Heads up - DON'T stock up

[Pitchy]

Looney. Toons.

You guys crack me up

[Booger Bill]

Whats the old story? If I am wrong and your right, nothing changes, no harm. But what if I am right and your wrong? ------

[Grizz]

Now ya gone and cracked me up again.

I'm more afraid of the hucksters whom are pushing Primers, MREs, gold,Etc.than the government it self.. There's a sucker born every minute, Don't become one.

you fear the merchants who supply goods and you don't fear the government more.... you already have become one, and you want to give us advice about whom to trust?

funny, very funny

[Pitchy]

Whats the old story? If I am wrong and your right, nothing changes, no harm. But what if I am right and your wrong? ------

[JohndeFresno]

Folks,

We have had some great discussion here. In my view, we have lost track of some salient facts behind this thread, and an earlier one ADVISING us to stock up.

Since we have been allowed to state certain principles and beliefs, I will start by saying that I have been a Born Again Christian, studier of Revelation and the Rapture, and so on for 40 years. Although some folks of different faiths might have a different point of view, I believe in my heart of hearts everything that Pitchy has said; he has it "right."

However, we are missing some very important things in the realm of stocking up for a dry spell.

1) No man knows the day or the hour of His coming, the Good Book says. See Acts 1:7 for starters.

2) In Germany, the Jews were disarmed, walled into a ghetto and starved in their own city - then worse things happened. I am sure that they were sure that it was the end of the world. Guess what - as bad as things were, it wasn't. Too bad they couldn't fight back before the Nazis totally took over.

3) In various countries, folks have been disarmed, then persecuted, tortured, killed, all at the whim of a tyrant. Gun control came first.

4) In our own country, I have written on this forum how I am ashamed at my fellow "peace officers" who "followed orders" and illegally disarmed the citizens of Louisiana - by force and even by violence as documented by a news photographer (available through NRA on a DVD, "Lest We Forget."). Then, they abandoned those same people, and hordes of armed gunmen ran rampant, looting, raping and so on.

5) I remember the Watts riots, where the police did respond; but the situation was totally out of control for quite some time. The media carried the account of one determined Korean store owner who kept looters at bay with his .45 pistol.

6) I also remember the Baltimore Riots, following the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King. I was in the service, stationed at Ft. Meade, Maryland, but living off base. A visiting girl friend had arrived at the Baltimore Airport. Her phone call was that of a very scared young lady, trapped at the airport, with no way out. I jumped in the car, drove to the airport, picked her up and drove home, partially through areas where the looting and burning was in full swing. I had to work my way around some National Guard road blocks, since that appeared to be the only route available during that disaster. At one intersection, we were approached by a very angry looking man; and others were in the area. Were it not for my presenting a loaded handgun and announcing my immediate intentions in a very unfriendly way to that attacker - yes, the loaded handgun was illegal in that city - I don't know if either of us would be here today. Flash forward to the truck driver who was dragged from his truck during the Rodney King riots.

7) A couple of years ago, in my small town in the center of California's San Joaquin Valley, our city well or wells got contaminated and the water was taken offline. Within the period of one day, there was no drinking water to be found on the shelves of the grocery stores in our area! Had our water supply been poisoned up and down the valley, how would many city dwellers make it?

My point is: Yes, many of us believe that there will be an end time. But right now might not be the time. That doesn't mean that we won't be put into a position by our so-called "government of the People" where we can no longer purchase firearms, ammunition or related supplies, and it doesn't mean that we won't suffer a horrible shortage of food in the coming days - Armageddon or not.

We are now seeing gangs invading stores, leaving the merchants with no apparent defense; something that rarely happened before. I see a huge increase in gang activity in my neighborhood. And there is more doom and gloom to talk about, despite the fact that there is a lot of good in this world. I say - do what you wanna do; but when the stuff hits the spinning blades, let's hope that you made the right choice.

I am not a Mormon; but it seems to me that they have it right when it comes to stocking up on some non perishable foodstuffs and such.

[Hobie]

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd rather spend $50 a week on ammo, reloading supplies, etc, than on lottery tickets, cigarettes or booze.

[L_Kilkenny]

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd rather spend $50 a week on ammo, reloading supplies, etc, than on lottery tickets, cigarettes or booze.

Thank god I'm not so broke that I have to make that choice!!! I'd cry.

LK

[JohndeFresno]

...
There is a interesting obscure offbeat movie made many years ago in canada staring clint walker. I forgot the title but it was a survival movie where he owns a farm on the plains of saskatchiwan in modern times. Some type disaster happens and he and his family are fighting off everyone from the citys that are trying to steal his food and crops. I forgot most of it and would like to find it and see it again. It was very beliveable, unlike red dawn. A army of paratroopers from russia or china isnt apt to drop in us without a lot of warning....

Found it, Bill -
Deadly Harvest (1977) Starring Clint Walker

Radical changes to the world's climate have left all the earth's inhabitants desperate for food. With the governments as hopeless as the regular citizens, lying becomes commonplace as everyone must now fend for themselves. One farmer attempts to preserve peace and sanity during the troubled times -- until his wife and son-in-law are savagely killed. Features an early career appearance by Kim Cattrall (of television's "Sex and the City").

Netflix will be producing this movie for rental in the near future; I "saved" it for when it is available.

[Hobie]

...
There is a interesting obscure offbeat movie made many years ago in canada staring clint walker. I forgot the title but it was a survival movie where he owns a farm on the plains of saskatchiwan in modern times. Some type disaster happens and he and his family are fighting off everyone from the citys that are trying to steal his food and crops. I forgot most of it and would like to find it and see it again. It was very beliveable, unlike red dawn. A army of paratroopers from russia or china isnt apt to drop in us without a lot of warning....

Found it, Bill -
Deadly Harvest (1977) Starring Clint Walker

Radical changes to the world's climate have left all the earth's inhabitants desperate for food. With the governments as hopeless as the regular citizens, lying becomes commonplace as everyone must now fend for themselves. One farmer attempts to preserve peace and sanity during the troubled times -- until his wife and son-in-law are savagely killed. Features an early career appearance by Kim Cattrall (of television's "Sex and the City").

Netflix will be producing this movie for rental in the near future; I "saved" it for when it is available.

If you remember that was a common theme at the time. Most likely it was another ice age or simple over-population but a common enough topic.

[jnyork]

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd rather spend $50 a week on ammo, reloading supplies, etc, than on lottery tickets, cigarettes or booze.

Since I dont smoke , drink or gamble,, I guess that leaves me only one choice.

[damienph]

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd rather spend $50 a week on ammo, reloading supplies, etc, than on lottery tickets, cigarettes or booze.

Since I dont smoke , drink or gamble,, I guess that leaves me only one choice.

What, women? nah, too old for that!

[tman]

If u want to stock up, stock up! nothing wrong with that. If u are gonna corner the market on primers and use scare tactics , there is something wrong with that. Too many people listen to Liberal/ conservative talk radio and are brainwashed into doing things they normally woud not do. All i'm trying to say is use your head before you buy $10K worth of stale MRE's because some nut job shock jock huckster tells u to. Remember, all of the phony end of whatever stock piling drives the prices up. Don't play into their hands, use your head.Since the first man crawled out from under a rock and watched the sunset, cons have been praying on the simple minded for the end of the world, the end of freedom, the end of America. Some of us have already lived thru some of these senarios, Think before u spend.

[jnyork]

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd rather spend $50 a week on ammo, reloading supplies, etc, than on lottery tickets, cigarettes or booze.

Since I dont smoke , drink or gamble,, I guess that leaves me only one choice.

What, women? nah, too old for that!

Speak for yourself, John.

[cshold]

TSA sure is...
http://articles.businessinsider.com/201 ... nds-bullet

[Booger Bill]

Just a little family history here. My dads ancestors left germany in the early 1800`s to homestead in what is now the north western ukraine. Catherine the great was a german that married the czar. She influenced her husband to let german farmers homestead that area that was then known as volhenia. http://www.ualberta.ca/~german/PAA/Volhynians.htm
I have heard several sources that said several of my ansesters were bodyguards to the czar, probley due to their size as they were schwbans and were very tall. (a schwaban trait). Anyway most were annilated in the early 1900s between the wars. Luckly, my great grandfather came to this country in 1873-1874 with brothers and brother in laws and familys. Gr grandpa Franz lost his wife here and a daughter as he had other small kids he went back to russia after being here about a year. He went back and remarried and my grandpa adolph was the first born in the next batch. Grandpa lost his older brother (a russian solider) and married his brothers widow. He and his wife came over about 1898. Shortly after that most if not all of the germans were either killed or resetteled, deported or whatever. Some of my great uncles went back to the area in later years on business to see what was recoverable and said even the german cemitarys gravestones were taken and used in new barn fondations etc.
My grandpa lost that wife just as his dad lost his first wife and also had 6 young kids. Somehow he got hooked up with my grandmother through aquantances that just arrived in this country from his same old area of russia. She was a widow with a young boy, her husband also was killed and she and her brother, great uncle karl, who himself just got released from the russian army came over together. She also was full blooded german from the ukraine. Had they stayed they probley would have been killed.
The point of all this is to show that some survival situations arent all that far fetched. We are lucky in this country. Its kind of like its a recession when everyone else is out of a job. It`s a depression when YOU are! I heard brutal family storys secound hand where family hid out in the woods etc, ate oats out of horse turds while on the run etc. This stuff all happens on the other side of the world to someone else and most of us just are used to playing senerio`s in our minds like a fantasy game. Someday it will happen world wide.

[olyinaz]

Someday it will happen world wide.

When it's happened in the past it has not been world wide and there was always someplace that was nice or some people who were living large. In other words, those people in times of trials had HOPE.

The global scenario you suggest is one with no hope, or so it seems to me. If there is no hope of ever finding joy or enjoyment in life ever again, why live it here in this mess when the loving arms of our Lord awaits? In such a scenario all I can say is YOU CAN HAVE IT. I do not plan to be here or to prolong my or my suffering for no reason whatsoever. No thank you.

Oly

[ving-thorr]

Interesting thread!

I'd really like to hear from some of the other folks around the world on this forum! Is this whole "doomsday prepper" phenomenon a strictly american thing right now, or is it global? I suppose an israeli lives in this sort of mentality 24/7 ? Are these scenarios amusing to folks in the UK, Australia, and Scandinavia, "silly americans", or are they all too real where memories of WWII may still persist???

[Sixgun]

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. I'd rather spend $50 a week on ammo, reloading supplies, etc, than on lottery tickets, cigarettes or booze.

Ha! Thats how I live my life! It really boils down to the Boy Scout motto---"Be Prepared"

Most of the guys I work with live on the edge and it mostly comes from decisions they make, not happenings out of their control. They feel its more important to drive a $40,000 pick-up, drink at bars, smoke, eat a $10 lunch everyday, and take thrice yearly trips to the islands while I'm driving "Old Yeller", a 1989 Jeep (yea, I do have a newer one but it still only cost me 20'gs+-----new) and taking my vacations upstate and a once a year "poor man's hunt" in Colorado.

Funny thing, they all say they know where they are going when the going gets rough---I tell 'em they better have good body armor --------Sixgun

[Mescalero]

Six,
They won't make it out of Philly................. you & I both know it.

[tman]

When and IF{ I don't think it will}.The Blank hits the fan, The Internet commando's will be first in line calling for the Government to come to their rescue.

[olyinaz]

Most of the guys I work with live on the edge and it mostly comes from decisions they make, not happenings out of their control. They feel its more important to drive a $40,000 pick-up, drink at bars, smoke, eat a $10 lunch everyday, and take thrice yearly trips to the islands while I'm driving "Old Yeller", a 1989 Jeep (yea, I do have a newer one but it still only cost me 20'gs+-----new) and taking my vacations upstate and a once a year "poor man's hunt" in Colorado.

If everyone was like you the economny would collapse and the world would fall into a new Dark Age. Just kidding! You're right about most folks though!

Oly

[Sixgun]

If everyone was like you the economny would collapse and the world would fall into a new Dark Age. Just kidding! You're right about most folks though!
Oly

Oly,
Your right, especially after I tell you what I forgot to mention------------I have NEVER used a credit card in my life---and neither has my wife. My kids? They would not know what to do without 'em! ----------Sixgun

[JohndeFresno]

...I liked the MREs that I ate during the time I spent in the military. The chicken one's were questionable, not sure what it was. I have been looking for some MREs to stock up on for normal power loss, I lose power 2-3 times a year and would be nice to have something for just that reason on hand....
Steve

Me, too.

In my 11th Cavalry unit, we had primarily C-Rats from the Korean War (as evidenced by the dates on the boxes), and even the jellied eggs were palatable when slathered with Tabasco sauce that we "liberated" from the mess halls when we visited a base camp. But on certain missions, we had MRE's - the stuff that SF and LRRP (Recon) guys were issued - and they were terrific, I thought. What's wrong with us spoiled Americans, anyway? ...Never mind, that is partly what this is about...

My good friend and next door neighbor, a Mormon, rotates his stock and in fact eats the food that is stored. He and his family don't have complaints about any of it. They choose what they store and what they eat fresh, but they could survive quite well if the niceties of fresh valley tomatoes and fruits were no longer available. For instance, he describes the oats - is it cracked oats? - as being a crunchy breakfast treat, just as it is out of the can. His church (temple?) will sell the same food to outsiders, for a price that is not outrageous.

And if you check out online offerings at Costco and other places, you will find that the food is NOT moldy as depicted by some posters here; lots of the stuff has a shelf life of 30 years or a bit more. Again, in 1966 I was eating food from around 1953 or earlier - 13 year old stuff that was quite safe and more or less palatable. Most of it was quite tasty, in fact; but not as good as several of the MRE's when cooked with added water.

I tend to think that I won't be here when really bad stuff happens; but theologians argue this heatedly on both sides with a list of scriptural references. But as mentioned earlier, there was Katrina; the L.A. Watts riots; the Baltimore Martin Luther King riots; and many disasters that have not been mentioned such as floodings, hurricanes, Tsunamis that have been occurring with frequency.

One cannot take the ostrich point of view and just assume that God will yank them up to heaven the first time that a true disaster and pending starvation comes to their town. That is just plain Polyanna type thinking, methinks. Every disaster is not Armageddon, folks. And for those who profess to know something about Revelation, Daniel, and other end-time prophesies, they should check their facts; all prophecies warn of many woes and disasters that come with increasing frequency, like a woman's birth pangs, until the end comes. Simply put, there are some very tough times ahead, in my opinion.

So - what would you do when things get bad and you declare that you don't want to live in that kind of a world? How will you "check out?" Kill yourself? I think that is considered a sin, ain't it? Likewise, slowly starving to death doesn't seem to be the stylish way to go. Be prepared.

[tman]

Mre's suck! I'd rather shoot a dog and eat it

[JohndeFresno]

Which type? Dachsunds are pretty tender on the flanks; Great Pyranees are perhaps the juiciest overall. Despite Taco Bell's ads, Chihuahuas are stringy and uninteresting.

[olyinaz]

Which type? Dachsunds are pretty tender on the flanks; Great Pyranees are perhaps the juiciest overall. Despite Taco Bell's ads, Chihuahuas are stringy and uninteresting.

A pressure cooker or slooow in the crock pot is key with Chihuahuas. Same goes for cat.

Oly

[damienph]

Which type? Dachsunds are pretty tender on the flanks; Great Pyranees are perhaps the juiciest overall. Despite Taco Bell's ads, Chihuahuas are stringy and uninteresting.

A pressure cooker or slooow in the crock pot is key with Chihuahuas. Same goes for cat.

Oly

Especially tasty when cooked together, sort of like "Sweet & Sour"

[AJMD429]

Funny thing, they all say they know where they are going when the going gets rough---I tell 'em they better have good body armor --------Sixgun

Yeah, I get that too, and it's REALLY ANNOYING...!

[FLINT]

not sure why I am weighing in,

I'm a regular working guy with no family money or savings and have young kids and very little extra money on hand at any time. I had to quit most of my shooting when the last craze happened, I was just getting into reloading, but couldn't get anything, so I packed up all my reloading stuff in a box and it still sits in storage. I got such a sick feeling towards all the hype and hoarders and the whole mentality surrounding it.

I hope you guys and everyone else doesn't start stocking up again. I can't afford to stock up, I just can't especially with the crazy cost of ammo these days. All I can do is buy a box or two of ammo a year to hunt with and that's it - and when we get to a point where we can't do that - its just as bad for people like me as having ammo restrictions - but its almost worse, because its due to what are supposed to be fellow sportsmen who hoard instead of sharing - and not due to some perceived hypothetical problem that may or may not happen - kind of like the oil speculators inflating the price of oil.

anyways, like the op said, please don't stock up. if you are shooting, then shoot, but if you are stocking up hundreds of boxes to sit in your closet, then to me, you make this sport/life worse for everyone.

[Sixgun]

Flint,
I know it sucks but this is a capitalistic country. Lets pretend that 25% of all the reloaders are not going to "stock up". Or, lets go further and say 50% won't do it.---thats really optimistic! Well, the other 50% who are hoarders will catch on to the whole shabang and buy up what we don't buy and THEY will have the market. There will still be a shortage.

Thats all we Americans have to do is to "perceive" a shortage and the money comes out of the woodwork. Its gonna happen.

It keeps on going back to what we do best---capitalize

I remember about 20 years ago there was a rumor about the Feds cutting up military ammo boxes. In a month, none were to be had for what they used to go for--$5 They were up to 10-20--and stayed that way. Americans capitalizing once again. Just look at what gas has been doing -----------------------Sixgun

[Grizz]

kind of like the oil speculators inflating the price of oil

This is a huge misconception. There IS a speculative premium in the price of oil. But they aren't inflating the price, the continueing deflation of the dollar and the taxes superimposed by all the dotgov layers is what is inflating the price of oil.

The media-given misinformation on futures markets and the place of speculators in our economy is one of the most lied-about aspects of our economy.

Speculators can and will run markets if the weak-hand bureaucrats make it easy to do, but they are putting up CAPITAL and assuming RISK for the hope of PROFIT. They do not always make money, sometimes they lose it too, back into the CAPITAL pool that is carrying the RISK of future price structures.

If those speculators were NOT in the market, every sale of fuel would be a SPOT trade, cash at that time in that location. Then you can see prices run to the ozone and back again. Hourly. And you would never know when you woke up tomorrow if gas would cost 4$ or 40$ per gallon. That SMOOTHING of price fluctuation is due to the presence of the RISK CAPITAL supplied by the speculators.

If the effect of the failed admin economic policies, and lack of them, and completely unintelligent, scratch that, STOOPID management by imbeciles, scratch that, POLITICIANS who don't know anything about what they are doing or the unintended CONSEQUENCES of their INSANE laws, if that were out of the market in such a way that Americans knew that the gas price would not be sucking ALL their choices out of their wallets, then the prices would fall, and the fear premium of the speculators would shrink as well, and some of them might even leave off oil speculating and get into pork bellys or soy or corn even, another dotgov manipulated and crippled market.

Only EVIL SPECULATORS, like g.soros and the hedgemoney funds, are EVIL. Regular speculators are just normal guys, like us, trying to make a buck, or in the case that the OP presented, save a buck.

It's NOT the speculators, it is the govt overclass that is the wrecking ball.

[damienph]

I sympathize with you Flint but I honestly do believe that your "sick feeling" toward the hoarders and the hoard mentality is misdirected. The sick feeling should be toward the group(s) that would like to see our sport/hobby/passion go away. Those of us who stock up to ensure that we can continue to enjoy shooting and/or hunting are not causing this problem. The root of the problem is a growing portion of the population that does not think that private citizens should be permitted to bear arms and certainly should not be permitted to "manufacture" or store large quantities of ammunition for their (our) "arsenals".

AND, look at Europe and at Australia; YES it can happen here!

Lastly, bear in mind that one man's "hoard" is another man's "stock".

[JohndeFresno]

I sympathize with you Flint but I honestly do believe that your "sick feeling" toward the hoarders and the hoard mentality is misdirected. The sick feeling should be toward the group(s) that would like to see our sport/hobby/passion go away. Those of us who stock up to ensure that we can continue to enjoy shooting and/or hunting are not causing this problem. The root of the problem is a growing portion of the population that does not think that private citizens should be permitted to bear arms and certainly should not be permitted to "manufacture" or store large quantities of ammunition for their (our) "arsenals".

AND, look at Europe and at Australia; YES it can happen here!

Lastly, bear in mind that one man's "hoard" is another man's "stock".

Yup. Well said, Damien.

[sore shoulder]

Well, Yahoo front page today has a bunch of MIT graduate students making a computer model that predicts worldwide economic collapse in 2030. The fine young minds of our best and brightest reside at MIT and are not given to flights of fancy or pedantic propaganda.

[sore shoulder]

Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

My hero's fav qoute

[El Chivo]

one of the things that happened last time was we didn't have the choice of products we normally enjoy; for a while all I could get were mil-spec primers (unfortunately not double mil-spec) which, I found, were excellent primers that work great in guns with strong springs; in leverguns about a third would not go off the first time, and one or two wouldn't go off at all.

In a real shortage I might not be able to get my chosen powder or bullet. One of my issues about experimenting with loads is having stuff left over, I'm not looking forward to buying a substitute powder and then having to use it up later.

Remember, ammo isn't expensive, it's your money that's worthless.

[1894c]

... :)