper shot placement is used.
AJMD429 wrote:Wow.......... I have shot "45 Colt/410 Shot" guns before - and the breakopen one was shooting 12" or larger groups at 25 yards with the .45 Colt loads, using everything from 'Cowboy' loads to 'almost-Casull' loads, so I gave up on it as a practical/hunting gun. When the "Judge" came out though it did give me some interest, as though I knew a .410 slug was about like a vintage .32-20 load in power, a .45 Colt was nothing to sneeze at, and at self-defense distances, even if the long distance to hit rifling was an issue - accuracy of +/- 12" at 25 yards would be +/- 1" at the seven feet more typical of an in-house self-defense contact. (Plus, I still wonder about loading a .45 Colt-level load in a metal .410 shotshell, to get a shorter jump to the rifling...)madman4570 wrote:Kinda makes ya wonder about the Judge or the new Governor from S&W
American Rifleman (March 2012 issue) had an article on the S&W Governor and with the .410 (4----000 Buck) the muzzle energy went from like 350 ftlbs energy with 45ACP or 45 Colt in that short barrel to 950 ftlbs energy with the 000 buck distance taken-- at 12ft.
They said it basically is the exact 1/2 of a full blown 12ga 000 buck load(same velocity)so if you took the numbers the 12ga had divide by half(it still might be a better,close up way to go)they said only 2 of those 000 buck pellets in the vitals(does the deal)???
But----the difference in the Energy(350 vs 950)is nothing to sneeze at!
Heck,maybe have it loaded with first 2 000 buck/next two 45 colt last two 45ACP?????????????
Anyway, interesting about the buckshot loads, but it makes me have a question......
- How come firing a .420 always seems so EASY and like there is virtually no recoil, but firing a 12 gauge is close to 'severe' if in the same breakopen-style gun, even though the 12 gauge likely weighs a bit more. Is there really only twice the recoil of a 410....???????
Anyway, great article - thanks for posting.