I've grown to despise my Browning B92

[Old Ranger]

I'm sure that this is going to spur a lot of comment on me and my post here, but I have got to get this said...

In Dec. I bought a 1981 production B92 in really good condition. It was a Christmas present from me to me. It is a pretty thing. French walnut stocks. Fine finishing on the metal...Really a fine looking weapon. But that is where it stops for me. Since I've had this weapon, it has caused me untold grief. No matter WHAT load I try, no matter what sight I use, this weapon cannot hit a flock of barns 50 yards in front of me. I was beginning to think I couldn't shoot well anymore. Yesterday I was trying AGAIN to shoot this rifle at 50 yds and was all over the paper! I grabbed up my Marlin GG and with factory iron sights punched out the center of the bull with three shots and all were touching. Took some of the loads I was trying in the B92 and shot them at the same distance with my 4" S&W 629 and shot some tight groups with it as well. So, it ain't me!

So I have grown to despise this Browning and now I'm stuck with it. No one in my area even knows what it is or the value. I can't even sell it locally. Now I'm stuck with an expensive wall hanger! I have cleaned it from yesterday's shooting and coated it with Rig and put it away. I will NEVER attempt another shot out of this weapon. I truely hate it and wish now that I never bought it.

Please don't send load data, or ideas on how to make it shoot. I will not touch this thing again unless I can sell it for what I have in it...and then I'll never look at a Browning again. I'll stick with older Marlins and such...

Thanks for letting me vent and get this off my chest...

Wade

[Pitchy]

April fools.

[kimwcook]

April fools.

I'm a sucker for April Fool's jokes. Guys get me all the time. He had me going, if it's really an April Fool's joke.

[Pitchy]

April fools.

I'm a sucker for April Fool's jokes. Guys get me all the time. He had me going, if it's really an April Fool's joke.

I`m sorry to say i don`t think it is, just trying to cheer him up.

[Blaine]

By all accounts, that should be a wonderful shooter....put it in classified, and I'm sure it'll move (my 1894 shoots excellent, so I'm good for .44mag)

[Old Ranger]

BlaineG,

I'd hate to palm this thing off to any of our members. That little voice would start up telling me I did a fellow Levergunner wrong and wouldn't be able to sleep at nights. Maybe I can trade it off to someone close that has a ridding mower. I need one of them more than this crappy Browning!

Gotta tella ya, I came real close to wrapping this weapon around a tree yesterday. I was that mad at it! I got an old Daisy Red Rider BB gun that shoot tighter groups than this thing!

[earlmck]

Friend of mine has two of those B92s in 44 mag. One shoots just fine; the other is just like yours. In fact, some of the bullets tumble out of it. I have promised to work with it and see if I can figure "what the heck" but haven't done so yet. Your report reminded me of my months-old promise: I'll see him tomorrow and will see what we can figure out on the "bad Brownings". Control your destructive urges a few more days Old Ranger. Maybe it'll be something easy to deal with.

[olyinaz]

Well, if this aint an April fools joke, I'd suggest rebarreling it - start anew.

Oly

[Griff]

I'll come by and take it off your hands and accurarize it for ya. If I can't get to AT LEAST shoot as well as your S&W I'll buy it for what you paid. Deal?

[FWiedner]

I'd find it hard to respect a fella that knowingly sells a bum gun, unless he provides all the facts, good and bad, that go with it.

That said, I don't see paying a premium price for a non-shooter, I don't care how pretty it is.

I think I can understand the frustration, and putting it away until you develop a yearning to work out the problem is probably the best thing.

[kimwcook]

I'll come by and take it off your hands and accurarize it for ya. If I can't get to AT LEAST shoot as well as your S&W I'll buy it for what you paid. Deal?

Honestly, if my carbine was shooting that bad I'd take Griff up on his offer.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Mine shoots em all in the same hole at 50yd.
I don`t know what to say about yours!!

[Les Staley]

I can understand your frustration.. I had one about four years ago.. couldn't hit the barn from inside.. sold it at a loss ... found another one a couple months ago here on this forum.. It's a different rifle altogether.. groups jacketed bullets and also cast lead.. will be trying it out on ground squirrels here shortley..

[Old Ranger]

Chuck 100 yd,

I did get a good group with an old box of CCI 200 gr Blazer ammo I had lying around, but after that, nothing I loaded was hitting anywhere right....oh a few loads with 240 XTP's and Hs6, but nothing cast ever hit good. I'll have three clustered at 2 o'clock in the 7 ring and then three all over the place...then a verticle string at 7 o'clock in the 6 ring...all at 50 yds!! and off a front rest and a bench! This is typical of how it would shoot....I tried 240 GC bullets, 245 Keith's seated deeper and crimped on the forward driving band....44 Spl's with Keiths and GC's...all scattred! Tried changing rear sights too. Marbles flat top...pathetic......Marbles Bullseye short rear...good sight picture, lousy shooting...I think it's cursed! I just want to get rid of it and never see it again.....In fact, I'll never own another 92 pattern rifle again. That's how bad a taste it left in my mouth...

Wade

[Canuck Bob]

BlaineG,

I'd hate to palm this thing off to any of our members. That little voice would start up telling me I did a fellow Levergunner wrong and wouldn't be able to sleep at nights. Maybe I can trade it off to someone close that has a ridding mower. I need one of them more than this crappy Browning!

Gotta tella ya, I came real close to wrapping this weapon around a tree yesterday. I was that mad at it! I got an old Daisy Red Rider BB gun that shoot tighter groups than this thing!

You have been straight up with folks. One guys dog is another guys challenge. If I was an American I'd consider the rifle. I'm sorry to hear your trials. There is nothing like getting a new gun and it disappoints.

[Chuck 100 yd]

Post it for sale here.
Tell all about your frustration and all in the add. There are some of us who enjoy a challenge.
Just like a Harley owner, we love to tinker. I`d rather have a fine work in progress than a plastic gun that functions to perfection.

[BigSky56]

After reading your post about the blazer ammo doing ok I think you have some pressure on that barrel as blazer ammo is kinda mild and wont heat the barrel up as fast as the stout ammo would. Before you give up or look to different loads take all the stuff off the front end, forearm wood and mag tube and shoot the rifle for groups that will tell you if the barrel has pressure on it. If it does group sort out what is binding and putting pressure on the barrel, forearm wood or barrel bands etc. Thats my goto job on any lever gun that wont group and has worked for me on 92's, 94's and 99's. danny

[Pitchy]

After reading your post about the blazer ammo doing ok I think you have some pressure on that barrel as blazer ammo is kinda mild and wont heat the barrel up as fast as the stout ammo would. Before you give up or look to different loads take all the stuff off the front end, forearm wood and mag tube and shoot the rifle for groups that will tell you if the barrel has pressure on it. If it does group sort out what is binding and putting pressure on the barrel, forearm wood or barrel bands etc. Thats my goto job on any lever gun that wont group and has worked for me on 92's, 94's and 99's. danny

Wade that sounds like a good idea, ya better give it a try, just think how good you`ll feel after ya whooped it.

[big bear]

Mine shoots em all in the same hole at 50yd.
I don`t know what to say about yours!!

Same here, really surprised by your experience, I haven't read all of the replies, hope I haven't been April Fooled!

[CalvinMD]

Gots to be a reason ...I'd declare a personal vendetta ...good start would be what was recommended..theres gotta be pressure on the barrel causing vertical stringing

[Old Ranger]

Well, that sounds like a plan. But...there's always a "but" huh?
I'm not messing with it anymore. I cleaned it after I shot it. Got out the Rig Rag and gave it a good coating of Rig Grease and put it away. Really guys, I'm so soured on the 92 in general that if one of you walked up to me and gave me a super tight shooting 92, I'd thank them for their kindness and hand it back to them. I don't ever want to have one in my hands again....

This reminds me of ex-wives.....they're all great and pretty and stuff when you first get one...then they start breaking down on you. Then nagging all the time and become so high maintence that ya just wanna get them out of the house and outta your life.... This one is like my third ex-wife....was a knockout at first, but demands so much and cost too much to keep around....nope, I'll be real glad to be rid of this one! I'm sticking to old Marlins from now on...No more 92 anything for me! I learned my lesson.....

And this is not an April Fool's joke....really!

[BC in TN]

Ranger,

See if Nate Kiowa Jones would be willing to take a look at it.
Heck, he might fix it and sell it for you - worth a try.

I expect he might chime in on this post when he sees it.

[kaschi]

My cousin had one of the first ones out (the centennial version) and had the same problem with his. My B92 from the mid 80's, on the other hand, shoots really well.

[model55]

Feel your pain, had the same thing with a Ruger target pistol of all things.Some times you just need to do exactly what you did put it away for another time and move on.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I'm sure that this is going to spur a lot of comment on me and my post here, but I have got to get this said...

In Dec. I bought a 1981 production B92 in really good condition. It was a Christmas present from me to me. It is a pretty thing. French walnut stocks. Fine finishing on the metal...Really a fine looking weapon. But that is where it stops for me. Since I've had this weapon, it has caused me untold grief. No matter WHAT load I try, no matter what sight I use, this weapon cannot hit a flock of barns 50 yards in front of me. I was beginning to think I couldn't shoot well anymore. Yesterday I was trying AGAIN to shoot this rifle at 50 yds and was all over the paper! I grabbed up my Marlin GG and with factory iron sights punched out the center of the bull with three shots and all were touching. Took some of the loads I was trying in the B92 and shot them at the same distance with my 4" S&W 629 and shot some tight groups with it as well. So, it ain't me!

So I have grown to despise this Browning and now I'm stuck with it. No one in my area even knows what it is or the value. I can't even sell it locally. Now I'm stuck with an expensive wall hanger! I have cleaned it from yesterday's shooting and coated it with Rig and put it away. I will NEVER attempt another shot out of this weapon. I truely hate it and wish now that I never bought it.

Please don't send load data, or ideas on how to make it shoot. I will not touch this thing again unless I can sell it for what I have in it...and then I'll never look at a Browning again. I'll stick with older Marlins and such...

Thanks for letting me vent and get this off my chest...

Wade

Some of the B 92's had 1 in 38 twist and just don't shoot well. At one time I had the serial number range on those but have since lost it.

[Malamute]

Steve, would it clean up rebored to 45 Colt?


What was the other twist rate used in them?

[RSY]

Before you ditch it, have it re-crowned by your gunsmith. It's not too expensive to do, and it might solve everything.

Scott

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Steve, would it clean up rebored to 45 Colt?


What was the other twist rate used in them?

You can't easily convert a 357m 92 to 45lc. The 357m and 44mag receivers are different. I have done it with a 1 in 38, B-92 in 44mag.
I don't remember just exactly what the other twist rates were but I think 1 in 20.

[Griff]

Hey, I'm buying this sight unseen... issues and all. And, since I'm assuming that Old Ranger used the same loads in a S&W mdl 629, it's a .44Mag. And, IIRC, the B92 44Mags did use a 1 in 38 twist, but that shouldn't really be an issue as so many of them were tack drivers, even in that twist. In a .357, yes, it might well be.

But, Nate, since you've spoken up, will the later Browning 92s use the same thread as the earlier ones? A rebarrel to .45Colt is what I have in mind for it.

My son kinda complains about the weight of his Rossi "Short Rifle" with it's relatively heavy octagon barrel, so this would kill two birds with one stone, get him a lighter mdl 92 in .45Colt and I can still have that Short Rifle for pigs.

[GonnePhishin]

I don't know if this makes sense or not but could it be that the rifling was somehow cut off center?
If the rifling wasn't completely perpendicular to the barrel blank it would not exit the barrel straight.

Hopefully what I said makes sense.

[madman4570]

Go with Griff deal!

[kimwcook]

Ranger, again I say sell it to Griff. He knows what he's getting into. Let's see what he can do with it. You aren't going to do anything with it anyway and why have it hanging around your safe for nothing but angst.

[earlmck]

I did get a good group with an old box of CCI 200 gr Blazer ammo I had lying around, but after that, nothing I loaded was hitting anywhere right....oh a few loads with 240 XTP's and Hs6, but nothing cast ever hit good. I'll have three clustered at 2 o'clock in the 7 ring and then three all over the place...then a verticle string at 7 o'clock in the 6 ring...all at 50 yds!! and off a front rest and a bench! This is typical of how it would shoot....I tried 240 GC bullets, 245 Keith's seated deeper and crimped on the forward driving band....44 Spl's with Keiths and GC's...all scattred!

OK, I had posted earlier about checking out a friend's B92 with poor accuracy issues, which I did today. This may very well apply to your rifle, Old Ranger.

I was wrong about my friend having two of the B92s, one good and one bad. No, he just has the one which shot fine when he brought it out to elk camp a few years ago and we sighted it in and shot some tin cans. We looked at his ammo. He'd brought factory 180 grain stuff that shot fine. (Similar to your decent results with 200 grain). But when we shot it a couple of months ago the 240 grain jacketed flat point stuff he'd loaded for his revolver was bad -- barely hit a 5 gallon can at 25 yards sort of bad. And with my 280 grain cast WFN (my favorite bullet in my Ruger revolver) we could barely hit the sheet of plywood we staple the targets to. Some even tumbled.

I checked the twist rate. Yep, the 1 in 38". (Well maybe I wouldn't swear to 1:38. What we got is the old tight cleaning rod made just about 1/2 a turn going through the 20" barrel) So definitely on the slow side. Fired a couple of the 280's unsized through with just enough powder (1.6 grains green dot) to poop 'em through and caught in pile of rags -- miked out 0.432" So we have a slow twist and kinda' oversized barrel and she don't shoot for beans, especially with game-thumping heavy cast bullets. Friend Butch is going to deal with this by loading 180 or 200 grain bullets for the little rifle henceforth. I have a 240 grain gas-check bullet that we could try sized .432" (my largest sizer) or maybe just shoot unsized if it casts a bit larger. But he's not that fond of the cast bullets so probably he'll just stick with the light stubby jacketed bullets.

My vote is to sell it to Griff for a premium. After all, he'd be getting not only a nice rifle but also a nice challenge.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Hey, I'm buying this sight unseen... issues and all. And, since I'm assuming that Old Ranger used the same loads in a S&W mdl 629, it's a .44Mag. And, IIRC, the B92 44Mags did use a 1 in 38 twist, but that shouldn't really be an issue as so many of them were tack drivers, even in that twist. In a .357, yes, it might well be.

But, Nate, since you've spoken up, will the later Browning 92s use the same thread as the earlier ones? A rebarrel to .45Colt is what I have in mind for it.

My son kinda complains about the weight of his Rossi "Short Rifle" with it's relatively heavy octagon barrel, so this would kill two birds with one stone, get him a lighter mdl 92 in .45Colt and I can still have that Short Rifle for pigs.

Yep, 44mag. I missed that. Griff, as earlmck found, the 1 in 38 does not work well with the heavier 44 bullets. Not all of the 8-92's were 1 in 38 either.
As for a re-barrel I would just re-bore it to .452. Either way the timing will need some tweaking.

[1894c]

i know this post is somewhat painful, especially when an expensive gun (at least for me) doesn't shoot well, but i learned allot from the discussion...thank you all for your input... :)

[gundownunder]

I got the impression from over at cast bullet forum that it's not uncommon for the B92 to be ornery.
I gather it is partly to do with the slow twist but also the rifling is shallow, and some reckon it is identical to Marlins microgroove. In that case would it be worth trying a HARD cast bullet a couple thou over the bore size and keeping the velocity down a bit, since this is the same thing recommended regularly for microgroove Marlins. Other than that I'd go with some of the other suggestions already put forward. Check the crown, check the rifling, and check to make sure everything that should be tight is tight and everything that should be loose is loose.
When you get a rifle you love it is frustrating for it not to shoot to expectations, but imagine what it would feel like to sell it and then watch some other mongrel shoot X rings with it all day long because he diagnosed the problem.

[Old Ranger]

This weapon has multiple lands and grooves to be sure! I did have one session where I was using a 245 Keith sized at .430" with 9.6 gr of W231 that did shoot a .75" three shot group at 50 yds, but later, I was not able to make that happen again. They were hard cast and lubed with NRA 50/50 mix lube. It did lead up the bore quite a bit. Tests with a Lee 240 SWCGC sized the same gave mixed results. 240 gr Hornady XTP loads with various loads were less than impressive. Perhaps with the slower twist it may want to shoot short little bullets. I don't shoot short light bullets and I really have no desire to try them. When I cannot get results that can be duplicated time and again, then I'm not happy. If the weapon is that incosistent in how it shoots? Forget it! My Marlin GG, with factory sights, will consistantly put three in the same hole at 50 yds and will keep them in an inch to an inch and a half most days at 100.

Griff said he wants this beast and I assurred him that it was his. And he is well aware that this rifle has issues with me and my loads. Shucks, who knows, it might shoot great for him! We'll see just how it goes I suppose. All I know is, and I say this from a personal standpoint, I hate this weapon! In fact, I think my next rifle will likely be a boltgun! I know...BLASPHEME!! This 92 has left that bad a taste in my mouth that won't go away! So I hope that Griff can do something with it, as I sure won't....If it shoots great for him, them we're both happy! He gets a B92 and I get rid of one!

[Malamute]

The issue has been resolved (he's selling the gun), tho I have a question about the twist rate. In the older Speer manual in have, it shows ALL 44 rifles as having a 38" twist, as well as the 444 Marlin. I'd guess that should be OK for up to 240 grain bullets, (standard weight for the cartridge) the bore size and rifling depth may be more of an issue than the twist rate. Just guessing, but with so many that shoot well, or at least fairly well at a 38" twist, it seems likely.


Shooting cast bullets without knowing the individual guns groove dimensions is only guessing. It may work out OK, it may not. Trying larger diameters may improve things dramatically, even in jacketed, if its oversize with shallow rifling.

[Old Savage]

My Rossi - 45 Colt will throw .451s all over the place but comes right down with larger sizes.

[stretch]

I think my next rifle will likely be a boltgun!

Easy, Old Ranger.

No need to go off half-cocked, now... oh, that's right!
Can't do that with a bolt gun.

It'll be interesting to see how Griff gets on.

-Stretch

[Charles]

I dont think I would just Rig it and put it in the safe, if I didn't want to sell it down river. I would save my nickles and dimes and have it rebarreled with a premium barrel and a correct chamber. If it didn't shoot them, it would be the barrel bands or the wood fit, either of which can be tracked down and fixed. It is up to us to enforce our will on these inanimate objects. I won't let a pissant rifle defeat me!

[earlmck]

I gather it is partly to do with the slow twist but also the rifling is shallow, and some reckon it is identical to Marlins microgroove. In that case would it be worth trying a HARD cast bullet a couple thou over the bore size and keeping the velocity down a bit, since this is the same thing recommended regularly for microgroove Marlins.

Yep -- 12 groove rifling, pretty shallow. I'm with you, Bob: this would be kinda' fun to work with. I can't believe it wouldn't shoot a hard cast bullet sized to .433 or so. Especially at 240 grains or thereabouts. Griff will have fun and I'll bet we get an interesting report before long.

[Griff]

Yep, rest assured that I'll take some measurements, pop some parts off and play with it a bit before I get it re-bored and chambered as a .45Colt. Either way... it will fill a gap in the safe... er, inventory, (there ain't any room in the safe), as there's not a .44Mag in the house, bells... there isn't even a .40+ caliber carbine if it gets changed to a .45Colt. How pitiful is that?

[Les Staley]

I have a Shilen 44 (429 groove) barrel blank squirreled away for just such emergencys.. It is a 1-20 twist. Don't know if I'll put it on the B92 or one of my Marlin 94s.. or maybe my Rossi Puma 44... which ever one upsets me the most will get it... a project for when I retire....That barrel WILL shoot 300 gr bullets or what ever.... got a couple of ideas.. which will include a lathe for retirement..

[KCSO]

Old Ranger, what caliber is your gun? If it ia s 44 mag I have foound several where the front sight dovetail was cut to tight and when the front sight was pressed in it pt a wrinkle in the bore. It doesn't take much of a dent or wrinkle in the grooves to really mess up the accuracy. The cure is to shorten it to a 18" barrel. If it is a brazed on sight like to original 92's look for scale in the grooves with a bore scope, same cure.

[Old Ranger]

KCSO,

Guess it's a moot point as I believe Griff's gonna re-barrel it to a .45Colt anyway...but, that front sight is set pretty well and the barrel bands and such show no signs of restriction either. Guess a 92 is just not for me! I suppose I'm more of a Marlin kinda guy

[gak]

I'm actually hoping Griff can make it run fine as the original .44 - curious as to what the issue might be!

[Old Ranger]

Well whatever it is, I've fought with it for three months now and will get some good grouping, then it all goes to stuff. As I first said, I now hate this weapon. But I really do hope Griff has better success with it. As for me? I'm going to stick with my GG and later maybe get me another boltgun in 30'06. I'm done with the 92 and all it's clones...If I want to shoot a .44, I'll use my 629. It cloverleafs at 25 yds off a sandbag with some of my pet loads and that's good enough for me.

[JFE]

I have one of these and it has been a source of frustration for many years. I too had been considering rebarreling but instead persisted to work out how to make it work. The accuracy problem stems from a very large bore, very shallow rifling (not unlike microgroove) and a long throat. The twist is slow, but IMO not the cause of inaccuracy.

Mine seems to work ok with jacketed, but unless you use large diameter cast bullets (0.434), results can be poor. I have now pushed cast bullets sized 0.434 and weighing 300 gr with acceptable accuracy. The OAL limitations prevent you from seating a bullet out to touch the rifling, however the large diameter makes for a snug fit in the chamber and aids in holding the cartridge true, instead of allowing it to slump to the bottom of the chamber. Cast bullets, even when cast hard, are still relatively soft (cf jacketed) and when started off misaligned in a chamber results in poor accuracy. Jacketed bullets are tougher and accuracy is not as bad.

Rebarreling would solve all the problems but its nice to know you can make them work. There are now quite a few 44 moulds on offer in larger diameters (most big name 44 cal moulds will be undersized for this rifle), so if you cast you own you can make them work like they should.

[Griff]

JFE,

Thanks for the heads up... although that's good for the one gun solution... not so good when you want to use the same loads in a variety of guns, (lever rifle, semi-auto and/or revolver). Not a problem for me, as I don't have a .44M gun... yet! I suspect that is what I might find after a chamber cast, but it leads to a question; after you figured out the .434 size, how is it with bullets lighter than that 300grs?