On your Honor: ... Thread For Alcoholics Only...

[Old Ironsights]

If you ain't, or "haven't been", please do not engage this thread. It'd be like DiFi talking about CMP matches...

Otherwise... next post please.

[Blaine]

From when I joined the Army until about 1998ish, I drank real, real heavy. Then I didn't. I had quit smoking a few years before that. Gratefull that I could get those two monkies off my back. Smoking was by far the hardest. The drinking was just doing it.

[Old Ironsights]

OK.

So here's the deal. This has been something of a concern, but not yet an "issue".

Like in every other way, I'm weird - and a weird Alcoholic (using a standard definition and family history).

Weird enough that "normal" Alcoholic whatsits are inappropriate for me.

I don't drink & get into fights.
I don't drink & get into spousal issues.
I don't drink & drive.
I don't drink every day.

But when I drink, I drink a lot... I guess.

When I drink it's rarely less than than a pint of whatever (I don't "bar drink" - don't like the Bar/Party atmosphere), though I'm never sloppy, belligerent, exuberant or unconscious.

When I drink, not even the town cop can tell - because she'd tell me to my face.

When I drink I want to keep drinking and not do much else.

That ain't good.

I guess I'm looking for some "support" (ack-spit) or feedback anyway from some of 'yall.

I can actively "not drink", though it irks me, and can be dry for as long as it seems important.

But that "important" time is diminishing in direct relation to my time "under/un-employed".

That ain't good either.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for (but, OTOH, if I hadn't already put down a pint, I wouldn't be asking this stuff either... go figure...)

Sigh...

[jnyork]

Have been totally dry for over 19 years now, after a wasted youth and the better part of my adulthood. Dont miss it a bit. Every stupid thing I ever did, every stupid thing I ever said, every time I hurt someone that loved me, I did it when I was drinking. I have no clue how I managed not to kill some innocent persons out on the highway, or how I stayed out of prison.

Sure is nice waking up in the morning and knowing I wont have to wait until afternoon to feel good.

[Bearhands]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........ we should talk Old Ironsides.

[Old Ironsights]

...

Sure is nice waking up in the morning and knowing I wont have to wait until afternoon to feel good.

See, that's another way I'm weird. No matter how much I drink, I've never been hung over...

Even back in Lander as a kid I did the "kid thing" and drank at a couple of parties with a friend until he couldn't stand (I put down a pint of Beam +... myself.) Then I walked/dragged him home then went home myself. Talked to the Teetotaler 'rents, when I got there, then went to bed and was good for school the next day.

[Old Ironsights]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm........ we should talk Old Ironsides.

I'm listening. Or PM me if that's your choice...

[shooter]

Your above post sounds about like I used to be. I was never into the club scene, but was a "social" drinker, and I used to be very social I don't think I ever had a dependency problem per se, but i downed quite a bit of alcohol from the ages of 17 to about 25. Then I got married and just kinda lost interest. I had more stuff to occupy my time than drinking.

I, like you, was never a belligerent drunk and didn't get into fights, and most people could never tell I had been drinking unless they smelled it on me, which was rare. I have also gone through the unemployment phase in the last couple years, and i've been off work for almost 2 months now because of a hurt back. There are days when I just wanna kick back with a 12 pack and do nothing else, but I try a lot harder to fight those urges these days. Now when I do drink I usually keep it to a 6 pack or less, and that's usually over a several hour period. I can't even remember the last time I was drunk. I don't drink and drive, either.

I'm not really sure how all that helps you, except that I kinda know where you're coming from. I can, and often do, go weeks or months without taking a drink. It is a conscious effort to not over do it, but I have no problems abstaining or keeping it under control these days. Plus as I got a little older my conscience started weighing on me. I knew I shouldn't be drinking like I was, and finally had enough of it. I'm also a "go with the flow" type guy. Pretty laid back most of the time. Not easily led, but not too abrasive either, so I tend to let myself go when I'm surrounded by that type of behavior. If I'm at a barbeque and the beer is flowing I have to really watch myself. OTOH, I find that the more I'm involved with my church group and hang out with those people, the less I have the urge to drink. It's not just for appearances, either. There are several other couples in our group that drink, and I've shared a few 6 packs with some of the guys, but the atmosphere is different, and our goal isn't to see how much alcohol we can put down.

Going back to the unemployment deal....it sucks, big time. Hang in there. Everything will turn out fine, I'm sure.

[Blaine]

If you think that you drink too much....you probably are. One of the reasons I quit was that even a six pack or a few shots make my stomach and head a bit queasy the next day....

[Old Ironsights]

Your above post sounds about like I used to be. I was never into the club scene, but was a "social" drinker, and I used to be very social I don't think I ever had a dependency problem per se, but i downed quite a bit of alcohol from the ages of 17 to about 25. Then I got married and just kinda lost interest. I had more stuff to occupy my time than drinking.

I, like you, was never a belligerent drunk and didn't get into fights, and most people could never tell I had been drinking unless they smelled it on me, which was rare. I have also gone through the unemployment phase in the last couple years, and i've been off work for almost 2 months now because of a hurt back. There are days when I just wanna kick back with a 12 pack and do nothing else, but I try a lot harder to fight those urges these days. Now when I do drink I usually keep it to a 6 pack or less, and that's usually over a several hour period. I can't even remember the last time I was drunk. I don't drink and drive, either.

I'm not really sure how all that helps you, except that I kinda know where you're coming from. I can, and often do, go weeks or months without taking a drink. It is a conscious effort to not over do it, but I have no problems abstaining or keeping it under control these days. Plus as I got a little older my conscience started weighing on me. I knew I shouldn't be drinking like I was, and finally had enough of it. I'm also a "go with the flow" type guy. Pretty laid back most of the time. Not easily led, but not too abrasive either, so I tend to let myself go when I'm surrounded by that type of behavior....

Yeah, that's where I am, though the only thing that Beer does to me is to make me want a Whiskey/etc. And if there's none there, well, I can't drink enough beer to make a difference...

Sigh.

I don't know what I'm asking/looking for, but what you guys are saying is helpful.

I think.

I suppose it's only something someone who has "been there" gets...

[Ray Newman]

“If you think that you drink too much....you probably are.”
--Blaine

BINGO!

I had a heart attack back in 1996 and quit drinking then. I really liked good ales and sour mash bourbons. Went cold turkey and have not looked back.

In my case, the post heart attack medications and the number of very heavy drinkers on both sides of my family put me back on the straight and narrow. Have not missed it. When I was in my “formative years” in the 1950’s and in high school -- graduated in ‘64 -- smoking and social or heavy drinking were much more widely accepted and the thing to do. To me, it was part of growing up and acceptable adult behavior. Often wanted to stop, but just never got around to it as some days I did not have a drink, then I would stop at the liquor mart on the way home from work. You know the rest....

Now I realize that drinking was also a way for me not to exorcise the ghosts that confronted me. Feel a good deal better about a number of things now.

[Ben_Rumson]

OS...Sounds kinda like I used to be ..No bar fights or DUIs in my younger years when I’d have a few with the boys after work once in a while... Hardly drank at all until I retired...Didn’t drink every day to start with... but I had sleep issues ( worry I guess) I started drinking a little booze at home in the eve...enjoyed the buzz and slept well...wife was fine with it until my tolerance built up & that’s what gets you.. Tolerance... I knew how much I was consuming was too much & so did my wife...I always knew I could stop drinking any time I wanted to and would stop drinking just to prove to her I could stop & did it a few times...I’d go a few weeks, but miss being buzzed a little and figure what the hey, I sleep a lot better when I drink and I’d go back to it..& there you have it... I miss it... but that tolerance thing looms... There’s no way around it that I know of, and something has got to give...For me the day time hangover got in my way of doing things I needed to do...and you know the cure for that hangover is just a few shots away but you can’t do that because you know you’re going full blown and you know you don’t want that!!! Three 1&1/2 ounce shots of booze is considered alcohol abuse these days... LOL, with that definition I could abuse in one pull off the bottle.. I know you’re a smart guy & I hope you don’t take this wrong...don’t use the VA’s “free” counseling if you seek counseling .. Incase you didn’t know.. the VA’s interviews for alcohol/substance abuse are conducted by shrinks...

Edit.. Didn't want it to beat me, so now it's hoist a couple at family get together.. Thanksgiving & Christmas.

[DixieBoy]

OI - Interesting questions you've posed here. Gotta say, right up front, that this stuff can get involved, so if you want to PM me, feel free.

I quit drinking completely in June of 1988. A DUI was the catalyst for me, along with something else that happened in the neighborhood. I live in a beach town. Have for decades. Back when we were all alot younger (I'm 58 now), we all surfed together, and hung out and partied together alot too. There was a crew of about 25 or 30 guys who all knew each other and one day, somebody asked me if I'd heard what had just happened to this guy Donnie, who was one of the crew.

Donnie had been up in Cocoa Beach partying, wandered across the centerline on his way home, and killed some people. I heard that the sheriffs woke him up the next morning in his cell and asked him if he knew why he was there. He didn't, and they told him. Hearing about this, right after I'd been arrested for a DUI, smacked me right in the face with a reality punch. Here's the thing: all of the guys that I talked with about the Donnie situation agreed that Donnie never got any more blasted than the rest of us did. But there he was, with this awful thing he'd done hanging over him for the rest of his life. The realization that, because he couldn't control himself, innocent people were dead.

I'd been fooling around with the idea of quitting drinking for a month - just to see how I'd feel - when this stuff was happening. As the end of that first month rolled around, and I felt so darn good, I just said "the heck with it," and quit for good. I figured that even if I was involved in an accident in the future, it sure as heck wouldn't be because I couldn't control myself. That was my decision.

Here's an interesting irony, and similarity to your situation: my main thing was beer back then, good beer. Don't be fooled, you can get blind drunk on beer. When I did drink liquor I usually chose rum. Hey, that's what the pirates drank, right ?

Blaine was on the money when he said that if you're asking yourself these questions you might have already answered them too.

Here's something to chew on, and if you want I'm open to talking more. I started to view the drinking thing as a weakness, years ago. This does NOT apply to those folks who can go out and just have a beer, maybe two, and that's the end of it. BUT, there are those of us - I include myself here - who sometimes went out, intending to just get a nice little buzz, and ended up getting pretty well hammered. Maybe you've been able to not get sloppy, as you've noted, but when you drink more than you really wanted to, it's a problem.

One last thing to chew on (hey, you've got so much to chew on here that you won't be able to drink for at least a few days ! ).
Here's what I'm talking about: you and I both, and probably a few of the other guys here too, have been dealing with being either unemployed or under-employed for a while. This stuff messes with you; it's almost impossible for it not to.

I don't think that quitting drinking is a "silver bullet" for all of our problems, but one thing that I can say from my past experience over the 23 years since I quit : most problems are aggravated when you're drinking, and those problems won't get that clear thinking that you might need to really solve them. Since I quit drinking I've had most of the foul stuff of life come my way and I managed to not fall completely apart. I've lost jobs, lost girlfriends, had a cancer eleven years ago and my "sweetheart" run for the hills because she "couldn't handle" what was happening to me, lost my Mom, took care of my Dad after, and then lost Dad fairly recently. These things are awful, but they don't get any better by being polluted.

OI, here's a little bit of good news for you. One of my big fears when I quit drinking was that I wouldn't be funny any more. I'm sure that sounds really goofy to some people, but I was always the guy cutting up and doing everything I could to see that people were laughing. Well, it took me a while to realize it, but I was maybe even funnier when I quit drinking. I can go to a party, or out on the town, and I don't have a problem with being the first person out on the dance floor (that's cause I do a wicked Funky Chicken), and I am still blessed with a pretty darn good sense of humor. Maybe not Blaine-funny, but then that kind of funny only comes to earth about once every 20 years or so.

One thing that I learned about myself when I was quitting, and I've tried to use it my advantage. As you may know, they take a different tack with DUI offenders these days than they used to a while back. They used to just show people films of awful car wrecks and hope that would put the fear of God in them. When I was arrested, and they include alot of these deals that you must attend as part of your punishment, I sat through a discussion where the guy hosting the talk was a former mega-drunk, who'd cleaned up his act, gotten a counselor's license, and here he was holding this discussion. He focused on getting us all to look at why it was that we drank to excess, at least enough that we'd come to the attention of the criminal justice system.

I came to realize that I had a bit of the old obsessive-compulsive thing going on. Not as bad as Jack Nicholson in "As Good as It Gets," but I definitely had some of this in me. So I tried to channel this. Instead of being a really good partier, I finally got myself certified to scuba dive. I'd done this for a years in a half butt fashion, but when I was arrested I decided I was going to do something really good for myself to offset the hammering I was going to take from the system. This ended up being a great thing for me. For many years I had adventures that most people can only dream of. Now that I'm older with a banged up knee I can't afford to fix (unemployed, and non-insured when I was), I've gotten the same way with my shooting. I LOVE cooking up loads for the pistols and chronographing them, making notes of all this stuff, and of course, shooting more than I can afford to. So maybe, if you're entertaining quitting, you can "substitute" some really pleasurable activites for yourself, to channel the time and energy in a good way.

Hey, this stuff can get a little involved. I hope you get what you're searching for here. If you want to talk about this some, I'm open. - DixieBoy

[kimwcook]

Grew up drinking my share and all the shares of the teatoters around me. I quit for nine years and then started drinking a little here and there, but when I drink, like OI, I drink till I'm good and buzzed. Don't do much of it anymore, but I still like my ales and a nice Scotch or Rum every now and then. Don't like being that far out of control anymore.

[DixieBoy]

The most important question is probably: Do you sometimes drink much more than you'd intended to ?

If the answer is yes, maybe you can channel some of your time into (this list could get really long):

Working out. Are you as fit as you'd like to be ? Got a gut ? Why not get it gone ?

Working as much as you want. Take at least some of the time that you'd spend drinking and seek out work you could do online (given that moving might not be an option or something you really don't want to do).

Shooting more. I know this might be connected to making/having more money, but if you've got components around and you're a shooter, take some of those hours you'd allow for knocking down the pint and instead, knock out some precision rounds for one of your favorite rifles.

Clean your place up. This might sound like just making "busy work," but in a way, that's the idea. Start getting yourself in motion doing SOMETHING productive, anything, and after a while it will become a habit in itself. And you'll start recognizing the drinking as the diversion that it is.

Good luck OI. - DixieBoy

[Pitchy]

Drank and raised heck most my young life, until i was 38 and had fun doing it.
I drank because it was fun and it made me feel better until the next morning then it was a hangover.
Man this is a tough topic because most of us have been there and if you think it`s time to quit get some help.
God took it away from me in one prayer, it was a miracle, no doubt about it and took the urge to smoke out of my life.
IMO the only permanent cure is possible with Gods help, everything else is a bandaid.
My prayers go out to anyone that needs help and my door is open if ya need more.

[win38-55]

I drink a few beers everyday Doctor says its good for me.
I feel sorry for all of the people out there that don't drink. When they wake
up in the morning, that is the best they are going to feel all day.

[win38-55]

On a more serious note if you think you have a problem controlling your drinking you should
get help. Drinking can be a serious issue to tackle without help. I drink a few beers everyday
but it is not for escape from reality, I actually like the taste of beer. I do not drink to get drunk
never have. Seek help if you think you have a problem is the best advice. I sought help 10 years ago to stop
smokeing I have never put another one to my lips because of the help I sought. Best class ever.
Dr brought in human smoker lungs in glass bottles for demontsration purposes.
Really tough anti smoking class.

[olyinaz]

God took it away from me in one prayer, it was a miracle, no doubt about it and took the urge to smoke out of my life. IMO the only permanent cure is possible with Gods help, everything else is a bandaid.

Bingo. I don't like to talk about it and I wont. All I'll say again is BINGO and tell y'all that I buried many of my "friends" from that era or watched them ruin every single thing in their lives after I found God and got my act together.

Get help! But it wont be from me because I'm just not like that (which is a sin, but I'm a sinner pure and simple).

Best,
Oly

[Grizz]

I have a similar story to Pitchy's. I was a hellbound drunk. I discovered God's Grace and accepted it. And I was delivered, I use this word precisely and deliberately, from full blown drunkeness, instantly. I tried to drink a brew to celebrate and spit it out and dumped it. The thrill was gone, the taste was horrible.

That was after a near-death experience years before of nephritis (sp?) where I nearly destroyed my kidneys from abusing alcohol. I was a stupid drunk. I was killing myself with booze. I was like OI in that I could operate a car or boat. I used to drink lemonheart from the bottle while sailing around SF Bay at night with the lights off. I was a stupid drunk.

I'm not saying this is you, just me.

The medicinal use of alcohol has been prescribed in the Bible. My Grampa drank one glass of sherry at bedtime. And died in his sleep. The use in moderation isn't proscribed, but drunkeness is, because that is offensive to God.

Not everyone is miraculously seperated from alcohol. But a desire to please our Creator, while not propitiatory in any sense, is a strong motivator to desire a wholesome relationship. We are made in God's image, and using God's technical manual goes a long long ways to helping us cope with the things that ail, or ale us.

[Old Ironsights]

This is where a lot of the cognitive dissonance comes in.

I'm rarely (as in twice in my life) "drunk" in the traditional sense.

I don't even really "enjoy" drinking, though I do appreciate fine/high quality beverages (particularly old single-malts).

The annoyance comes in the desire for drink when there is no appropriate venue for it.

i.e., I shouldn't be sucking on a pint of cheap vodka while cleaning the basement, but the desire to disturbs me more than the action of - if that makes sense.

I suppose it comes from knowing my family's predilection for serious, if "quiet", alcoholism and feeling as if I might be there myself... or getting perilously close anyway.

Still, I actively restrict my drinking simply because I spend most of my time "on call" for the FD as an EMT/Firefighter (which adds a whole 'nuther layer to the "social drinking" thing... any old "smoke eaters" here know what I mean...)

Of course, a good bit of this navel gazing is probably due to my not having anything better to do except read philosophy and wait for a nice day to go try out some new handloads...

Ah well...

[Canuck Bob]

I'm shortly 24 years clean and sober. I started out resembling your pattern but it escalated real quick. I grew up in a heavy construction family and heavy drinking was normal.

I also spent some time working in a rehab house for men. It is amazing how each guy has a different pattern and sees different problems. There is no classic alcoholic pattern unless a guy reaces the level of chronic. If I was advising a fellow with your question it would be simple. If you are concerned it is important. The human mechanism that allows problem drinking to escalate is denial.

In my case a little voice kept saying, what the heck is gong on. I eventually convinced myself it was nothing. Then I never even considered stopping when it was beyond anything resembling human behavior. I truly believed I had no problem. Wow, I now marvel at how bad it got and the grace that spared me and others worse. In my view that little voice was Divine. I am sharing my story and not making any judgements about you. For me there was a progression. I could have drank for many more years and would have if drugs hadn't driven me to my knees.

In the 12 Step world they say there are two symptoms. First is loss of control, when I drank I could never gaurantee I would stop until hammered. A kinda craving for more booze once some is drank. Second is a preoccupation with alcohol, planning the next drunk, thinking about it when it ain't necessary, etc..

My real life didn't start till I sobered up and by the Grace of God I won't drink today.

[Pitchy]

Our spirits continually fight the flesh, plain and simple.
Right after i accepted Christ i thought i should hang in the bars and preach the word, drinking soda of course. Not a good thing because your tempted by what`s going on around ya.
Also right after i was born again that little voice would hammer at me every time i drove by a favorite water hole and say, awe stop in and see your old friends, its ok to have just one or just visit.
Satan is constantly after us and if we open the door for him by having problems we can`t control he`ll push ya along and try to get ya to fail.
The Lord steers and the Devil drives, remember that, if you can`t control what your doing and it bothers ya it`s time to get around people that can help and get on your knees and pray.
I want to make it clear that i have nothing against drinking or anything else, if it doesn`t harm you or others then no problem.
If ya could of been there when God took drinking and smoking out of my life, with the smoking my mother was dieing from cancer and i was having a hard time being there for her because i kept breaking down. That is when i sat down and prayed and when God removed any urge to smoke which i`d done since i was 12.
He did it to show me He was there and He helped me be strong for my mother.
The drinking ended when i was at a friends house that had already turned his life over to the Lord. There was a preacher there and we were sitting around the table and he slid a quarter across the table to me and said ,here you can have it.
The sinner rebellious person i was at the time i slid it back and politely told he what he could do with his quarter.
That went on for about three more times until finally i said fine i`ll take your quarter, thanks.
He then said that that`s how easy it is to take what the Lord is offering me, we prayed and i turned my life over to the Lord and drinking was all over in my life.
Does turning your life over to God mean ya won`t have problems, no, in fact ya may have more, that dern Satan again.
But what it does mean is the HS will enter you and give ya strength to make some good choices.
I`m probably living the worst part of my life right now as a Christian and it bugs me but i know that Lord is right beside me and i`ll get through it.
I`m praying for you right now bro, kick them urges out in the name of Jesus.

[.45colt]

I could fill the page with examples of what excess can do,not only with drinking but anything else that gets out of control in life. Ask Yourself Am I Happy Today...??????? if not You can Change. We all can. Look at the Help and advice Here. We are all Human. our Time is very Short Here and We all need to Make the Best of it. God Bless.

[Pitchy]

I see it still showed me as the last poster after i deleted my reply, i posted it in the wrong thread that`s why.

[Old Ironsights]

I see it still showed me as the last poster after i deleted my reply, i posted it in the wrong thread that`s why.

And you made that goof even when you were dry.

So all I can say is, My oh My...

[Pitchy]

I see it still showed me as the last poster after i deleted my reply, i posted it in the wrong thread that`s why.

And you made that goof even when you were dry.

So all I can say is, My oh My...

Burned out from the past

[gamekeeper]

In my younger days I was a heavy drinker and smoker, booze and tobacco was cheap then, now I can't afford to drink like a fish or smoke like a chimney.
I still enjoy a pint or two of real ale and a decent Bourbon, very occasionally I may even light up my old corn cob pipe.
I believe a "LITTLE" of what you fancy does you good and I don't believe in denying myself something I enjoy, I leave that to the government.

[mikld]

I hear (read) a lot of justification in your posts; you don't have hangovers so you really aren't a heavy drinker, you don't drink to get drunk, you really do like the taste of beer or enjoy a good single malt, you've held down a good job with no interferrance from your drinking, you don't get drunk and beat your wife or drive your car, "no one can tell" (that's a good one!),etc. But at the same time that you're defending your drinking, you seem concerned. You also said you can't take one drink, that you need a pint or more. Well you're not unique, you're just a regular old periodic drunk! You ain't weird, and yes "normal" Alcoholic "whatsis" do apply to you, you just have to put a "yet" in there. Reading the first post it sounds like you've been drinking and you're "crying in your beer". "Remorseful Drunk"

My drunk-a-log doesn't have any bearing on the topic other than I drank for 39 years and have been sober for 25. My recovery is because of the God given program of Alcohol Anonymous (the single most successful program for treating obsessive /compulsive drinking, ever) and I've heard your story a hundred times in AA meetings all over the country.

Yep, yer an alky. Admit it and do something about it. If I were asked, I'd tell you to go to a dozen different AA meetings, look at the similarities not the differences, and then see/learn how to get sober (sober isn't just a lack of alcohol, it's a way of living a successful/ peaceful life, and there's a bunch of "dry" alkies running around; dry drunks).

My post ain't ment to be mean, but I certainly won't sugar coat my opinion or buy into your B.S. (justification).

Mebbe I'm breaking my anonimity, but you guys don't know me really, and I think it's OK here...