Targeting the 1873 Winchester Uberti 45 Colt..........

[hightime]

I'm not sure if I should be pleased or not. At only thirty yards and several different loads, two to three inch groups is all I can get with a bench rest and the buckhorn sights. I just cleaned the lead out, it took a lot. I thought that would help a lot, now I'm not so sure.

With six sets of six rounds. All loaded with 8.5 Unique and three different bullets and each of those loaded six with wads and six without. The three bullets were 230 gr. rn '' .455 dia. my own casting'', and Remington 250 gr RN .455 dia. swaged. and then Red River 250 gr. RN FP in .454 dia.
I was undecided which shot the best.

First 230 rn .455dia 8.5 Unique with wad over powder
second is 230 rn .455 8.5 U without wad

Third is 250 Rem rn .455 dia with wad
forth is 250 Rem rn .455 dia. without wad

fifth is Red River 250 RN FP .454 dia with wad
sixth is RED River 250 gn. RN FP .454 dia. without wad.

Since all loads were Roosevelt brass with one trim and all loads with 8.5 gr. Unique, this test was mostly about testing for a value of a wad and which bullets might work better.
I'm thinking a new barrel might be nice. I don't think these groupings are very good, although maybe good enough.

Do 45's shoot better than this?

Owen

[J Miller]

"Do .45s shoot better than this"?

Well, I can't say they all do, but my 94AE Trapper .45 Colt, shot many 2" to 2.5" groups at 100 yards when I used to live in AZ. This was of course from the bench and with both the factory iron sights as well as the later installed Lyman 66A receiver sight.
Load was my 265gr Keith SWC over 9.o grns Unique.

With all the work you've done on that rifle I'm wondering if maybe there isn't something amiss with that barrel.

Joe

[hightime]

Yeah, I was all excited to get to testing it yesterday. Not too happy. How much does a good barrel all fitted out cost?
Who can do it for me. 24'' octagon?

Owen

[Buck Elliott]

My 24" '73 (from Taylors) shoots under 2" @ 100 yards, with 250 grain LaserCast slugs, over 25 gr H-4198; bullets are .454" diameter, while groove diameter is .4515". Velocity is ~1480 fps.. Std. Dev.: 9..

[kimwcook]

I was thinking at 30 yds you can just about throw rocks and have tighter groups than that.

[hightime]

Thanks Buck , I'll try your loads before I get a barrel. I'm thinking a 100 yrds I'd have about 6'' groups.
I send the gun back twice and they told me it was up to there standards.

I know it's not me as that 44-40 Henry in my avitar shoots 1'' groups at 30yds.

Owen

[Griff]

Bdfore I'd got all fired up about replacing that barrel... have you done the Paco Kelly method of Accurizing the Leveraction Rifle? I do mine a tad different. I strip off everything in front of the receiver associated with the magazine and fire it, supported only at the rear of the stock and the very front of the receiver. This allows the barrel to show you what it's capable of without any extraneous forces on it.

Any group it shoots in that manner is what your goal should be when it's re-assembled. But you have to be sure that you're capable of holding that gun steady. I've taken some guns that I was told (& I proved to myself) were only capable of 3-4 inch groups and proved that the barrel wasn't the problem... it was the stuff hanging off it.

I've bought some pretty cheap Winchester 94s from guys that swore the gun couldn't hold 5"... And then just stripped off the forend and fired a 1 to 1-½" group with just the barrel alone. After floating the barrel, I seal the forend, inside and out... no sense letting moisture in there to swell the wood. Make sure the barrel bands don't bind anywhere on the barrel... a loose, slip fit is ok. But, I prefer NO contact on the rear band to the barrel... tight around the wood, but not the barrel... and the same on the front band. Depending on the style of magazine cap retainer... different methods can done to ensure there's no "binding" pressure on the barrel from the mag tube, either empty or full, hot barrel or cold. While there will always be some impact on the POI from the magazine, it can be minimized.

I've been criticized by a couple of guys because my forends tend to slip after a while. So? It ain't binding of the barrel. The only place I really tend to torque down is the stock screw. And once tightened... I seldom remove the stock.

[ollogger]

Did ya read Old Rangers post on eating roadkill crow?
He got his gun to shoot after fire lapping, and yes try bucks load or?

ollogger

[hightime]

Ding! Could it have been my front sight? I replaced it and it was super tight.

Owen

[Chuck 100 yd]

Yes, that front sight could have been what caused it.
I would lap that barrel before changing it out. It may just surprise you.

[Catshooter]

hightime,

What is the size of the bore?

If I was getting that sort of accuracy, and lots of leading I would suspect that the fit of the bullet to the bore. I have found (and many others over at CastBoolits) that fit is critical. If you can chamber the round, the bullet isn't too big. I send .455 sized cast bullets down my 94 Winchester's .451 bore with zero leading and two inch groups at 100 yards.

You'd think that a .455 bullet would be plenty big, but. Are they really .455? (Measure them.) Drive one down the bore and measure one of those. Don't use a cheap set of calipers, use a good mic.

I have a 45 auto with a .4514 bore that if use .4515 bullets it leads badly. But with a .4525 bullet, zero leading. I have a Winchester 94 in 38-55 with a .3795 bore. The only mould I had at the time dropped a .3794 bullet. Theory says that it should lead, but it doesn't. After 500 rounds of the 274 grain bullet at 1750 fps I cleaned it with two cloth patches and was done with the bore. So you never know. Each gun can be different.

Good luck.


Cat

[hightime]

I did the primer fired .455 bullet into the breach, then tap it back, measure, then tap it into the mussel and on though. I got .451. I had been sliding that slug though several times. As I did I had a tight spot between the end of the forearm and the buckhorn. I thought it must be lead. I scrubbed and patched for a week, sulvent, brass brush, patch, over and over. I thought I'd get it , but alas, no. The lead seemed to be gone , but not the tight spot. I then built a recipricating rod with a brush and some fine steel wooL I measured the rod so that I could work the tight area only. A few mins. and it was good. All excited to see how she shot. Not too good.

I'm going to go out and slug the barrel again since the deleading and see what it measures. I've been told to try it at a longer range. That the bullet might be stablizing and might not be that bad farther out.

Owen

[Buck Elliott]

It won't look any better, farther out..
I attribute much of the accuracy I get from my rifle and loads to 100%+ loading density, and a long, sustained pressure curve, without a dangerous peak chamber pressure.
8.5 grains/Unique is a great load for a revolver, but due to expaansion and resultant pressure drop in your rifle barrel, may not be giving consistant muzzle pressures. Just a calculated theory, you understand, but i get the results I want.. i have always got the best accuracy from loads that were at or above 100% density -- meaning that the powder filled all available space, or may be slightly compressed.. Searching for a powder that will do that, within allowable parameters, is half the fun. My experience and research, garnered over the last 55 years, led me quickly to my pick of H-4198 for my ,45 Colt rifle, which I worked up gradually to my present load.. it also offers great power and accuracy from my Beretta Stampede revolvers...

[hightime]

I'm going to get me some and give it a try.

Owen

[longarm4146]

I have 5 uberti 45s and they all shoot better than yours, although all I ever shoot are cowboy loads. I use a 250 gr bullet sized to .452 and between 5 and 5.5 grs of titegroup. Try Venturinos old pet load og 6.8 of 231 with the 250. At 30 yds my rilfes will usually cloverleaf if I do my job. Good luck.