BATF Shotgun Ban: Public Commentary

[Blaine]

I got this today:


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is inviting public comments on its new rule regarding shotguns. It plans to ban them.

There will be a ban on imports. (Note: watch prices rise on those already in the USA.)

The basis of this ban will be the guns’ semi-automatic status. It the magazine has more than five rounds, the weapon will be banned.

Why? Because the BATF designates these as “military.”

Somehow, I cannot see Sergeant York with a 7-round shotgun taking on the Germans.

Gen. George Patton wore ivory-handled revolvers. I wonder if these are scheduled for a ban.

The guns must be used in sport, only.

Yet there are shooting competitions involving held by national shooting clubs.

Dudley Brown, Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, said if the ATF succeeds with the banning of tactical shotguns it “will be the most dangerous interpretation of the 1968 Gun Control Act ever envisioned and will outlaw thousands of perfectly legitimate home defense shotguns.”
If you want to comment on the proposed ban, send an email to :

shotgunstudy@atf.gov.

[FWiedner]

Looks like there's going to be another cheesy law to be ignored.

[Blaine]

Looks like there's going to be another cheesy law to be ignored.

What 870 tactical? I sold it months ago.

[shooter]

Looks like this is old. Everything I found on the subject was from the beginning of 2011. ATF quit taking public comments in May of 2011, and Congress effectively squashed the idea of banning the imports from my understanding.

http://www.ammoland.com/2011/11/19/litt ... z1wD4cqnZy

[Blaine]

Thx for the update.

[Streetstar]

The hardest hit are the Saiga 12 gauge AK style shotguns --- that seems to be the mission of the ban, to stop those. Why? - i dont know. I doubt there have been more than 5-10 instances of a Saiga involved in crime nationwide , but i could be wrong i guess

[rossim92]

all i have is a mossberg 500 12 ga. pump and a 12 ga topper

[AJMD429]

IThe basis of this ban will be the guns’ semi-automatic status. It the magazine has more than five rounds, the weapon will be banned.

Why? Because the BATF designates these as “military.”

Unfortunately, the dolts in the 'pro-gun' organizations will largely base their objection on:

• the guns are used for 'sporting' purposes, and
  the ban won't accomplish any crime reduction.

Instead, they need to strike the root of the problem:

• It is precisely 'military' guns protected by the Second Amendment - not 'sporting' ones, and
  the federal government should have no role in 'crime' fighting other than the crime of treason.

Shotguns were used in the trenches of WW-I, and the NFA would never have been enacted were it not for:

• the first 'drug war' (against ethanol) had created a huge spike violent gang crime, and
  the defendant in U.S. vs. Miller had a court-appointed attorney who failed to counter the court's claim that the 'sawed-off' shotgun "was not a gun ever used in the military"

[O.S.O.K.]

This just illustrates two things. One, that the gun grabbers are still frothing at the bit to take as many as they can. Second, the NRA and friends are still in a position to stop them.

Put up with the annoying phone calls and support the NRA!

Regardless of whatever you can say about the NRA, you can not argue that it's not been and isn't effective.

[Old Ironsights]

The hardest hit are the Saiga 12 gauge AK style shotguns --- that seems to be the mission of the ban, to stop those. Why? - i dont know. I doubt there have been more than 5-10 instances of a Saiga involved in crime nationwide , but i could be wrong i guess

Easy. Think about it from the Enforcer's POV.

Your job of kicking in doors and "clearing" houses to confiscate X gets exponentially harder when the homeowner as a couple 50rnd drums of 12ga buck & slug at his disposal... and doesn't have to aim at you either.

[El Chivo]

Shotguns were used in the trenches of WW-I

and WWII I believe; I noticed in the re-enactment of Guadalcanal fighting in "The Pacific" the Marines used shotguns to fend off some banzai attackers that made it up to their trench. That series in particular was going for accuracy; I noticed a few things like that. Another was at Pelileu when the Corsairs were taking off and dropping their loads without even bothering to raise their landing gear because the Japs were so close to the end of the runway.

[Grizz]

that's gonna make kel-tec's little pumper even more expensive

I'm converting to the Mossberg 930spx as my main squeeze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h20DECxN8bg

[Blaine]

that's gonna make kel-tec's little pumper even more expensive

I'm converting to the Mossberg 930spx as my main squeeze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h20DECxN8bg

If it's semi-auto, it's a matter of when it jams, not if

[olyinaz]

Shotguns were used in the trenches of WW-I

and WWII I believe; I noticed in the re-enactment of Guadalcanal fighting in "The Pacific" the Marines used shotguns to fend off some banzai attackers that made it up to their trench.

Shotguns were in use long after WWII! My squad leader on the left with a 12ga pump:



Oly

[AJMD429]

Think about it from the Enforcer's POV.

Your job of kicking in doors and "clearing" houses to confiscate X gets exponentially harder when the homeowner as a couple 50rnd drums of 12ga buck & slug at his disposal... and doesn't have to aim at you either.

Yep. Currently there are relatively few people who are getting their doors kicked in, and even fewer who would dream of shooting a LEO, because most are moral upstanding individuals. However, if the doors are being kicked in for more and more victim-less 'crimes' such as the ownership of the wrong type of firearm or magazine, or refusing to give your child whatever vaccine the experts say is best, or choosing to smoke pot instead of drink whiskey, the point comes where the LEO's will no longer enjoy the respect of most citizens, and will instead be viewed as a dangerous threat much like the Gestapo. At that point, the government is well aware that home-defense guns such as shotguns would be used more often, and they don't want them in people's hands.

The idea that they don't want them in 'criminals' hands is of course ludicrous, since by definition criminals don't obey laws anyway, and (thanks to the 'war on drugs') many of today's criminals have become experts in obtaining prohibited items, even if they have to get them overseas and smuggle them here. If anything, the more criminals have and misuse guns, the better it is for the government, assuming the public believes government can help fight crime. Some naive citizens seem to have trouble with the concept that government bureaucracies might actually NOT want the problems they are hired to 'solve' to actually be solved, but it's no different than the Orkin man hoping more roaches and termites are around, since we pay him to come spray for them.

Well, actually it is a bit different, at least the Orkin man wants a temporary decrease in pests after he visits, or you'll switch to another company, even if overall he's glad to see the roach population thrive. With the government, there's no competitor (any private entity threatening to do something better is shut down or laws passed to thwart them), so bad results really don't mean much to them.

[Grizz]

that's gonna make kel-tec's little pumper even more expensive

I'm converting to the Mossberg 930spx as my main squeeze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h20DECxN8bg

If it's semi-auto, it's a matter of when it jams, not if

yeah, you solved that by ONLY using revolvers ?? I don't recall...

pumpers can jam too. the 930 seems to be the 500 with gas pushing the action bars. looks pretty skookum to me...

[Streetstar]

[The idea that they don't want them in 'criminals' hands is of course ludicrous, since by definition criminals don't obey laws anyway, and (thanks to the 'war on drugs') many of today's criminals have become experts in obtaining prohibited items, even if they have to get them overseas and smuggle them here. If anything, the more criminals have and misuse guns, the better it is for the government,

Proof of that is the recent widespread shooting outbreaks reported in Chicago over Memorial weekend ---- doesn't Chicago have some pretty strict handgun guidelines? b-- i dont think the gang bangers cared anything about them

[Old Ironsights]

[The idea that they don't want them in 'criminals' hands is of course ludicrous, since by definition criminals don't obey laws anyway, and (thanks to the 'war on drugs') many of today's criminals have become experts in obtaining prohibited items, even if they have to get them overseas and smuggle them here. If anything, the more criminals have and misuse guns, the better it is for the government,

Proof of that is the recent widespread shooting outbreaks reported in Chicago over Memorial weekend ---- doesn't Chicago have some pretty strict handgun guidelines? b-- i dont think the gang bangers cared anything about them

Yes. Only Politicians, Mobsters, Cops & Gangbangers are allowed to carry handguns. You can't.

[Lastmohecken]

that's gonna make kel-tec's little pumper even more expensive

I'm converting to the Mossberg 930spx as my main squeeze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h20DECxN8bg

If it's semi-auto, it's a matter of when it jams, not if

yeah, you solved that by ONLY using revolvers ?? I don't recall...

pumpers can jam too. the 930 seems to be the 500 with gas pushing the action bars. looks pretty skookum to me...

Yes, I have seen more pumps jam then semi-autos, almost every time a bunch of us guys, get together for a informal trap shoot. And the last 3 pumps I have owned, one was a 97 Winchester, one was a model 12 Winchester, and one was a Remington 870, purchased new and sent back to the factory 3 times and they never did make it right with me. The 97 and the model 12 were ok, and I still own the model 12, but all have jammed on me while shooting doubles, more then once, while I have several semiautos that have been much more reliable, and that's with very little maintance.

My home defense shotgun is a Browning A5, but I keep that old Model 12 loaded too, and stuck in a secondary location, just in case I need it, and can't get to the Auto 5.

However, I would not put my faith in a semi-auto Mossburg, or maybe even a 500, as I have seen too many of the later production Mossburgs jam and even suffer part's breakage to spend good money on one.

[Ray Newman]

From the NRA-ILA:
"The Truth About the Shotgun Ban
"Posted on May 29, 2012

"The NRA-ILA has received many inquiries about blog posts concerning a proposed shotgun import ban, and about the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ solicitation of public comments about this issue. While this outrageous proposal goes to show the Obama administration’s anti-gun agenda, it is not breaking news; the comment period expired more than a year ago. The NRA filed extensive comments opposing the ban. In addition, an appropriations amendment to block the new ban became law in November.

"We encourage all gun owners who are concerned about this issue to sigp to get the latest news from NRA-ILA today!"

Read all 'bout it:
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/artic ... s=&st=&ps=

[Blaine]

IMO, and respectfully, I believe that pump shotgun jams are from short shucking.....However, I'm usually wrong about stuff once a day, and this could be it

[Grizz]

IMO, and respectfully, I believe that pump shotgun jams are from short shucking.....However, I'm usually wrong about stuff once a day, and this could be it

a kind of limp-wristing then, eh?

do you know of specific jamming issues with the 930?

I'm expecting a shot mold in the mail any day now. I'll be casting hard No. 1 buck for a load of 11 pellets in a 2-3/4 hull. That makes it 11 times 7.67mm with better center density than 00.


Grizz