Native American Indians

[DixieBoy]

In the early 1960's Dad moved the family out to Arizona for a year. I was in the 4th grade in school. We lived in a house in Scottsdale, and right behind the house was an alley, then a vacant lot, and then, what I remember to be a Pima Indian reservation. It took no time at all for us boys (me, my little brother, and one of my new friends) to crawl through the barbed wire fence into the vacant lot, past the tumbleweeds, and out onto the very edge of the reservation.

We were all full of Cowboys and Indians back then, and we had our little Daisy air rifles with us. No pellets or anything, just noise. I remember "attacking" the house closest to the fence a couple times. One time an Indian came out, and just the sight of him scared our little butts so much that we kicked up dust, running back home.

We were just kids then, but since those days, as an adult, I've thought about those times and it just makes me kinda cringe. I mean, after being pushed on to reservations, and all the other stuff that American Indians have had to deal with, here comes a bunch of wet nosed kids to shoot their air rifles at the house. It still makes me cringe.

On the up side, Dad bought a $ 2 watercolor, pastel looking painting from a Navajo one day, out in front of the Western Auto store. Dad loved Arizona, and everything about it. Took us to see and look at everything, lots of time in the countryside, not just tourist stuff, and that was where I learned to shoot from him. There wasn't any more "attacking" the rez after I'd handled a real firearm, even at age 10, I quickly figured that out.

And that auto parts store painting ? It's one of my most prized possessions now. Shows a hogan sitting back from an arroyo, and a little brush arbor to the side. Nice sunset fading in the background. But it's the fact that Dad thought to buy it (he NEVER bought "art") and bring it home, and obviously really liked it. And now that Dad's gone, I feel that this $ 2 painting of the southwest connects all of us in a way. That probably sounds corny, but that's me. - DixieBoy

[piller]

1/16th Cherokee and about 1/128th Lakota. My Great Grandmother on my Mom's side was born on the Trail of Tears, and her parents refused to put her name on the tribal roster, raised her in the "White" culture, and she didn't tell her kids about their heritage. She died when they were in their teens, and the oldest, my Grandmother, raised the younger two. Many years later, my Grandmother found something her Mother had left about her birth if posessions that my Grandmother just had never had time to go through. After my Grandmother's death, the law firm which handled the will was to wait 10 years to tell the 4 daughters. I don't have any pictures of my Grandmother, but she looked a lot like the former leader of the Cherokee tribe who's last name was Mankiller. It is a real tragedy that there seemed no way for both sides to come to an agreement which worked for everyone. In my opinion, it was all the broken treaties which caused all the trouble.

My Grandfather on my Mom's side once lived on old Fort Dodge in Kansas. His Father, a German immigrant, had joined the U.S. Cavalry to gain citizenship, had fought in the civil war, and retired just a couple of weeks before his unit, the 7th Cavalry went on its last and most ill advised ride. My Great Grandfather was in the process of moving to Ft. Dodge and getting settled in when the 7th Cav moved out. Custer was in the wrong in my opinion.

The only reservation I have much experience with is the Kickapoo reservation near Horton, Kansas. They are mostly large strong people. The women are, for the most part, rather pretty when in their 20s and 30s. Alcoholism is rampant, and the jobs are just not to be had. There is not much to do except sit and rot or move out and leave it behind if you can. Neither option is easy.

[2571]

Saw my former school principal in a market 12/24. He remembered me; said, "Hi chief". Talked 3-4 minutes.Told him I was a lawyer, that my daughter had been a lesser scholar, NCAA athlete and is now a stockbroker. As we left, he asked me what my Christian name was.

I was the only Indian in a school of 800 white kids. Everybody -- the janitor, the lunch lady, the teachers & even the principal called me 'Chief'.

Think that got old in pretty short order?

[Bill in Oregon]

2571: Sorry you had to endure this stuff. Sounds like you have had a good life, and your daughter is on her way as well.

[Blaine]

2571: Sorry you had to endure this stuff. Sounds like you have had a good life, and your daughter is on her way as well.

The best revenge against idiots is to live well and prosper. You don't throw away your life and make excuses.

[vancelw]

Saw my former school principal in a market 12/24. He remembered me; said, "Hi chief". Talked 3-4 minutes.Told him I was a lawyer, that my daughter had been a lesser scholar, NCAA athlete and is now a stockbroker. As we left, he asked me what my Christian name was.

I was the only Indian in a school of 800 white kids. Everybody -- the janitor, the lunch lady, the teachers & even the principal called me 'Chief'.

Think that got old in pretty short order?

Oh I bet. We moved back to Montana when I was in high school. The "tough" kids called me Tex. I finally got in a fight with the biggest one time when I rolled my eyes and said, "Yeah, I never heard THAT before." If i'd have thought before I said it I probably wouldn't have said it, but as it turned out I never got called Tex anymore after that. Being a Texan dang sure ain't nothing to be ashamed of, but you're right, it sure gets old. And I wasn't quite as out numbered.

[2ndovc]

2ndovc,
She had a different agenda.
Your lot in life is to accept that, and move on.
You have Blondie, you got the better part of the deal!

You sure got that right. From cold and ridged to warm and loving. Like trading a Pinto for a Porche 911 Turbo! Second gen. German beauty. It's all good!


Would still like to know why but it's not as important as it used to be.

jb

[Mescalero]

Yeah,
I no longer care about my love.

[shooter]

Though I look nothing like it, I have quite a bit of Cherokee blood, as well as a little of Choctaw and Comanche. My dad works a lot with the Mescalero tribe out in New Mexico. The Indians got a raw deal, IMO, but, as with everything else they have brought some of the misery on themselves. I don't know all the politics of it, and I've never spent any time on the rez, but where does all the money from the oil and casinos go? My guess is that all that money is supposed to be divided up between the people, but ends up in a select few pockets. Not that it matters all that much. The reservations are just prime examples of socialism in action.

I also believe that the rampant alcoholism was encouraged intentionally at first. If the Indians were constantly drunk, they were no good to put up a fight. Made it easier to "tame" them in the white man's eyes. Unfortunately alcoholism tends to run in families, so you get generation after generation of alcoholics, plus the life they are forced to live on the rez doesn't do much to discourage it either. I imagine it's pretty depressing.

Funny thing is, after all the broken promises to the Indians, we are still supposed to trust the government.

[Mescalero]

Someone mentioned it, maybe Old Ranger.
Politics on the res. are a free for all like you have never seen.
If the consequences were not so serious, it would be comical.

[bdhold]

Took the family to New Mexico when my older daughter was 6. Hauling the pop-up and my friend's family drove along with us.
The whole drive we were talking about Native Americans making sure we were improving our daughter's sensitivities.
After an afternoon in the Natural History Museum in Albuquerque, we drove on to Cottonwood Campground on the San Juan, stopping first at the Super S in Bloomfield to top our camp stores.
We were the only, um, non-Native Americans in the store.
Our daughter comes running out of produce, with an ear of corn in each hand.
"MOM - DAD - THIS IS INDIAN CORN. WE SHOULD BUY SOME AND GIVE IT TO THE INDIANS"
There was nary a tooth showing in the establishment, and we quietly paid our tab and slipped out.
With our scalps.

[getitdone1]

For years I thought all the scalping that happened in the Old West was done by the Indians. Now I know better and I'm not sure which side started it although I think this 'custom' goes back a long ways with the Indians--even before the white man showed-up.

I enjoyed the Dances With Wolves movie and sure many here did also. Costner shooting at buffalo with his 44 rimfire didn't impress me too much.

Don

[bdhold]

Dances with Wolves was good, and so was Little Big Man.

Nobility of Native Americans? Nature is more accurate. Lord of the Flies. They were living life as nature led them.
They got along. We increased the population density and made getting along tougher.

[BAGTIC]

There are more Indians living now than at any time in history. Of course that depends on how we define Indians. If I added 15 gallons of water to one gallon of gasoline what would I have, diluted gasoline or diluted water.

I am officially (1/16) Indian myself. The other 15/16 is assorted European varieties. They managed to change with the times. New lands, new languages, new customs, new occupations. Of course they were motivated because were focused on the future both of themselves and their children. Many Indians are hopelessly mired in the past trapped by imaginary past glories, living off the accomplishments of their ancestors instead of making their own today. You can not get very far very fast if you spend all your time looking in the rear view mirror. Of course much of this attitude is fostered by the self interests of both tribal and government leaders with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. It is very much the same as poor Blacks who are continually refighting slavery, the Civil War, racism while being egged on by the likes of Al "Tawana" Sharpton who is more concerned about maintaining his political base than on effecting real lasting benefits for those who need them.

[2571]

2571: Sorry you had to endure this stuff. Sounds like you have had a good life, and your daughter is on her way as well.

Thanks. I'm sure they meant litle harm.
__

Ever notice at every Powow, there's at least several guys waving little American flags while they dance in those funny threads?

Varied history with us , but this is the best country in the world. Thanks y'all.

[Idiot]

There are more American Indians alive today than there were at first European contact. Dilution has nothing to do with it - just numbers - there are more.

The primary reason for poverty in Indian Country is socialism, pure and simple. It no longer has anything to do with race, oppression, or an evil federal government. Most Indians living on the reservation are generations removed from full productivity, caused by socialism, which results in poverty. With absolutely no incentive to better ones self, productivity goes down, and the cycle of poverty begins.

Let me give you an example. Bill owns a four bedroom house next to Jim in the same housing development on the reservation. Bill works and makes a good living, while Jim doesn't work and spends most of his time drunk. Bill pays a full mortgage, let say $500, for his house. Jim has the same house, but only pays a minimum mortgage amount of $30, and because he is under-employed receives a stipend of $60 a month to pay his utilities. This goes on and on throughout the entire reservation economy. The producers are punished and the losers are rewarded. On top of that, class envy is rampant. If you work and own nice things, you are hated by those who don't work and don't own much. So, what's the final result, the producers leave the reservation, leaving behind the unproductive to bring up the next generation. This has nothing to do with race. This scenario is played out anywhere socialism takes hold, and the results are the same, poverty, substance abuse, and all the other ills of a failed economic system.

I remember leaving the reservation in the 90's and telling my wife, "now that I've finally left the rez, Bill Clinton is trying to turn the entire country into the rez." It's true and continuing, and if you want to know where it ends, visit an Indian Reservation.

[bdhold]

2571, sorry for what you're having to endure on the forum today.

[Blaine]

The producers are punished and the losers are rewarded. On top of that, class envy is rampant. If you work and own nice things, you are hated by those who don't work and don't own much. So, what's the final result, the producers leave the reservation, leaving behind the unproductive to bring up the next generation. This has nothing to do with race. This scenario is played out anywhere socialism takes hold, and the results are the same, poverty, substance abuse, and all the other ills of a failed economic system.

Coming to our Nation soon....the American Res. Well, a comfortable, well fed majority let it happen, and will not understand it when it gets here.

[Old Ranger]

Whitko Washieu....Ho neish'ta me'yha....

He'sheua quelo,

Shunka Wakan Wanagee'

[GonnePhishin]

Old Ranger,

Would you care to translate for us?

[tomtex]

Drug and alcohol abuse on the Navajo Res,ervation is at or above 50%. The suicide rate is several times that of white America. Their "simple life" is not such a happy one as folks would suppose. I lived in Farmington New Mexico for several years and worked among the Navajo on frequest occasions.

Most of their hardship is cause by, Government hand outs, and note being able to own land on the reservation.

[Old Ironsights]

Drug and alcohol abuse on the Navajo Res,ervation is at or above 50%. The suicide rate is several times that of white America. Their "simple life" is not such a happy one as folks would suppose. I lived in Farmington New Mexico for several years and worked among the Navajo on frequest occasions.

Most of their hardship is cause by, Government hand outs, and note being able to own land on the reservation.

The concept of "owning" land is a big part of the problem. That's a white man concept.

[C. Cash]

Edited for being OT!

[C. Cash]

And I'm sure as many depredations occurring upon the Native Americans there as well.

[2571]

2571, sorry for what you're having to endure on the forum today.

My uncle kept getting elected to band council even into his nineties. I saw him quell a raucous crowd by a waive of his hand when somebody had been talking nonsense and everybody was yelling for that person to yield the floor.

The crowd quieted, somebody yelled to eject the unwanted speaker. My uncle said, " No. Let him speak. It is the American way -- everybody gets to run his mouth" Everybody laughed & the speaker made his point and order was restored.

I asked my uncle frome where such wisdom had come, hoping to hear an ancient tale. Instead, he smiled, and said, "From a Rockford Files episode. I like James Garner"

[Old Savage]

There you go - a bit of humor and an unexpected turn.

[bdhold]

it's the American way.

[FWiedner]

2571, sorry for what you're having to endure on the forum today.

Feelin guilty about somethin'... ?

[bdhold]

I beg your pardon?

[piller]

Despite everything else, we have had Native Americans volunteer for all the wars we have fought against any other country. Whatever else you might think, the Native Americans do fight for us when the time comes. The WindTalkers really helped win the war against the National Socialists of Germany.

[FWiedner]

I beg your pardon?

Just a lame attempt at humor...

[bdhold]

fair enough, friend.

[Charles]

Drug and alcohol abuse on the Navajo Res,ervation is at or above 50%. The suicide rate is several times that of white America. Their "simple life" is not such a happy one as folks would suppose. I lived in Farmington New Mexico for several years and worked among the Navajo on frequest occasions.

Most of their hardship is cause by, Government hand outs, and note being able to own land on the reservation.

I think the reservation system and BIA truly suck, but nobody is forcing those folks to drink and drug into oblivion. At the end of the day, there is still personal responsibility to play the cards you are delt in this best possible way. There are Navajo who resist sinking into a drug/booze stupor and live a good life, even with the restrictions of reservation life. They have choices.

[bdhold]

gee, I know a Navajo who manages a 400-acre chemical plant, which also includes a 450 MW combined cycle power plant, on the Texas coast.

[Mescalero]

Kind of like my Doctor.