Informal Black Rifle Poll

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri May 18, 2012 3:14 pm

So.....I don't own a EBR, but, I do have an EBShotgun....Mostly just because, but it is loaded and handy (as is several handguns, and a few rifles

)

So...Do you have an EBR:

It's just cool.

Always wanted one.

Self Defense

Really like to Rock and Roll

Hunting applications

Other

Any reason is a good reason to buy a gun....I just wonder if I'm missing out. Personally, I'd prolly get an upper end/accurate/scoped one in .308. I'm just not that impressed with 5.56. At the military range, you could see the bullets blow up on weeds, and little branches and stuff (and the M-16 was NOT a reliable weapon)

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri May 18, 2012 3:31 pm

BlaineG wrote:So...Do you have an EBR:
It's just cool.

Always wanted one.

Self Defense

Really like to Rock and Roll

Hunting applications

Other

No. I don't think they're "cool"; haven't ALWAYS wanted one... Uncle Sugar gave me one in VN, I traded it off for a Tommy Gun... Now THAT was cool! Pistols, shotguns and leverguns can do that job fairly well... I like my rock 'n roll as auditory feeds! Other firearms are more appropriate to my hunting applications... They may be appropriate to others, but not to MINE. Other? Well... yes, the though has crossed my mind for certain uses, target, plinking and such... so one may grace my safe in the future, but I have SO MANY other guns that are higher on the "NEEDED" list, that an EBR may never cross my threshold.

Chris83716 · Post by **Chris83716** » Fri May 18, 2012 3:34 pm

I shoot NRA Highpower and CMP with my A2. Push out 2 pins and swap uppers and it gets used for varmint hunting. Want to just go out and plink? Grab the M4 carbine adjust the stock down to fit the wife or kids. Zero recoil and cheap to shoot.

I would argue they are the "modern day" version of a 30-30 lever action; a light handy rifle with resoanable power that will do most things well enough. (flame suit on after that comparison.

)

Chris

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Fri May 18, 2012 4:07 pm

I have an LMT in 556. I have the M4 config and it has flip up front and rear sights, an EOTech holographic sight and combat sling. It is very kewl!

I can't use it here for hunting, skis aren't allowed.
It is available for home defense.
It would be available for anti-bad guy should it ever be needed.

I think it is great to plink with and might be my security weapon of choice for future property protection

My M1A is in wood and is not a EBR

But it fills a niche for longer range shooting

missionary5155 · Post by **missionary5155** » Fri May 18, 2012 4:23 pm

Greetings
My first center fire was a Marlin 336 in caliber .32 Win Special. But I also have numerous military semi/auto center fires. The Pickle Suit Army handed me a Matty Matel also and I fugured out real fast it was the most accurate repeater I had ever shot. But I was in Armor and was issued that wonderful piece of stamped garbage known as a grease gun which was going to a cook for a 12 guage pump. But yes I have them black things and will keep them about handy. As stated above push 2 pins and I have a super accurate 24 inch scoped rig mounted or a 16 inch with a red dot or a standard A2 in just seconds. Looking to get a 300 Wisper on return up north there. Switch a mag to AP or traser or ball or HP for critters in seconds. Now if that is not versitile then what is. But I will not be trading any lever rifles until the shoulder or elbow refuses to permit an up down movement. Just hard to beat such a friendly and useful action actuated by a lever.
Mike in Peru

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Fri May 18, 2012 4:25 pm

dont have one.....want one...
for plinking...

varmit hunt'n
and when the sh...........well you know!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri May 18, 2012 4:28 pm

I`ve had two AR10`s ,one Armalite and the last one a DPMS.
I liked the Armalite the best but nothin wrong with the other one.
Gander had a bunch of ammo cans with 400 rounds of hard ball in bandiliers for a 100 bucks each so i bought six cans, shot a few hundred then sold the gun with the ammo.
308 is a good hunting round but the rifle is on the heavy side but no worse than a 76 or 86 winchester.
I`ve had two Bushmasters AR-15`s in A4 config and 223 cal. The first one was post ban so when the assult weapon ban went away i bought a new one that i really like.
Haven`t hunted with it mostly because it wasn`t legal here until last year or year before but still haven`t shot a deer with it.
As far as cool or the need it kinda comes down to what lights your board at the time, i go in streeks from cowboy guns too military types.
Good luck on your search

JB · Post by JB » Fri May 18, 2012 4:30 pm

I have one just because I wanted one.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri May 18, 2012 4:31 pm

Nah...I'm not really looking....If I load everything up I have, The Black Helicopter will get me before I run out of shots

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Fri May 18, 2012 4:46 pm

I bought my first AR-15 because I knew I'd want one... some day.

I have several others because I like to build guns from parts and I fell on a great deal on a pile of parts.

As for the .223/5.56mm cartridge, I am something of a fan. As with any other cartridge it is superb within it's range of performance as a light-weight high powered round. It will easily dispatch small and medium-sized creatures at short and medium ranges, and larger things and at longer distances with judicious application. I use a .308 AR type firearm for hog hunting at night.

Personally, I prefer my Mini-14 just for the feel and handling, but we are old friends.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:02 pm

Nope. No EBR.

Mine's GREEN.

I had one just like it when working with my Bundeswehr counterparts while in FRG.

I have it because it's NOT a gas operated gun, it IS a .308 and is accurate as all get out - fully capable of being a decent (if heavy) hunting gun.

Besides, everybody should have at least one Main Battle Rifle just to annoy the Government.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:15 pm

Chris83716 wrote:I would argue they are the "modern day" version of a 30-30 lever action; a light handy rifle with resoanable power that will do most things well enough. (flame suit on after that comparison. )

I agree...!

Part of the appeal is just that - the 'practical' approach.

Also, like any other precision machine, there is much to appreciate, despite the lack of traditional elements like walnut stocks and deeply blued steel.

There is the 'forbidden' factor as well - tell the population that you are about to prohibit ANYthing, and they will stock up on it, whether it be phosphated-detergent, or 'assault' weapons.

IF (and hopefully it is a remote chance) chaos ever came about, they are practical, durable, and would use ammunition likely to be scroungable.

They do exploit (and arguably require, for their fullest potential) 'volume' vs. precision, but sometimes that is what wins the day. Besides, many of them (like the AR-15, and Garand/M1A) are capable of precision shooting rivaling the best bolt or lever actions.

Personally, in an 'ideal world', I wouldn't feel any need to have an EBR, but that would be a world where there was no likelihood of tyranny, anarchy, or war, and no problem with crime. Let me know when there is such a place.

I do feel that for 99.9% of the real-world circumstances PRESENTLY going on in this nation, a levergun in a 357 or 44 or 45 pistol cartridge is perfectly adequate, excepting Bear Country. The problem is that nobody can guarantee what will be going on in the FUTURE.

In the meantime, the EBR's are fun to shoot...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:16 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:I have it because it's NOT a gas operated gun...

It isn't...? How does it work then - I'm not familiar with those.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:18 pm

I bought my first one about a month ago. I never really wanted one until about 2 years ago, but I spent those 2 years over analyzing every company. I just wanted a "high quality" shooter. I decided to "buy local" and bought a Noveske. Probably more quality than I need, but I know I will have no regrets. I'm not even a carbine guy, but this was the right setup for me.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:18 pm

FWiedner wrote:Personally, I prefer my Mini-14 just for the feel and handling, but we are old friends.

I agree, even though the accuracy is nowhere as good. (I am experimenting with a couple aftermarket add-ons though...)

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:23 pm

Me? I like them, alot. I enjoyed shooting them in the Army, (FRG '73-'76) and I enjoy shooting them now. I have two; a 16" Bushmaster A2 HBAR and a DPMS 24" Varmint (or Predator or what ever they call it). The Bushmaster is very accurate, the DPMS is extremely accurate. Absolutely cannot miss prairie dogs up to 200 yards with the DPMS. I've shot them at much greater ranges than that but can't claim 100% hits. Both of mine are .223. I would like to have a 7.62x40WT (Wilson Combat 30 cal) upper in 16, 18, or 20".

Don't have a full length pic of my 16" just this partial to show my brother my co-witness red dot.

Oh, and I do have an evil black shotgun; Mossberg 590A1 with bayonet, of course.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:28 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:I have it because it's NOT a gas operated gun...
It isn't...? How does it work then - I'm not familiar with those.

Roller delayed blowback. HK91/G3

Corrosive ammo doesn't scare me, and I can shoot BP and cast lead bullets through it if I want/need to.

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:31 pm

Bought HBAR for highpower many years ago, too old for competition anymore, cant get into positions, still take it out and shoot offhand a little just to keep it from getting moldy.

Cant get into the black rifle culture, doesn't interest me much.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:37 pm

JB wrote:I have one just because I wanted one.

+1

I built a L1A1 from a British parts kit on an Enterprise Arms upper.
It was a little more complicated than assembling an AR but the results were worth the trouble.
It is reliable and reasonably accurate.
I wouldn't want to have to shlep 10 pounds around for hunting though.

Jack

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri May 18, 2012 5:46 pm

If by EBR you mean something on the AR platform, and it's going to be your only one, skip the 5.56 and move up to the 7.62. At least you can hunt something other than varmits with it (yes, I know the 5.56 is legal for deer somplaces). And since you're going to the 7.62, skip the AR platform and go to the Springfield M1A. I prefer the Scout, as it's a nice compromise with regard to barrel length between the full length and the SOCOM models. But the SOCOM's with all the rails and such are a bit more EBR, if that's what you're looking for.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:09 pm

I own several and different types. AR's, AK's and others.

If you want a really good for the $, get a Saiga .308 and convert to pg configuration or just buy one already "fixed" - you can spend more but you really won't get much more IMHO.

I own them because they can lay down accurate fire better than any other type of arm... And I think we may just be in need of such in the coming days...

damienph · Post by **damienph** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:13 pm

Here in cattle country, they make handy truck guns in .223/5.56 for coyote control.

tman · Post by **tman** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:34 pm

An M4 ain't a bad thing to have, just incase. A blast to shoot, ammo won't break the bank. If it all goes up in flames, and I don't think it will, it aint a bad thing to have handy

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:35 pm

damienph wrote:Here in cattle country, they make handy truck guns in .223/5.56 for coyote control.

We can't have ammo in the rifle..not even in the mag. or tube and empty chamber...we're just too stupid here to do that

So, a mag fed rifle is cool for hunting around here in case you see one while you're driving around. I've got real quick about dropping just one in the chamber on my levers or bolter, but when I get the Model 88 up and running, that will be nice to have that mag ready to pop in , and have follow up shots....also, the reasoning behind my jonesing for a Ruger Scout: 10 round mag, or a 5, or a flush 3 round. Or, a half dozen 10s in a go-bag with another 500 in a ammo can.

(see? I'm getting caught up in the TEOTWAWKI stuff

)

dkmlever · Post by **dkmlever** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:43 pm

Bought my first, probably only one this spring. Armalite flat top, added folding front and rear sites and a holograph screen dot site. Sighted it in and stuck it away. Not going to be used for hunting but god forbid I live out in the country, so just cause I can, it is in reserve.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri May 18, 2012 6:49 pm

dkmlever wrote:Bought my first, probably only one this spring. Armalite flat top, added folding front and rear sites and a holograph screen dot site. Sighted it in and stuck it away. Not going to be used for hunting but god forbid I live out in the country, so just cause I can, it is in reserve.

This may only refer to the old models, but in the rain the holograph scopes get blurry like a windshield with out wipers....But, that was nearly 25 years ago

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri May 18, 2012 7:01 pm

Started off with a Colt SP1 which I liked but was not accurate enough for serious match shoots.
Sold that gun to a Prison Guard that worked at the Elmira,NY Correctional Facility.(Tower)

He paid $630 for it

(saw it at a shoot and he had to have it)I did give him the matching 3X Colt Scope too.
Doubled that and bought a twin set of new 5.56 20" Colt Match Target HBARS(never looked back)

Those two absolutely shoot as accurate as my model 70's
Also I have a 4lb Kel-Tec 16" SU16 in .223/5.56 for a light carry gun loaded with the 53gr Hornady Superformance VMAX that works.

Absolutely need one Blaine.

Try a 20" HB one! Though the carbines are nice too!

redlevel42 · Post by **redlevel42** » Fri May 18, 2012 7:50 pm

I owned one for about four days a few months back. They have never appealed to me, but I had a S&W Model 28 up for trade and a guy offered me a DPMS and a bunch of accessories (magazines, etc.) even up. A young friend said it was a screaming good deal, so I traded for it. I was going to keep it. I shot it a few times. A day or so later, someone on the S&S message board offered a Kimber Pro Carry 1 in trade for an AR. I jumped on it. So my Model 28 turned into an EBR, which in turn turned into a Kimber 1911. I absolutely love the Kimber. I still don't want an AR. They just don't punch my buttons like a 1911 or a revolver or an old lever gun.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:06 pm

BlaineG wrote:
damienph wrote:Here in cattle country, they make handy truck guns in .223/5.56 for coyote control.
We can't have ammo in the rifle..not even in the mag. or tube and empty chamber...we're just too stupid here to do that So, a mag fed rifle is cool for hunting around here in case you see one while you're driving around. I've got real quick about dropping just one in the chamber on my levers or bolter, but when I get the Model 88 up and running, that will be nice to have that mag ready to pop in , and have follow up shots....also, the reasoning behind my jonesing for a Ruger Scout: 10 round mag, or a 5, or a flush 3 round. Or, a half dozen 10s in a go-bag with another 500 in a ammo can. (see? I'm getting caught up in the TEOTWAWKI stuff )

Sounds like you need a 99C or BLR

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:32 pm

I have two:
CAR 15 flattop with 1x scope ( it travels well )
Daewoo K100 with 1x scope (Buffboy had this same set up and kicked himself for letting it go)
OI, so a fluted chamber does not bother you?
I am not trying to pick a fight, but my Remington 788 in .223 shot 9 New Mexico Mule Deer, all
one shot kills
So I am puzzled by the pundits who say it is not suitable for this task?

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:38 pm

I have had some kind of AR since the 80's. I am not a big fan of them but I respect them. They are becoming the Winchester 94 of the younger generation. The M4 in particular is the same light, short, accurate gun we like with a lever.

A lot of kids around here are killing their first deer with an M4 with the stock collapsed all the way down and a red dot sight. The new 223 deer bullets seem to be OK. People shoot hogs with them all the time. I'm sure some of those kids will grow into a lever since they are the signature rifle of professionals.

As far as social applications none of the guys I have talked to who used the M4 in either Iraq or Afghanistan have had any complaints with the gun or the round.

I have never seen a gun with worse trigger reach than an AR. It is clear it was designed by an engineer and some bean counters instead of a rifleman. Despite that you can work them and the 223 is more useful than you might think for game.

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:50 pm

I have 1 genuine Colt AR-15 and while it's not it's not black, I guess it's evil, a pre-ban folding stock AK-47 in .223. Like them both. God Bless.

rodeo kid · Post by **rodeo kid** » Fri May 18, 2012 8:50 pm

I have 1 genuine Colt AR-15 and while it's not it's not black, I guess it's evil, a pre-ban folding stock AK-47 in .223. Like them both. God Bless.

Dewight · Post by **Dewight** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:12 pm

Because I carried a M-16 in Viet Nam.

Panzercat · Post by **Panzercat** » Fri May 18, 2012 10:45 pm

Had a Keltec SU16c... Really nice black rifle. Got it because it filled so many niches a normal black rifle didn't. Should have never gifted it. And since every thread is better with pics...

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Fri May 18, 2012 11:18 pm

Do not like to admit it, but I do have one...just cuz.

Two if you include my Black Shadow...

Three if an AK is considered one even though the stock is wood w/black grip.

Rather have a '73 Win in 44WCF though...

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat May 19, 2012 1:17 am

Old Ironsights wrote:Nope. No EBR.

Mine's GREEN.

I had one just like it when working with my Bundeswehr counterparts while in FRG.

I have it because it's NOT a gas operated gun, it IS a .308 and is accurate as all get out - fully capable of being a decent (if heavy) hunting gun.

Besides, everybody should have at least one Main Battle Rifle just to annoy the Government.

Off the topic a little bit for sure --- but i just love the Chevy Chase/Gregory Hines movie "Deal of the Century" where he is selling the HK-91 to the local revolutionaries

Fun stuff for a 30 year old movie !

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat May 19, 2012 1:41 am

I clicked on "Other" simply because several of the answers applied vs. any one of them.

Oly

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Sat May 19, 2012 1:44 am

don't really need one... :)

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat May 19, 2012 4:22 am

336bl wrote:don't really need one...

Ugh... there's that four-letter word again...

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat May 19, 2012 8:50 am

I happen to have a bunch of free accessories, mags and unlimited supply of 5.56/223 ammo. For me, it is like having a dog I don't have to feed. 5of my close shooting buds really like me and have fancy ones. mines a S&W that was $528 total cost to me. I have about $225 of accessories that cost me zero, and a scope that cost me $63 with outfitter discounts and coupons (Redfield 4x12 AR). I could take it or leave it but circumstantially it's easy for me to own and shoot.

veeman · Post by **veeman** » Sat May 19, 2012 8:51 am

Got my 1st EBR a couple months ago. Had some jingle in my pocket and there it was. Saiga AK47. Goes bang every time, generally pretty accurate, ammo is relatively cheap.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat May 19, 2012 8:56 am

I didn't see the poll yesterday. Is it me, or wasn't it there?

Anyway, the why I have what is traditionally thought of as an EBR is that my kids decided I needed one.

I hadn't handled an AR since the early 70's. Those were M-16's. That's right, the original, without the chromed chamber and bolt assist. While the Air Force got the ball rolling with the M-16, they didn't finish getting rid of the originals until many years later. I think I read somewhere it was the 90's.

I can say this, the current crop are a vast improvment. And, they are much heavier. The original was about 6 1/3 pounds. The A2's are about 7 1/2 pounds, and once today's servicemen and women get done adding stuff to them, they likely weigh as much as my Springfield Scout.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat May 19, 2012 11:33 am

Old Ironsights wrote:

Fascinating - I remember my Calico owners manual describing that action type and saying it was used in some other more famous designs. I'm surprised they don't wear out sooner, but then you're right about nice to not have the gas-blast, especially if the ammo isn't friendly to steel.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sat May 19, 2012 11:47 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Old Ironsights wrote:
Fascinating - I remember my Calico owners manual describing that action type and saying it was used in some other more famous designs. I'm surprised they don't wear out sooner, but then you're right about nice to not have the gas-blast, especially if the ammo isn't friendly to steel.

They rarely wear out at all, much less "sooner".

Some of the US builds HAVE had trouble with improperly hardened parts, but real HKs and later, non-CAI guns don't have that problem.

The biggest "downside" to them is that it's not a reloading-friendly design. Brass life is considerably reduced. But since mine throws the brass about 30 feet to 1:00 I only shoot steel/berdan milsurp out of it anyway.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat May 19, 2012 12:01 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:Sounds like you need a 99C or BLR

Or a RUGER 96 in .44 Magnum...!

Speaking of Levergun EBR's . . . remember THIS thread. . . ?

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=18106

Of course if a levergun can be an 'EBR', what about my integrally-suppressed

Ruger 96 in .22 LR...?

Why do you have an EBR