POLITICS - Gun hide-outs ... just in case

[Unimog78]

If you really think about the logistics of a total gun confiscation, doesn't it sound like it's not even remotely possible? Any of the guns the government wants (criminals guns) are not traceable so they have no idea who has these things. Are they going to search every single house, apartment, and other dwelling in the US? That would take decades and still not accomplish the job.

[Old Ironsights]

If you really think about the logistics of a total gun confiscation, doesn't it sound like it's not even remotely possible? Any of the guns the government wants (criminals guns) are not traceable so they have no idea who has these things. Are they going to search every single house, apartment, and other dwelling in the US? That would take decades and still not accomplish the job.

Nah. Never total confiscation... we'll just end up with gun laws like England & Oz... you know... "Reasonable" gun laws.

[Idahoser]

[The Lewis]

I didn't read the whole post so excuse me if I am repeating something but...

Although it is alarming this treaty with Canada, I don't think it could help squash the revolution. Our founding fathers stood up and made their own freedom and if we are on the verge of really losing ours I hope there are enough good men left in this country to stand up and make our own freedom again. Of course, I guess it's not freedom we are talking about here but liberty. There is a difference.

OI, that's a nice little smg but let's remember that spray and pray doesn't work, aimed fire my friends, aimed fire. And when the shot heard around the world of this century happens I trust we will all stand up and take aim.

We must first try the vote but failing that....

[Old Ironsights]

[quote="The Lewis"]...OI, that's a nice little smg but let's remember that spray and pray doesn't work, aimed fire my friends, aimed fire. ...quote]

Like the Liberator, the purpose of the SMG is to get aimable weapons.

The SMG gets you a MBR... or clears a room of badguys - getting you a bunch of MBRs. That's all it's for - and it can be built at home.

[Hobie]

Observe magicians, they work through misdirection.

[Jeeps]

If you really think about the logistics of a total gun confiscation, doesn't it sound like it's not even remotely possible? Any of the guns the government wants (criminals guns) are not traceable so they have no idea who has these things. Are they going to search every single house, apartment, and other dwelling in the US? That would take decades and still not accomplish the job.

Good thought, but by the time they start doing it, people who own guns will
be labeled "terrorists" and shunned by the rest of the population.

No one cares how much "force" they use to apprehend terrorists.

Once it's illegal there will be no more practicing or places to get ammo.

If a criminal with a gun breaks into your house and you shoot him with your
"illegal" weapon. The jig is up. You've lost your means of protection and your
freedom all in one act.

Unfortunately the thing that will keep guns legal is people who use them for
crime. As long as there is a need to protect yourself, the general public realizes
nothing does so better than a firearm.

I can only hope that it will be like prohibition, the criminals will run rampant
and can only be controlled by the general populace at arms. Meaning it will
be repealed.

But again, the govt. does not care about crime. They wont care how many
people get killed in robberies and such. As long as the people can't hurt
them as they make the laws they wish to make.

[mescalero1]

OK, maybe go off on a tangent here, maybe because I grew up on the reservation.
I have 4 bows, and I always have the take-down with me when I travel, I know I can get what I need with the bow.
Try it, it is good upper body exercise.
A good bow shooter is a CONFIDENT person

[FWiedner]

Uh... yeah, OK...

...and what happened last time the bow-and-arrow folks took on the U.S. Army?

[Old Ironsights]

Uh... yeah, OK...

...and what happened last time the bow-and-arrow folks took on the U.S. Army?

Rambo did OK against that dude by the waterfall....

[mescalero1]

I was not advocating taking on the US army,
the thread was taking on a we are doomed flavor,
I was only pointing out, you could work your way back uo to gun possesion, with some outdated equipment.
I don't know HOW Rambo got into this :

[jeepnik]

For some things stainless and synthetic are a wonderful thing.

[Blackhawk]

FWIW, I was reading a gander Mtn flyer this morning and they have a package deal of a Mossberg in a PVC type container that can be buried for $350. Its called Just In Case or JIC. Mix that with some chemicals and I'm thinking you might be able to fool dogs and have a good gun buried if you need it.

Johnny

[mklwhite]

...Wading in....

Here is what bothers me about this line of thought. (Both the gun grab and the right-to-bear to keep the Fed in line.)

The Fed makes guns illegal (worst case as hinted at and state earlier in this thread). What are you going to do? Is gun ownership worth you life, and perhaps those around you? I am not saying anything one way or the other, but how hard would it be to imagine another ruby ridge or waco situation? Bow and arrows were brought up. Well you can do some damage with those. Until they decide to come get you in force. If guns were made illegal why would you want them? Not to go hunting. The bow answer to that makes more sense. The only way guns (in this scenario) makes sense is if you think it (the gun grab) would coincide with a total break down of the Fed and civil order. Otherwise, if you think the gun grab happens on Monday and you plan on going to your job, the movies, or McDs later that week, your guns will do you no good. If the Gun Grab happens in a "peaceful" manner people will just fork them over so that their life will go on much as before. (Ask our English and Australian - among others - brothers.) If on the other hand you are willing to run into the woods and take on the unconstitutional Fed enforcers. Well, good luck. The news will read about the gun toting nut job that went anti-gov and tried to take on the world.

I'm I saying fork over your guns. No. I am just asking what you think your plan would be. No answers needed. Just something you need to reflect on. Last time I checked nothing I have could take on a large group of determined and well armed/trained people and expect to win. Not while maintaining my family for sure.

As a side note: I am kind of surprised that BP guns haven't been mentioned in anyones plans since they are not regularly tracked and black powder can be manufactured at home if the supply was ever cut off. If defending your family/home from buglers after a gun grab situation is the (or a) question then a BP revolver could answer that problem nicely.

...heading back to shore before I get in over my head...

[El Chivo]

I have a bumper sticker that reads "They'll take my BANJO when they pry it out of my cold, dead fingers".

Don't have one for my guns.

[PPpastordon]

I have a bumper sticker that reads "They'll take my BANJO when they pry it out of my cold, dead fingers".

Don't have one for my guns.

Sorry you don't have one for your guns. My favorite example of the one for guns is in Men In Black. What makes it so good is the response it gets!

Grace and Peace.

[Hobie]

Hmmm, are my guns worth my life? Is that the question in a nutshell? Well, for me and a bunch of other fellas here our freedoms were worth our lives for a number of years. I gave my life to my country, on demand, for 27½ years. Now, do those freedoms include or are they to be defended by arms? Is the bearing of arms one of those freedoms granted by God and enumerated in the Constitution specifically in the bill of rights? I imagine you know my answer now... What I will be tactically or physically capable of can not be known now. I do promise to do my level best.

[Nazgul]

If you hold the 2nd to be an important right, fight when it comes to it. Don't hide anything. Our forefathers risked everything. many of them lost everything. I just feel that they deserve it for what they risked.

[Travis Morgan]

Just a passing note -- When the Mayor of New Orleans ordered his Police Department to confiscate ALL firearms from all civilians (even law abiding citizens) in the wake of Katrina, NOT ONE of the New Orleans Police Officers refused to obey his order .........

B.S. The New Orleans P.D. and Orleans Parrish Sheriff's dept. were staying away from work and evacuating themselves in DROVES. There was even talk of lawsuits against them for it. Oddly, I think that died when the gun consfiscations made it to the front page.

[bunklocoempire]

Just a passing note -- When the Mayor of New Orleans ordered his Police Department to confiscate ALL firearms from all civilians (even law abiding citizens) in the wake of Katrina, NOT ONE of the New Orleans Police Officers refused to obey his order .........

B.S. The New Orleans P.D. and Orleans Parrish Sheriff's dept. were staying away from work and evacuating themselves in DROVES. There was even talk of lawsuits against them for it. Oddly, I think that died when the gun consfiscations made it to the front page.

And this would be an interesting news story, were there Police that split because of the order given? Or were those certain Police just savin' their own skin?

Bunkloco

[Travis Morgan]

Never saw where they had the chance to say. I expect a few left because of the orders, but I expect most left because of the GIANT HURRICANE!

[mklwhite]

Hmmm, are my guns worth my life? Is that the question in a nutshell? Well, for me and a bunch of other fellas here our freedoms were worth our lives for a number of years....

I think the implied question is is it worth the lives of those you love. That is unless you plan on running away from those you love to wage the fight to keep them out of harms way. Of course if they know where your relatives are (even if out of harms way) they might put your relatives/loved ones to the question about you, your activities and so forth. So even if your decision to bear arms against tyranny does not cost them their lives, it may well their livelihood/lifestyle.

[FWiedner]

Hmmm, are my guns worth my life? Is that the question in a nutshell? Well, for me and a bunch of other fellas here our freedoms were worth our lives for a number of years....

I think the implied question is is it worth the lives of those you love. That is unless you plan on running away from those you love to wage the fight to keep them out of harms way. Of course if they know where your relatives are (even if out of harms way) they might put your relatives/loved ones to the question about you, your activities and so forth. So even if your decision to bear arms against tyranny does not cost them their lives, it may well their livelihood/lifestyle.

Yes.

A man is either resolved to his purpose or he is not, and those closest to him should know where he stands.

What did our forefathers sacrifice for us?

Do we owe them or our posterity any less?

[mescalero1]

The family guys need to take care of thier families,
the lone wolves amongst us need to come together and do the heavy lifting for a while

[mklwhite]

My Southern forefathers (and kin) lost their homes/farms, limbs and lives to guaranty that the Federal government would not have the broad sweeping powers over it's states and citizens to enact a gun grab. Well that didn't work out any better for the aforementioned ancestors than it would for those who would be inclined to fight such another one sided war. Would you be Right to fight? Yes, you would. As were they. Would you lose? Yes, but remembered with honor, I'm sure, except (of course) by those who thought/were told/believed that your rebellion was against the peace, harmony and good of our country and it's precious citizenry.

[FWiedner]

My Southern forefathers (and kin) lost their homes/farms, limbs and lives to guaranty that the Federal government would not have the broad sweeping powers over it's states and citizens to enact a gun grab. Well that didn't work out any better for the aforementioned ancestors than it would for those who would be inclined to fight such another one sided war. Would you be Right to fight? Yes, you would. As were they. Would you lose? Yes, but remembered with honor, I'm sure, except (of course) by those who thought/were told/believed that your rebellion was against the peace, harmony and good of our country and it's precious citizenry.

Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.

If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is certain that you will create a despotic government to be your master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual.

In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all — security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again. [On ancient Athens]

[mklwhite]

This thread sparked a discussion at work Friday. From which the following was said and I think that the sentiment was true enough to bear repeating here.

"Hell is full of Heroes because the government that sent them there is not."

(Hell, of course, simply referring to death not a specific location in the afterlife. Though it could mean the Hell of War I suppose.)

[Travis Morgan]

I think the implied question is is it worth the lives of those you love. That is unless you plan on running away from those you love to wage the fight to keep them out of harms way. Of course if they know where your relatives are (even if out of harms way) they might put your relatives/loved ones to the question about you, your activities and so forth. So even if your decision to bear arms against tyranny does not cost them their lives, it may well their livelihood/lifestyle.

Translated: BAaaaaaaaaa!

[mklwhite]

I think the implied question is is it worth the lives of those you love. That is unless you plan on running away from those you love to wage the fight to keep them out of harms way. Of course if they know where your relatives are (even if out of harms way) they might put your relatives/loved ones to the question about you, your activities and so forth. So even if your decision to bear arms against tyranny does not cost them their lives, it may well their livelihood/lifestyle.

Translated: BAaaaaaaaaa!

Well said! Oh, I see that you missed the post that said that these posts were not my answers to the question, simply points to think on before pounding your chest in a manly way and declaring war upon an APC chuck full of people looking to do you and your's harm. If it came down to war in the streets many would rise up, if it came to legislation many would not. And if you did then you would be fighting a very one sided fight. Of course anytime they could run an APC or light tank up to your house (Waco) while you stand there with your RPG... No. You most likely don't have an RPG. OK Your... um... what do you have? Winny 94? Maybe an EBR? Well whatever it is tell the kids to get out the video camera because they've never seen anything like what is about to happen to you.

When our ancestors fought tyranny (Revolutionary war and War of Northern Aggression) it was a far more even fight. Muzzle loaders against same for the most part. (Ships stayed in the water and cannons were kind of slow.) Numbers mattered. Now things have changed. The Fed and those who would do this would not show up with what you and your buddies have. They would show up with the latest and greatest against any semi organized resistance and make a memory of you. This is of course an exaggerated worst case scenario but if so, when all the chest beating has died down because those who did so have, well, died. Then the resistance can begin and plant the seeds of hopeful change well fertilized with the blood of the obstinate.

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." ~ Winston Churchill

[Hobie]

Hmmm, are my guns worth my life? Is that the question in a nutshell? Well, for me and a bunch of other fellas here our freedoms were worth our lives for a number of years....

I think the implied question is is it worth the lives of those you love. That is unless you plan on running away from those you love to wage the fight to keep them out of harms way. Of course if they know where your relatives are (even if out of harms way) they might put your relatives/loved ones to the question about you, your activities and so forth. So even if your decision to bear arms against tyranny does not cost them their lives, it may well their livelihood/lifestyle.

If it is worth my life is it not worth the lives of my progeny? What good is life if given to evil? While suicidal acts are counter-productive, one can, with thought absent fear and emotion (as much as possible) oppose evil without the certainty of being murdered. In 1775 my family risked much for the Revolution, in 1861, they risked much for their country and have done so often since. Am I to do less? Should I expect less from my grandchildren?

I've been doing some genealogical research and found a number of my wife's ancestral families who were serving in the CSA and were killed or captured and died in captivity (Rock Island must have been a hard place, 3 died there). Did they EXPECT a certain death? Were they conscripted? No. But die they did and their families suffered their absence and lost much for them in their doing of the right thing.

Would you stand between your daughter and a rapist?

PS. I see that you've responded to another post that the state will outgun us. That's true. But resistance is NOT futile. One is successful if one resists as much as if one defeats such people.

[Tycer]

Hmmm, are my guns worth my life? Is that the question in a nutshell? Now, do those freedoms include or are they to be defended by arms? Is the bearing of arms one of those freedoms granted by God and enumerated in the Constitution specifically in the bill of rights? I imagine you know my answer now... What I will be tactically or physically capable of can not be known now. I do promise to do my level best.

As do I.

Well worded. Thank you. Thank you for your service.

[mklwhite]

If it is worth my life is it not worth the lives of my progeny? What good is life if given to evil? While suicidal acts are counter-productive, one can, with thought absent fear and emotion (as much as possible) oppose evil without the certainty of being murdered. In 1775 my family risked much for the Revolution, in 1861, they risked much for their country and have done so often since. Am I to do less? Should I expect less from my grandchildren?

I've been doing some genealogical research and found a number of my wife's ancestral families who were serving in the CSA and were killed or captured and died in captivity (Rock Island must have been a hard place, 3 died there). Did they EXPECT a certain death? Were they conscripted? No. But die they did and their families suffered their absence and lost much for them in their doing of the right thing.

Would you stand between your daughter and a rapist?

PS. I see that you've responded to another post that the state will outgun us. That's true. But resistance is NOT futile. One is successful if one resists as much as if one defeats such people.

I will address the "P.S." first. I agree and believe at resistance is not futile. I have never said otherwise. It is the manner of resistance that I am calling into question. And the question is not one of "should you" or "would you" but "have you thought about...". Where people jump and and say they would shoot the police/army officer who would come for their guns, I ask really? Have you thought this through and that was your best conclusion?

My next point is from your first paragraph. While some may take an Abrahamic approach to progeny I do not. Their lives are only mine to defend. I expect (hope and pray for) grandchildren not martyrs. I expect them to do what is right. Every time. It is the approach to the worst case "gun grab" that I look at in askance.

On the rapist question. I have to ask: What??? Of course i would. The things I would do to that rapist would make a wonderful movie. If you like horror flicks. However if I am in a hurry, maybe I'd just shoot him. But what an odd question. Here it is blown up bigger just to let you know where I would stand on that. Some entity magically appears with my children and a shiny red button. It says push the button and your wife/children live, but half the rest of the world dies. Before the echo of the word "dies" fades I will have pushed that button so hard and fast as to break the darn thing. And I would sleep well that night too. That is where my loyalty lies. Family first. I must look at how my life (or death) would impact them and make the right decision. I am not an island unto myself. I have others to which I am responsible. I hope I am clear on that.

With all that loveliness behind us, the time to change the future is today. Let your vote and voice be heard loud and clear. It may or may not do any good but only time will tell.

"The halt can manage a horse,
the handless a flock,
The deaf be a doughty fighter,
To be blind is better than to burn on a pyre:
There is nothing the dead can do.

More blest are the living than the lifeless,
'tis the living who can keep a cow;
I saw the hearth-fire burn in the rich man's hall
and himself lying dead at the door."

[rhead]

Why would they want the bad press that a gun grab would get them? All they would have to do is keep pushing up the cost of ammo with silly regulations and higher taxes. If they do it slow enough the sheep will never know that they aren't just protecting them. History has shown that they are masters of incremintialism. Just look at wht they have already done to the schools. They have already won the first battle. The average citizen can't read let alone understand the Constitution.

[Travis Morgan]

mklwhite,

You're already lubed up and bent over, aren't you? You sound like the kinda guy that would strike up the band for invaders and claim we just need more laws.

WTF? Are you FRENCH?

[mklwhite]

mklwhite,

You're already lubed up and bent over, aren't you? You sound like the kinda guy that would strike up the band for invaders and claim we just need more laws.

WTF? Are you FRENCH?

It is amazing how well those special ed classes are teaching people to type these days. Now if they could also teach them to read and perhaps comprehend what they read then that would be an accomplishment!

Re-read the posts, with help for all the big words, and you will see that I said that it was "not my opinion". I even said as much so as not to confuse. What that means is it is not what I actually (really) think. With me so far? Try "HeadOn" for that headache if the reading gets to be too much a a strain. What I was doing was posting (that means the words you are reading like right now) that what you should do if such a day happened is to think before acting. Sometimes people act or react without much thought to consequences. Now I know some of the kids on the playground my act before thinking, but if you want to be a big man someday you'll learn that is not what adults (grown-ups) are suppose to do. That being said you'll note that many of those people who also post on this site are currently Law Enforcement Officers or in the military. You will also note that most if not all have avoided saying that they would take up arms against the United States even if they would disagree with that (gun grab) policy. That would be bad. I could go on, but you must be getting sleepy now, and we don't want to all grumpy and with access to guns now do we? Go get some rest. This was all a bad dream and you'll be ok.

[Travis Morgan]

Gee, I hope they kiss you on the neck first. You're grumpy when you have to take the thumb out of your mouth to type!

[mklwhite]

Not when I have to type. Just when attacked. But, since your tagline is from the Bible, I will attempt to borrow from it's advice and turn the (belated) cheek.

I will bring up as a side note, however, that I am not entirely sure that the "Are you French?" thing was a great line. I mean since the French backed a group of people who took up arms against a lawful and functioning government because of an unpopular/unfair policy; I would think you were asking if I condoned such an act. If however it was directed more to the courage to point out problems with or even disagree with a particular issue and saying as much knowing that there would be derision, instead of debate, then I see the comparison.